HOW in the hell was Pac better than Nas at rapping?

[Northern Son]

I'm not seeing the complexity...

but you mean rhyming like this...

Tupac - Troublesome 96 ( Uncensored)(unofficial video) - YouTube


also if you want to use this argument of naS using "complex multies" you cant escape the FACT that Twista and Eminem are better than naS... by fukcin ENDLESS MILES

My bad I forgot you're actually a Nas hater/Jay-Z fanboy. fukk Eminem and Twista. They have nothing to do with this conversation.

Nas would obliterate Pac in a rap battle. You would have to be extremely delusional to think otherwise.

 

[intilectual recipricol]

My bad I forgot you're actually a Nas hater/Jay-Z fanboy. fukk Eminem and Twista. They have nothing to do with this conversation.

Nas would obliterate Pac in a rap battle. You would have to be extremely delusional to think otherwise.

Well, yeah, they do have something to do with it. It shows how incredibly dumb and biased naS stans are. They'll try and use one argument (that isnt even true) to say naS was/is better than Pac... but when I use THE EXACT SAME ARGUMENT better than naS stans to show someone else is better than naS they react like you just did....

This wasnt about battles... its about being "lyrically" better. You provided your definition and I crushed your shyt easily and YOU know it.

 

[Northern Son]

Well, yeah, they do have something to do with it. It shows how incredibly dumb and biased naS stans are. They'll try and use one argument (that isnt even true) to say naS was/is better than Pac... but when I use THE EXACT SAME ARGUMENT better than naS stans to show someone else is better than naS they react like you just did....

This wasnt about battles... its about being "lyrically" better. You provided your definition and I crushed your shyt easily and YOU know it.

What the fukk are you talking about? I said in my initial post that I thoroughly believe Pac>>>>>>>>Nas. It's just a fact that Nas is more articulate/graceful in his expression. He has a much larger vocabulary and artfully uses similes and entendres. Pac however is a better artist and has stronger substance/content. Every other word from 2Pac was "motherfukker", "Alize", "enemieeeeeeeees" or "Hennessy".

You're hellbent on not giving Nas any credit which is completely ridiculous.

 

[intilectual recipricol]

What the fukk are you talking about? I said in my initial post that I thoroughly believe Pac>>>>>>>>Nas. It's just a fact that Nas is more articulate/graceful in his expression. He has a much larger vocabulary and artfully uses similes and entendres. Pac however is a better artist and has stronger substance/content. Every other word from 2Pac was "motherfukker", "Alize", "enemieeeeeeeees" or "Hennessy".

You're hellbent on not giving Nas any credit which is completely ridiculous.

Well, no. Again, I give naS credit for what he's good at: storytelling. And nothing else because literally everything else he does is grade A garbage. LOL @ you NOW tryin to shyt on Pac. I have always been real and never said Pac was a great lyricist... the point being neither is naS. No matter what you post from naS, unless its a story track, I can post a more lyrical and plain better Pac track.

naS vocab? he just throws words together in sentences that dont make sense. He has the vocab of a 7th grade drop out. Just because he uses words doesnt make his vocab better if hes using them incorrectly.

"nacho cheese, Im Castro" is not lyricism... and Canibus' vocab is FAR GREATER than naS' plus he actually uses words correctly (but sadly I'd rather listen to naS than that cornball)...

Artfully uses similies and entendres? Hardly, but Lupe is lightyears ahead of naS in that category so much so that why discuss it...(crushed your shyt again)

So far using your definitions we have concluded at least 4 rappers are technically better than naS. Care to provide us with some more definitions or rationale?

 

[inndaskKy]

What the fukk are you talking about? I said in my initial post that I thoroughly believe Pac>>>>>>>>Nas. It's just a fact that Nas is more articulate/graceful in his expression. He has a much larger vocabulary and artfully uses similes and entendres. Pac however is a better artist and has stronger substance/content. Every other word from 2Pac was "motherfukker", "Alize", "enemieeeeeeeees" or "Hennessy".

You're hellbent on not giving Nas any credit which is completely ridiculous.

