HOW in the hell was Pac better than Nas at rapping?

[Po pimp]

Too much whining back and forth about who's better and even a bunch of nonsense calling the other rapper weak. Pac and Nas are my #1 and #2 rappers of all time. There's a myth that Pac was this simplistic rhymer, which simply isn't true. Pac had vocabulary and a flow. Nas vocabulary was no better than Pac's. I think the reason why Nas is considered a better lyricist is because his rhymes are more descriptive, and he uses more complex rhyme patterns. Like I said before, Pac had vocabulary, but he didn't always use those "big words" as his actual rhymes. Pac came at you with a more direct approach. Either way, they are both two of the greats, it's OK to appreciate them both.

 

[mobbinfms]

No, because his other raps are terrible.
Fabolous is great with punchlines, not in my top anything.

I put a premium on A) makin music I "feel" and yes its highly subjective, but thats where Pac is GOAT to me, and I realize that if you aint "feelin" "Keep Ya Head Up" you probably dont like Pac. But even so, naS 'lyricism' aint better. It cant be demonstrated.

B) actual lyricism... similies, metaphors, entendres, imagery, irony, alliteration, puns, wit etc... a cat like Lupe has mastered it. Andre 3000 is like a hybrid between the two.

naS fans keep trying to talk about these rhyme schemes... naS rhymes schemes arent fukcin with Twista's in any way shape or form (neither are Pac's for that matter)... but of course naS fans want to ignore that FACT.

All naS fans show, is that they like naS... aint no reasonin behind it, and it doesnt need to be. Just keep it short and simple. as a naS stan just say, "No matter what naS says or how he says it, I think naS is the best." and be done with it.

I'm not even into Nas like that. Prodigy > Nas.
Infamous >Illmatic.

That was helpful that you posted your criteria. Obviously, what we "feel" is gonna be primary. It's my basis for saying Prodigy is better than Nas. It's 100% subjective though.

I see you put usage of literary devices over flow and rhyme schemes. Rap for you then would be something you could enjoy written down as much as performed.

Twista just doesn't move me when he's on his own. He sounds great when you put him next to someone not doing double time (like Kanye) but on his own, blah. Only album of his I've heard is Kamikaze. His style is gimmicky to me. Still, can't knock the talent.

 

[mobbinfms]

Nas - Undying Love - YouTube


And I already told you about naS, other than story telling he's garbage, but his stans insist on him being some sort of lyrical beast when I could name dozens of lyrically equal if not much better rappers. naS stans refusing to admit that shyt like "nacho cheese, I'm Castro" is some of the worst corniest garbage rap ever written. naS fans insistence on just asserting that this nicca changed rap when I have already demonstrated that niccaz I listened to were already rapping better than naS when naS came out.

The nicca is extra average.

So why not just have that opinion and keep it moving?

Why make thread after thread about him? Why bring him up in threads that don't have nothing to do with him?

 

[blackslash]

Pac is elevated in death...

Thats why I dont even bother with these threads

Pac would probably be flabby if he were alive.. nose ring and all

And Nas is elevated in sheep think and being Jay's antagonist

Him being Jay's rival keeps his name in people's mouths

Now when it comes to rap there are only 2 GOATS in this shyt

Pac and Jay...period

Not only because they transcend rap but because they are complete artists
Delivery, voice, flow, subject matter, influence, lyrics...they both have the greatest command over the people when behind the mic

Nas just doesnt cut it...it is what it is..

He's not a GOAT

Sure u can call him a legend
But Pac and Jay are GOATS

It is what it is..

Pac and Jay are the most versatile artists in this shyt and that is not only because of their talent..but also because they successfully created characters to entertain/relate to the masses
And tho you could say those 2 were on opposite sides of the spectrum they understood the mantra of "Its only entertainment" which gave them their ability to be so diverse and versatile

Pac and Jay are the only GOATS in this shyt

Anyone else mentioned is a joke..period

It is what it is

 

[mobbinfms]

And Nas is elevated in sheep think and being Jay's antagonist

Him being Jay's rival keeps his name in people's mouths

Now when it comes to rap there are only 2 GOATS in this shyt

Pac and Jay...period

Not only because they transcend rap but because they are complete artists
Delivery, voice, flow, subject matter, influence, lyrics...they both have the greatest command over the people when behind the mic

Nas just doesnt cut it...it is what it is..

