How has Jimmy Dore got away with pulling a Dennis Miller? Dude is basically MAGA now! What happened?!

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Nixon signed off on those things but on many of them he was pushed to sign them by Congressional Democrats, environmental activists and so on.

Whereas many times environmental activists pushed Obama do to things he didn't do shyt, not even in areas where he could have moved unilaterally as an executive and didn't need Congressional approval (which he had all that he needed of for the first 2 years regardless). Are you aware of how pissed off environmentalists were during Obama's tenure considering how the EPA and Endangered Species Act were being used? Nixon created those out of nothing when he didn't have to, while Obama had the power to use them and severely underplayed his hand.




Also, if you're counting Nixon's visit to China as a "liberal" accomplishment then does the Cuban Thaw and Obama's visit to Cuba count as a "liberal" accomplishment too?

Of course it counts. One of the few pieces of Obama's very short list and for most Americans rather pathetic in impact compared to Nixon's list. By the very next election the right-wing mainstream Dems were weaponizing Cuba as a great boogeyman again.




Furthermore, Nixon's reason for signing some of those "liberal" policies was a political strategy not because he genuinely believed them. Nixon was a racist, do you think that he genuinely believed in "affirmative action"?

Was he the slightest bit more racist than LBJ or Joe Biden? :skip:

White racists have passed significant civil rights legislation at mulitple points in history (Lincoln and LBJ being the two most obvious examples). Being a racist doesn't necessarily mean the person doesn't support fair laws, and their actual actions in office are 10x more important to me than "was a very nice guy but didn't do jack shyt".

On Civil Rights issues Nixon did multiple things that were anti-Black, including opposing busing and slow-playing desegregation. But wait....Biden opposed bussing too and the entire Democratic party has completely given up on bussing as well as desegregation!



But while Nixon (and Biden) were publicly opposing those initiatives, Nixon was also doing a great deal positive in civil rights and I don't see evidence that he had to. Here's one quite objective analysis of how his positive moves offset his public opposition to bussing and forced desegregation:


"Yet in civil rights policy, as elsewhere, Nixon’ policies were too variable, unpredictable, and even contradictory to sustain a characterization as racial reactionary. One of Nixon’s earliest initiatives as president, acting on his campaign support for “black capitalism”, was to create in the Commerce Department an Office of Minority Business Enterprise. During his first administration, Nixon sent budgets to Congress that increased agency appropriations for civil rights enforcement from $75 million in 1969 to $2.6 billion by 1972. Despite his anti-busing rhetoric, Nixon supported the quiet but effective efforts of George Shultz, first as labor secretary and then as OMB director, to coordinate peaceful school desegregation throughout the South. Partly as a consequence, the proportion of black children attending all-black schools in the South fell from 68 percent in 1968 to 8 percent in 1972. Nixon also supported a shift in the Bureau of Indian Affairs towards self-determination policies for tribal Indians, and continued (grudgingly) his long-established support for the Equal Rights Amendment.

Nixon’s most radical, and puzzling, departure from traditional Republican principles, however, came with his promotion of the Labor Department’s plan for minority hiring preferences in federally assisted contracts. The Republican party since its founding in the Civil War era had promoted government support for business expansion and opposed government regulation of private enterprise. Since 1964…Republicans had agreed that the Civil Rights Act, like the Constitution, was color blind. The Nixon administration’s Philadelphia Plan, however, required race conscious employment policies to compensate for past discrimination."



It took a big political fight to make it happen, with an initial failure to get it through followed by Republicans and liberal dems forming a coalition to override moderate/conservative dems, and a Supreme Court challenge needing to be overcome. Was it political? Of course. But consevative Southern dems fought against it because they wanted to support White labor, and Biden likely would have included himself among their number if he had been in office at the time. Nixon isn't some hero, and he's not a good president. It's just indicative of how pathetic the Democratic party has been that their leaders can be compared to him.
 
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jilla82

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Obama himself said that Nixon was more liberal than he was, and Obama was more liberal than Clinton or Biden. So what does that make the Dems in the last 30 years?

They went conservative on welfare. They went conservative on government regulation of banks and corporations. They went conservative on war and went conservative on the Patriot Act, went conservative on illegal detentions and drone attacks. When the conservatives passed regressive shyt like NCLB and tax cuts for the rich, dems jumped the fence to help them get that shyt through. They've hardly done jack shyt on racial issues, hardly done jack shyt on environmental issues, and even waited until the Supreme Court forced gay marriage before they got on board with it.

