How do you propose discussing immigration without sounding like a racist/nazi/xenophobe?

[Brown_Pride]

Oh come on. Y'all seriously believe immigration isn't a national concern? There isn't one serious politician who would agree with that, including Obama, Clinton or Sanders. There are 11.5 million illegal immigrants residing in the US, that's not some insignificant number when it comes to economics and the employment rate. Immigration reform is a bipartisan issue, both sides of the aisle acknowledge that. The American immigration apparatus is obviously broken.

considering it's been shown to be a marginal benefit in some cases or a marginal negative in some cases the key word is marginal. Politicians have to say it's an issue, similar to the way politicians used to have to say weed was a bad thing. Again, it's in the same vein as j walking. Is it illegal? YES! Is it destroying the country? No. Otherwise it would have been destroyed ages ago. There's a reason that when conservatives ruled the land they did dikk about the situation...

I will agree the apparatus is broken though, it most certainly is.

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

I completely support heavily penalizing companies that do this.

Well thats tough. International trade deals never work for 100% of people.

So essentially you are in favor of supporting labor tariffs to protect lazy entitled American workers shytty job performance?

Makes a lot of sense actually

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

So essentially you are in favor of supporting labor tariffs to protect lazy entitled American workers shytty job performance?

Makes a lot of sense actually

I mean...isn't that what all nations want?

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

considering it's been shown to be a marginal benefit in some cases or a marginal negative in some cases the key word is marginal. Politicians have to say it's an issue, similar to the way politicians used to have to say weed was a bad thing. Again, it's in the same vein as j walking. Is it illegal? YES! Is it destroying the country? No. Otherwise it would have been destroyed ages ago. There's a reason that when conservatives ruled the land they did dikk about the situation...

I will agree the apparatus is broken though, it most certainly is.

I think you're being too nice here.

it IS destroying the community in some places.

The people who are already here, who are already poor can't even have the opportunity to fill these niches BECAUSE of illegal immigrants.

I don't know if some of ya'll live in border states, but the effects are definitely real in lower and middle classes among small business owners.

 

[theworldismine13]

So essentially you are in favor of supporting labor tariffs to protect lazy entitled American workers shytty job performance?

Makes a lot of sense actually

Yeah pretty much, the "tariffs" should stay until an agreement is worked out between both countries and employment rules are regularized across both countries

That is the proper way to do it

People try to take the moral high ground by being all sympathetic toward illegal aliens when the actual moral high ground is discussing the laws in the countries the illegal aliens are coming from

There should be free movement of labor.....across an even playing field

 

[Mowgli]

Support bills behind the scenes to give more money for deportation and support the hiring of more agents to deport people.

Support greater penalties for businesses hiring illegal immigrants.

People dont even know George Bushes no child left behind actually ended up leaving behind black and latino students, which Obama eventually overturned behind the scenes.

Everything is done in the cut.

Then watch as economies and communities built around immigrant labor crumble.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

Honest question...do you really think if the USA gave California, Texas and Arizona back to Mexico that Mexicans still wouldn't come into the country illegally? They'd just be running through Utah and Colorado instead.

Dudes ignored the fukk outta this

@EastCoastNaga

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

I mean...isn't that what all nations want?

If so its no wonder the most protectionist countries are in the economic doldrums.

No, from what I understand nations want competitive advantages. This is why they play games with shyt like currency values and why we spend so much effort in exerting our will across the globe. Look at that South China Sea shyt. That is all business.

Yeah pretty much, the "tariffs" should stay until an agreement is worked out between both countries and employment rules are regularized across both countries

That is the proper way to do it

People try to take the moral high ground by being all sympathetic toward illegal aliens when the actual moral high ground is discussing the laws in the countries the illegal aliens are coming from

There should be free movement of labor.....across an even playing field

What difference do employment laws make in a country with no employment...... no economic agreement can equalize opportunity, which is the only reason illegals are crossing the border. If you want Latinos to stop coming to the US u have to give them reason to stay in their countries. US is somewhat doing that with Mexico, with all the manufacturing investment we have there, of course at the expense of our own manufacturing employment prospects :fransic:. And people from Central America are basically seeking political asylum. IMO I'd rather have those folks here making money and paying taxes within US borders than be sending billions of dollars in investment and military efforts to try and rebuild their countries, if those are the only two choices. @ the US being on an equal playing field with war torn Central American countries, you must be stupiod.

 

[AyahuascaSippin]

Dudes ignored the fukk outta this

@EastCoastNaga

@Brown_Pride summed it up pretty succinctly, the weed comparison was on point.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

If so its no wonder the most protectionist countries are in the economic doldrums.

No, from what I understand nations want competitive advantages. This is why they play games with shyt like currency values and why we spend so much effort in exerting our will across the globe. Look at that South China Sea shyt. That is all business..

And to be clear, I see globalism as an inevitability, but no one is really willing to risk being protectionist for the sake of experimentation.

Only a few places could really try it and win, like the USA. We have the land to close off and do it our own, but at the risk of pulling out around the world and watching it fall apart without us.