He's not a GOAT

Sure u can call him a legend
But Pac and Jay are GOATS

It is what it is..

Pac and Jay are the most versatile artists in this shyt and that is not only because of their talent..but also because they successfully created characters to entertain/relate to the masses
And tho you could say those 2 were on opposite sides of the spectrum they understood the mantra of "Its only entertainment" which gave them their ability to be so diverse and versatile

Pac and Jay are the only GOATS in this shyt

Anyone else mentioned is a joke..period

It is what it is

Your criteria make a strong case for Big, Nas and Rakim.

Anyway - its all opinion. It is not, in fact, what it is. It's your opinion is what it is. Your opinions are not facts.

 

[Alexander Wiggin]

That's a stupid challenge. Who cares about four to six bars? What does that prove? To be posting in this thread, you should be familiar with both PAC and Nas' catalogs as well as the basics behind rhyme structure. If that's the case, it should be obvious that Nas has a more complex style that requires a higher level of skill. Just peep Illmatic and IWW, which as a hip hop fan you should be intimately familiar with

exactly, I mean if we take the illest 6 bars of all the mc's, then that will only point out that they are all the illest mcs' in the world and that's it, that's not a good way to mesure their skills on the regular.

Michael Jordan was the illest not only because he could do great chots and had greats statistics, it's because he was ill for a long period of time and pretty regular on dropping heat. AND his peak was overall higher than 99 percent of the others player will acheive

Why Nas is the better mc alive, it's because his catalogue is untouchable, because more than any other mc's he let us slide in his life more than any other, and was not afraid to show all the aspect of his weaknesses and failure (just check rise and fall, you're da man, the second verse of ether, one mic, drunk by myself, one never knows, undying love, triple beam dreams verse, ect). He's just one of the rare emcee to always autocritize himself

he got punchlines for day
he invented some phrases than stayed in hip hop slang
he rapped with the illest mc's ever on the same tracks without almost never been outshined
he wrote a lot a various songs
even on his commercial songs he was still lyrical
he have a mystique that 2pac never had until his death

 

[inndaskKy]

That's a stupid challenge. Who cares about four to six bars? What does that prove? To be posting in this thread, you should be familiar with both PAC and Nas' catalogs as well as the basics behind rhyme structure. If that's the case, it should be obvious that Nas has a more complex style that requires a higher level of skill. Just peep Illmatic and IWW, which as a hip hop fan you should be intimately familiar with

I am familiar with Nas' and Pac's entire catalogs and I am telling you that Nas' lyrical abilities compared to Pac's are entirely exaggerated and misrepresented on this board frequently.

If you continue to claim that it's 'obvious' that Nas rhyming ability is on a much higher plane than Pac's, then you should have no trouble producing a few examples of these rhymes. That's where the 6 bars come from. It could be 4 too, it doesn't really matter. The point is that it's no use posting an entire verse if you can't point out exactly what part is supposed to contain a rhyme pattern that is only to be found in Nas' work and not Pac's.
If you can't even do this, then your argument has no credibility whatsoever.

It's very simple. If I say AZ> Bizarre lyrically, then I can post the following bars by AZ and say that you won't find any of this level of rhyming in Bizarre's body (no pun intended) of work:

One in a million, I'm strong young and appealing
Was born son a villain, put on in front of my building
Peeping how the street structure, deceased brothers
Critique, but I was placed here to reach others
Incomplete, stand feet from the deep cover
Eternal sleep, I wonder if the Beast love us


If no one can find any Bizarre lines that match this level of rhyming, I have proven a point. I would then have a legitimate reason to say that AZ is more lyrical than Bizarre and I wouldn't have to appeal to it just being 'obvious' that AZ is better than Bizarre (though of course it is obvious, but it is also very easy to prove).