Nevermind his Nas hating. I give Nas full credits for being lyrical and have Illmatic in my top 5 hip hop albums of all time. But I'm saying Nas isn't that much more lyrical than Pac was. It's just that with Pac, the first thing people associate with him are certain songs and phrases but they don't stop to consider the scope of his entire work. Some of Pac's signature songs tend to be less lyrical which is why people associate him with a simple rhyming style. But the fact of the matter is that Pac has used many different styles in different songs even in the short span of his career. Some of them more lyrical than others. There are loads of lyrical Pac verses that can hang with Nas' level of rhyming.

I think when people prefer Illmatic verses they just prefer the fast flow and New York sound, coupled with the fact that it was lyrical. Pac has songs where he was similarly lyrical but just used a different sound to go with it. I grant you that Nas switches his vocab up more often than Pac but that doesn't really say anything about the rhyme schemes themselves.

You posted Memory Lane as an example of Nas being lyrical. Here's a Pac song with roughly the same sort of content (reminiscing about early childhood life on the block) which is lyrical too. What's the difference other than the fact that Memory Lane is a more famous track?

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeUqG97j0cs"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eeUqG97j0cs[/ame]

EDIT: By the way, the Nas song you posted has him mentioning Alize and you fault Pac for talking about Alize. Kinda funny.

 

[Northern Son]

Well, no. Again, I give naS credit for what he's good at: storytelling. And nothing else because literally everything else he does is grade A garbage. LOL @ you NOW tryin to shyt on Pac. I have always been real and never said Pac was a great lyricist... the point being neither is naS. No matter what you post from naS, unless its a story track, I can post a more lyrical and plain better Pac track.

naS vocab? he just throws words together in sentences that dont make sense. He has the vocab of a 7th grade drop out. Just because he uses words doesnt make his vocab better if hes using them incorrectly.

"nacho cheese, Im Castro" is not lyricism... and Canibus' vocab is FAR GREATER than naS' plus he actually uses words correctly (but sadly I'd rather listen to naS than that cornball)...

Artfully uses similies and entendres? Hardly, but Lupe is lightyears ahead of naS in that category so much so that why discuss it...(crushed your shyt again)

So far using your definitions we have concluded at least 4 rappers are technically better than naS. Care to provide us with some more definitions or rationale?

You are hellbent on burying Nas. I NEVER shat on Pac nor did I EVER put Nas in some sort of elite pantheon of lyricists (although I do believe he's up there). fukk are you bringing all these other rappers into the conversation when it's between Nas and Pac (two people) . I truly don't care enough about Nas to continue repeating myself but fact of the matter is Nas has a way stronger rhyme scheme than Pac and artfully expresses himself with wordplay (It Ain't Hard To Tell for example) whereas Pac has better content/direction but a weak vocabulary. Call it a cop out but I'm done here, you're clearly anti-Nas beyond reason although I'd like to see you post "a more lyrical [ha!] and plain better Pac track [won't really argue that, he makes better music than Nas generally speaking]".

 

[intilectual recipricol]

Nevermind his Nas hating. I give Nas full credits for being lyrical and have Illmatic in my top 5 hip hop albums of all time. But I'm saying Nas isn't that much more lyrical than Pac was. It's just that with Pac, the first thing people associate with him are certain songs and phrases but they don't stop to consider the scope of his entire work. Some of Pac's signature songs tend to be less lyrical which is why people associate him with a simple rhyming style. But the fact of the matter is that Pac has used many different styles in different songs even in the short span of his career. Some of them more lyrical than others. There are loads of lyrical Pac verses that can hang with Nas' level of rhyming.

I think when people prefer Illmatic verses they just prefer the fast flow and New York sound, coupled with the fact that it was lyrical. Pac has songs where he was similarly lyrical but just used a different sound to go with it. I grant you that Nas switches his vocab up more often than Pac but that doesn't really say anything about the rhyme schemes themselves.

You posted Memory Lane as an example of Nas being lyrical. Here's a Pac song with roughly the same sort of content (reminiscing about early childhood life on the block) which is lyrical too. What's the difference other than the fact that Memory Lane is a more famous track?

2Pac - Nothin' But Love: [R U Still Down? (Remember Me)] - YouTube

I am not hating
unless I'm also hating on Pac too since like you I said they are about the same lyrically. How you define lyricism is on you. To me, neither is all that impressive lyrically. But no matter how you gauge lyricism, the fact remains that naS and Pac aint far from each other... and neither is seein niccaz like Lu with a pen.

naS bein better than Pac lyrically is just some shyt people say without backup.