For the last 30 years, in their best moments the Dems have just been a centrist bulwark against the far right that took over the Republicans, and at worst they've even helped the right with their agenda at times. The # of actual liberals in power in the Democratic party has not been nearly enough to get any actual legislation passed or shyt done other than preserve the status quo rather than making things even worse.
all of yall feel that way about your parties

Maga Republicans think the right has gone left
the left thinks the left has gone right

yall just love cheerleading political parties is all
 

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all of yall feel that way about your parties

Maga Republicans think the right has gone left
the left thinks the left has gone right

yall just love cheerleading political parties is all


Which political party am I cheerleading? :dahell:


It's objectively undeniable that in the 1980s Reagan took the Republican party (and the entire country's economy) way the fukk to the right. Taxes for the rich were slashed, corporate regulation decreased markedly while labor protections were annilated. When Clinton came to power, he called himself an economically conservative "New Democrat" and tried to match Reagan by dragging the Democratic party to the right himself, passing even more corporate deregulation, "Welfare Reform", and new free trade/outsourcing that helped corporate heads more than anyone else.


That list didn't even remember to mention the crime bills Clinton signed or his viterolic attacks on illegal immigration with massive increases in enforcement and deportation.

Bush and Obama doubled down on both of their legacies, even when Obama had an enormous opportunity to move things to the left with the 2008 collapse and Democratic supermajority that soon followed, instead he choose to bail out the banks, hold no one accountable, and help the American poor and working-class LESS than his advisors recommended.

Since 1980, economic inequality has increased dramatically in America. The rich are way better off while labor unions are fukked. Taxes way down from the 1960s, and so are wages. And from 1980-2020, both parties were responsible for passing the laws that made that happen.


On what issues has either party gone left? I'm not talking language and tokenism, what have they actually signed? Desegregation was given up on by the Democrats since the 1970s and no one has tried to push it again. Environmentalism has completely stalled since the 1970s with little forward progress. Obama straight up bragged about how much he had increased oil drilling and all the new pipelines he built, and Obama's EPA put more environmental activists in jail than polluters. The Democrats went totally regressive on crime and mass incarceration, finally pulled back a little and then immediately got spooked and want to jump back to regressive again. Health care wasn't reformed at all, it was just expanded following was originally was a Hertiage Foundation plan (first instituted by Mitt Romney) while still remaining just as corporate. I guess you have....LGBT issues?
 
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jilla82

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Which political party am I cheerleading? :dahell:


It's objectively undeniable that in the 1980s Reagan took the Republican party (and the entire country's economy) way the fukk to the right. Taxes for the rich were slashed, corporate regulation decreased markedly while labor protections were annilated. When Clinton came to power, he called himself an economically conservative "New Democrat" and tried to match Reagan by dragging the Democratic party to the right himself, passing even more corporate deregulation, "Welfare Reform", and new free trade/outsourcing that helped corporate heads more than anyone else.


That list didn't even remember to mention the crime bills Clinton signed or his viterolic attacks on illegal immigration with massive increases in enforcement and deportation.

Bush and Obama doubled down on both of their legacies, even when Obama had an enormous opportunity to move things to the left with the 2008 collapse and Democratic supermajority that soon followed, instead he choose to bail out the banks, hold no one accountable, and help the American poor and working-class LESS than his advisors recommended.

Since 1980, economic inequality has increased dramatically in America. The rich are way better off while labor unions are fukked. Taxes way down from the 1960s, and so are wages. And from 1980-2020, both parties were responsible for passing the laws that made that happen.


On what issues has either party gone left? I'm not talking language and tokenism, what have they actually signed? Desegregation was given up on by the Democrats since the 1970s and no one has tried to push it again. Environmentalism has completely stalled since the 1970s with little forward progress. The Democrats went totally regressive on crime and mass incarceration, finally pulled back a little and then immediately got spooked and want to jump back to regressive again. Health care wasn't reformed at all, it was just expanded following was originally was a Hertiage Foundation plan (first instituted by Mitt Romney) while still remaining just as corporate. I guess you have....LGBT issues?
man im not a political person...I dont care about nun of that.
Im just telling you what I hear/see political people in general say.

IMO life has never been easier for people with half a brain.

The question is...what do we do with the dummies?
 

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Actually, Obama said in many ways that Nixon was more liberal than him, and you said we shouldn't listen to Obama. :heh:
Another poster already clarified to you what Obama actually said and you even agreed.

Also, everything that Obama said was 100% accurate? Well, nice to know. Your postings over the years have said quite the opposite :heh:
 

mastermind

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Another poster already clarified to you what Obama actually said and you even agreed.
Yeah breh, I just said that in my post. :heh:

Also, everything that Obama said was 100% accurate?
No, but my reading of what you have said in this thread is 100% accurate. :russ:

And again, you shared a chart while having no idea how they came up with the result. I asked you a couple of times to share it, and even questioned it and you've just ignored it because you found something from WaPo--I know the chart came from a book, but you linked it from that site--and don't know how they came up with the figures.
 

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When he was TYT, his views seemed pretty leftist.

I know a lot of folks have their opinions on Kyle Kulinski. But I think it was him who said that Jimmy Dore was always chasing the bag. Even if it meant dropping his political beliefs. That he would of sold out asap if he was in the same situation as cenk ( When cenk was hosting on MSNBC 10 years ago).
 
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