Now I am claiming that people won't find a sequence of bars by Nas that can't be matched by some Pac bars in terms of rhyming ability. That means it is completely exaggerated to say that Pac was weak lyrically while Nas is considered a lyrical genius. The most you could say is that Nas uses heavy rhyming on a more consistent basis. But you can't claim Pac didn't have the same lyrical ability.

 

[Ezikill]

Jay is nowhere near Pac, dude just took BIG's lane and ran with it. Floss rap is what he do best. no heart in it at all...... wit Jay and Big it was all bout the status and money

they couldn't give a fukk bout a message in their music

 

[inndaskKy]

exactly, I mean if we take the illest 6 bars of all the mc's, then that will only point out that they are all the illest mcs' in the world and that's it, that's not a good way to mesure their skills on the regular.

Michael Jordan was the illest not only because he could do great chots and had greats statistics, it's because he was ill for a long period of time and pretty regular on dropping heat. AND his peak was overall higher than 99 percent of the others player will acheive

Why Nas is the better mc alive, it's because his catalogue is untouchable, because more than any other mc's he let us slide in his life more than any other, and was not afraid to show all the aspect of his weaknesses and failure (just check rise and fall, you're da man, the second verse of ether, one mic, drunk by myself, one never knows, undying love, triple beam dreams verse, ect). He's just one of the rare emcee to always autocritize himself

he got punchlines for day
he invented some phrases than stayed in hip hop slang
he rapped with the illest mc's ever on the same tracks without almost never been outshined
he wrote a lot a various songs
even on his commercial songs he was still lyrical
he have a mystique that 2pac never had until his death

This is all beside the point. The point is that people are constantly claiming that Nas uses more intricate rhyme schemes than pac and that he is better at rhyming. My challenge is aimed at those claims. It is not aimed at determining who is the overall best rapper, which, as you pointed out, concerns more variables than just rhyming ability.

 

[intilectual recipricol]

exactly, I mean if we take the illest 6 bars of all the mc's, then that will only point out that they are all the illest mcs' in the world and that's it, that's not a good way to mesure their skills on the regular.

Michael Jordan was the illest not only because he could do great chots and had greats statistics, it's because he was ill for a long period of time and pretty regular on dropping heat. AND his peak was overall higher than 99 percent of the others player will acheive

Why Nas is the better mc alive, it's because his catalogue is untouchable, because more than any other mc's he let us slide in his life more than any other, and was not afraid to show all the aspect of his weaknesses and failure (just check rise and fall, you're da man, the second verse of ether, one mic, drunk by myself, one never knows, undying love, triple beam dreams verse, ect). He's just one of the rare emcee to always autocritize himself

he got punchlines for day
he invented some phrases than stayed in hip hop slang
he rapped with the illest mc's ever on the same tracks without almost never been outshined
he wrote a lot a various songs
even on his commercial songs he was still lyrical
he have a mystique that 2pac never had until his death

so much wrong in this post I cant even address it all.

naS has ZERO punchlines. much like Pac.
What phrases did naS invent? He aint come up with nothin as big as MC Hammer's "its all good"
Has naS rapped with the greatest rappers ever? I havent heard the tracks.
Every rapper with more than 1 album has written various songs.
here we go with the 'lyrical' stuff again... how?

@ naS having more "mystique" than Pac... nicca has ZERO mistique, unlike Pac once he started fanticizing about his own Death somewhere between S4MN and Thuglife Vol 1

its like you set out to be wrong about everything.

 

[mobbinfms]

I am familiar with Nas' and Pac's entire catalogs and I am telling you that Nas' lyrical abilities compared to Pac's are entirely exaggerated and misrepresented on this board frequently.

If you continue to claim that it's 'obvious' that Nas rhyming ability is on a much higher plane than Pac's, then you should have no trouble producing a few examples of these rhymes. That's where the 6 bars come from. It could be 4 too, it doesn't really matter. The point is that it's no use posting an entire verse if you can't point out exactly what part is supposed to contain a rhyme pattern that is only to be found in Nas' work and not Pac's.
If you can't even do this, then your argument has no credibility whatsoever.