 

[JustCKing]

No.... People been sayin naS is "technically" better, but havent shown it to be true with the actual lyrics. Shyts read exactly the same.

I think the technically better has more to do with the rhyme schmes and what not than the overall songs. I don't agree that Nas is technically better than Pac, just more complex. For example, this verse:

I never brag, how real I keep it cause it's the best secret
I rock a vest prestigious, Cuban link flooded Jesus
In a Lex watching Kathie Lee and Regis
My actions are one with the seasons
A Tec squeezing executioner, winter time I rock a fur
Mega popular center of attraction
Climaxing my bytches they be laughing
They high from sniffing coke off a twenty-cent Andrew Jackson
City lights spark a New York night
Rossi and Martini sipping, Sergio Tacchini flipping mad pies
Low price, I blow dice and throw them
Forty-five by my scrotum, manifest the Do or Die slogan
My nikkas roll in ten M3's
Twenty Gods popping wheelies on Kawasaki's
Hip-hop's got me on some ol', spraying shots like a drum roll
Blanking out and never miscount the shells my gun hold
I don't stunt, I regulate
Henny and Sprite, I separate
Watching crab nikkas marinate
I'm all about tecs and good jooks and sex
Israelite books, holding government names from Ness
MC's are crawling out, every hole in the slum
You be aight like blood money in a pimp's cum



Yo, my mind is seein through your design like blind fury
I shine jewelry sipping on crushed grapes, we lust papes
And push cakes inside the casket at Just wake
It's sickening, he just finished bidding upstate
And now the projects, is talking that somebody gotta die shyt
It's logic, as long as it's nobody that's in my clique
My man Smoke know how to expand coke in Mr. Coffee
Feds cost me two mill' to get the system off me
Life's a bytch but God-forbid the bytch divorce me
I'll be flooded with ice so hellfire can't scorch me
Cuban cigars meeting Foxy at the Mosque
Moving cars, your top papi Señor Escobar




^^^ These are two examples of Nas using complex rhyme schemes with internal rhymes and multi-syllables. He does this a lot throughout It Was Written.

Pac wasn't as complex and mostly stuck to basic rhyme patterns although he has several instances where he switches it up most notably this verse:

With all this extra stressing
The question I wonder is after death, after my last breath
When will I finally get to rest through this suppression?
They punish the people that's asking questions
And those that possess, steal from the ones without possessions
The message I stress: to make it stop study your lessons
Don't settle for less - even the genius asks his questions
Be grateful for blessings
Don't ever change, keep your essence
The power is in the people and politics we address
Always do your best, don't let the pressure make you panic
And when you get stranded
And things don't go the way you planned it
Dreaming of riches, in a position of making a difference
Politicians and hypocrites, they don't wanna listen
If I'm insane, it's the fame made a brother change
It wasn't nothing like the game
It's just me against the world


This verse is probably more typical of a Pac verse in terms of rhyme scheme:

They say p*ssy and paper is poetry power and pistols
Plotting on murderin motherfukkers 'fore they get you
Picturing pitiful punk nikkas copping pleas
Puffing weed as I position myself to clock G's
My enemies scatter in suicidal situations
Never to witness the wicked shyt that they was facin
Pockets is packed with presidents, pursue your riches
Evading the playa hating tricks, while hitting switches
bytches is bad-mouth, cause brawlin motherfukkers is bold
But y'all some hoes, the game should be sewed
I'm sick of psychotic society somebody save me
Addicted to drama so even mama couldn't raise me
Even the preacher and all my teachers couldn't reach me
I run in the streets and puffing weed wit my peeps
I'm ducking the cops, I hit the weed as I'm clutching my Glock
nikkas is hot when I hit the block, what if I die tonight

^^^ One of the most overlooked and underrated aspects of Pac's lyricism is the use of alliteration. This verse is packed with alliteration. The rhyme scheme may be basic in comparison to Nas's, but how can anyone deny that Pac was lyrical?

Verses like those is why I put Pac and Nas on the same level lyrically.

 

[intilectual recipricol]

@JustCKing

exactly, youre saying what I'm sayin... kind of, you said naS was more complex, but then posted Pac verses that refute it... and thats what I am saying. No matter what cats post from naS, I can refute it with a Pac verse.