What difference do employment laws make in a country with no employment...... no economic agreement can equalize opportunity, which is the only reason illegals are crossing the border. If you want Latinos to stop coming to the US u have to give them reason to stay in their countries. US is somewhat doing that with Mexico, with all the manufacturing investment we have there, of course at the expense of our own manufacturing employment prospects :fransic:. And people from Central America are basically seeking political asylum. IMO I'd rather have those folks here making money and paying taxes within US borders than be sending billions of dollars in investment and military efforts to try and rebuild their countries, if those are the only two choices. @ the US being on an equal playing field with war torn Central American countries, you must be stupiod

But again, we're not addressing the immediate concern.

Why are we permitting people to just openly break the law?

If you're an illegal immigrant, you literally shouldn't be here.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

@Brown_Pride summed it up pretty succinctly, the weed comparison was on point.

No it wasn't.

To say "weed hasn't destroyed the world yet" isn't a fair comparison. No single thing destroys the world at once...unless we're talking nukes.

Its a disingenuous and lazy attempt at making a point.

 

[theworldismine13]

If so its no wonder the most protectionist countries are in the economic doldrums.

No, from what I understand nations want competitive advantages. This is why they play games with shyt like currency values and why we spend so much effort in exerting our will across the globe. Look at that South China Sea shyt. That is all business.


What difference do employment laws make in a country with no employment...... no economic agreement can equalize opportunity, which is the only reason illegals are crossing the border. If you want Latinos to stop coming to the US u have to give them reason to stay in their countries. US is somewhat doing that with Mexico, with all the manufacturing investment we have there, of course at the expense of our own manufacturing employment prospects :fransic:. And people from Central America are basically seeking political asylum. IMO I'd rather have those folks here making money and paying taxes within US borders than be sending billions of dollars in investment and military efforts to try and rebuild their countries, if those are the only two choices. @ the US being on an equal playing field with war torn Central American countries, you must be stupiod.

The reason there is no low employment is because of the laws, that's the premise that I'm starting from

I wasn't suggesting it's something easy or something that happens overnight, in fact it's very hard but working to regularize employment laws and financial laws across the Americas would provide vast opportunities to poor people in the Americas

I'm just explaining why immigration laws should be enforced even though they impede free movement

I wasn't suggesting sending any money to those countries, I'm suggesting reforming the laws to increase private investments and entrepreneurialism and increase the free flow of goods and labor across all the Americas

Sending money back is neither nor there, if somebody wants to come to the us to send money back they should go to a us embassy and apply for a visa, if they decide to come without a visa they should be deported

 

[Red Shield]

And to be clear, I see globalism as an inevitability, but no one is really willing to risk being protectionist for the sake of experimentation.

Only a few places could really try it and win, like the USA. We have the land to close off and do it our own, but at the risk of pulling out around the world and watching it fall apart without us.



But again, we're not addressing the immediate concern.

Why are we permitting people to just openly break the law?

If you're an illegal immigrant, you literally shouldn't be here.

Not so sure about it being an inevitability... too many people and too much old bad blood...

Maybe it will happen, but not in our lifetimes

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

The reason there is no low employment is because of the laws, that's the premise that I'm starting from

I wasn't suggesting it's something easy or something that happens overnight, in fact it's very hard but working to regularize employment laws and financial laws across the Americas would provide vast opportunities to poor people in the Americas

I'm just explaining why immigration laws should be enforced even though they impede free movement

I wasn't suggesting sending any money to those countries, I'm suggesting reforming the laws to increase private investments and entrepreneurialism and increase the free flow of goods and labor across all the Americas

Sending money back is neither nor there, if somebody wants to come to the us to send money back they should go to a us embassy and apply for a visa, if they decide to come without a visa they should be deported

I feel like you are grossly misinterpreting what I'm saying.

Folks are crossing the border because employment opportunities are slim to none back home and better here. But for people here employment opportunities are becoming scarce as well. So for those countries as well as ours the best course of action is to increase employment within one's borders. If people are trying to border jump you are too late. It's like trying to stop crime with tougher policing. Curing symptoms won't fix underlying causes.

Laws won't increase investments in countries that have no money to invest. If the countries had money they could employ their people, and those people wouldn't be border jumping. Only countries in NA with money to invest are the US, Canada and Mexico- all of which have their own employment issues that take priority. US money building factories in Mexico is jobs leaving the US. That's a net zero solution. I wasn't talking about people here sending money back, though it is documented that many poor countries' economies depend heavily on foreign inflows between relatives.

Bottom line, you want less illegal immigration into the US, you have to give the folks trying to get in a reason not to leave their countries in the form of political stability, low crime and gainful employment. Those things can't be created by writing a law. If it were that simple it would have been done already.

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

And to be clear, I see globalism as an inevitability, but no one is really willing to risk being protectionist for the sake of experimentation.

Only a few places could really try it and win, like the USA. We have the land to close off and do it our own, but at the risk of pulling out around the world and watching it fall apart without us.

We have already tried protectionism and seen its failures. All protectionism does is blunt competitiveness. It's a political feel good measure that does damage pretty quickly. Globalism isn't an inevitability, it's here.

But again, we're not addressing the immediate concern.

Why are we permitting people to just openly break the law?

If you're an illegal immigrant, you literally shouldn't be here.

Well, like I said, we can get as tough on illegal immigration as we want, but ultimately if those folks want to leave their countries and come here, short of killing people trying to cross the border nothing is going to stop them. Only way to deal with this issue, or ANY issue, is to address the root cause, not just the symptoms that resonate with our xenophobia. So should we have tougher enforcement on immigration laws? Eh I guess. Anyone who thinks that's going to solve the actual problem is mistaken though.