It's very simple. If I say AZ> Bizarre lyrically, then I can post the following bars by AZ and say that you won't find any of this level of rhyming in Bizarre's body (no pun intended) of work:

One in a million, I'm strong young and appealing
Was born son a villain, put on in front of my building
Peeping how the street structure, deceased brothers
Critique, but I was placed here to reach others
Incomplete, stand feet from the deep cover
Eternal sleep, I wonder if the Beast love us


If no one can find any Bizarre lines that match this level of rhyming, I have proven a point. I would then have a legitimate reason to say that AZ is more lyrical than Bizarre and I wouldn't have to appeal to it just being 'obvious' that AZ is better than Bizarre (though of course it is obvious, but it is also very easy to prove).

Now I am claiming that people won't find a sequence of bars by Nas that can't be matched by some Pac bars in terms of rhyming ability. That means it is completely exaggerated to say that Pac was weak lyrically while Nas is considered a lyrical genius. The most you could say is that Nas uses heavy rhyming on a more consistent basis. But you can't claim Pac didn't have the same lyrical ability.

But this is why it's stupid, let's say Nas rapped on that higher level 75% of the time. And Pac only did it 2% of the time. By that criteria, you would be able to show 4 bars from PAC where he rapped on that higher level - but it would be incredibly misleading to say that makes him and Nas equal.

That's why this is something any hip hop fan should just know. To truly make the poi t you want to you'd have to analyze every bar from both of them. That would be silly to attempt (I can see IR doing it though) but, at the end of the day, we've all already done it through extensive listening to both.

 

[L. Deezy]

And Nas is elevated in sheep think and being Jay's antagonist

Him being Jay's rival keeps his name in people's mouths

Now when it comes to rap there are only 2 GOATS in this shyt

Pac and Jay...period

Not only because they transcend rap but because they are complete artists
Delivery, voice, flow, subject matter, influence, lyrics...they both have the greatest command over the people when behind the mic

Nas just doesnt cut it...it is what it is..

He's not a GOAT

Sure u can call him a legend
But Pac and Jay are GOATS

It is what it is..

Pac and Jay are the most versatile artists in this shyt and that is not only because of their talent..but also because they successfully created characters to entertain/relate to the masses
And tho you could say those 2 were on opposite sides of the spectrum they understood the mantra of "Its only entertainment" which gave them their ability to be so diverse and versatile

Pac and Jay are the only GOATS in this shyt

Anyone else mentioned is a joke..period

It is what it is

What the fukk did I say have to do with Nas or Jay Z you c*nt?

 

[intilectual recipricol]

So why not just have that opinion and keep it moving?

Why make thread after thread about him? Why bring him up in threads that don't have nothing to do with him?

because this is a hip hop forum. people keep asserting that naS is this lyrical beacon. So on a hip hop forum where we discuss this stuff I post threads to discuss it, but it seems naS fans just want to say stuff and not back it up. Like the thread I posted with one Lupe and one Twista track, two different types of lyricism... that naS cannot match. And of course no one even tried.

So on this hip hop forum where people talk about hip hop all day, and proclaim naS as this lyrical icon, cannot come up with a single example to show he's lyrically on the level of a Lupe or Twista. And the reason I used those two is to show that on the spectrum of lyricism, naS & Pac are somewhere in the middle with BIG. Cats like Lu, Jay, Common, 3 Stacks are at the top. I think its worth the debate.

 

[intilectual recipricol]

But this is why it's stupid, let's say Nas rapped on that higher level 75% of the time. And Pac only did it 2% of the time. By that criteria, you would be able to show 4 bars from PAC where he rapped on that higher level - but it would be incredibly misleading to say that makes him and Nas equal.

That's why this is something any hip hop fan should just know. To truly make the poi t you want to you'd have to analyze every bar from both of them. That would be silly to attempt (I can see IR doing it though) but, at the end of the day, we've all already done it through extensive listening to both.

nah, this is false. Your typical naS track and typical Pac track will show roughly the same level of lyricism. the naS track will have more big words that he doesnt know how to use or the meaning to, the Pac track will have more predictable rhymes at the end of the bars.

 

[Ezikill]

@recipricol keep up the good work

Pac >>>>>>>>>>>>>