"Heavy In the Game"

Now how can I explain how this game laced me, plus with this fame
I got enemies do anything to break me, my attitude changed
Got to the point where I was driven, twenty-four/seven
Money's my mission, just a nikka trying to make a living
These busta tricks don't want no mail
They spending they riches on scandelous bytches
and stay petrified in jail
It's hell, plus all the dealers want a meal ticket
Jealous-ass bytches, player-hating but we still kick it
Always keep my eyes on the prize, watch the police
Seen so much murder, neighborhoods getting no sleep
But still, I get my money on major, continuously
Communicating through my pager, nikkaz know me
Don't have no homies cause they jealous, I hustle solo
Cause when I'm broke I got no time for the fellas, listen
Ain't nothing poppin 'bout no broke nikka, ain't no joke
fukk what they say and get your dough nikka
Heavy in the game

 

[inndaskKy]

^^^ These are two examples of Nas using complex rhyme schemes with internal rhymes and multi-syllables. He does this a lot throughout It Was Written.


Pac wasn't as complex and mostly stuck to basic rhyme patterns although he has several instances where he switches it up most notably this verse:

With all this extra stressing
The question I wonder is after death, after my last breath
When will I finally get to rest through this suppression?
They punish the people that's asking questions
And those that possess, steal from the ones without possessions
The message I stress: to make it stop study your lessons
Don't settle for less - even the genius asks his questions
Be grateful for blessings
Don't ever change, keep your essence
The power is in the people and politics we address
Always do your best, don't let the pressure make you panic
And when you get stranded
And things don't go the way you planned it
Dreaming of riches, in a position of making a difference
Politicians and hypocrites, they don't wanna listen
If I'm insane, it's the fame made a brother change
It wasn't nothing like the game
It's just me against the world

I think this type of Pac verse is a lot more common than people think though. You mentioned IWW. I'll say RUSD? is full of this type of rhyming by Pac too. In fact, internal rhyming is one of the signature Pac techniques.
The thing about Nas' verses that seems to impress people more is that he throws in a whole bunch of nouns and names in a quick tempo and uses less grammatical sentences in his rhymes if you will. He talks more in an abstract way whereas Pac usually spells things out in whole sentences. That doesn't mean Nas is more lyrical however.

The point (or challenge) is this: you can't find a sequence of like 4 or 6 bars by Nas that uses a rhyme pattern that can't be found in any Pac verses. That is why it is wrong to say Pac was lyrically weak whereas Nas is a lyrical master or some shyt.

 

[Mac Casper]

I think this type of Pac verse is a lot more common than people think though. You mentioned IWW. I'll say RUSD? is full of this type of rhyming by Pac too. In fact, internal rhyming is one of the signature Pac techniques.
The thing about Nas' verses that seems to impress people more is that he throws in a whole bunch of nouns and names in a quick tempo and uses less grammatical sentences in his rhymes if you will. He talks more in an abstract way whereas Pac usually spells things out in whole sentences. That doesn't mean Nas is more lyrical however.

The point (or challenge) is this: you can't find a sequence of like 4 or 6 bars by Nas that uses a rhyme pattern that can't be found in any Pac verses. That is why it is wrong to say Pac was lyrically weak whereas Nas is a lyrical master or some shyt.

This man can see through the facade

 

[inndaskKy]

^^ Like a fallen angel, standin in the presence of God.

 

[FreshAIG]

jadakiss is more lyrical than jeezy


who makes better music




see why this nas is morr lyrical shyt doesnt make him a better artist..



nas stans need to something to validate there dude i understand but its a dumb argument.. nas will never get the love/respect that pac has

Jadakiss. Terrible comparison

 

[mobbinfms]

What the fukk are you talking about? I said in my initial post that I thoroughly believe Pac>>>>>>>>Nas. It's just a fact that Nas is more articulate/graceful in his expression. He has a much larger vocabulary and artfully uses similes and entendres. Pac however is a better artist and has stronger substance/content. Every other word from 2Pac was "motherfukker", "Alize", "enemieeeeeeeees" or "Hennessy".

You're hellbent on not giving Nas any credit which is completely ridiculous.

QFT

 

[Techniec]

PAC made better music