How is Jay-Z a better artist than Biggie when he ain't go no albums better than Biggie's albums?

[Knicksman20]

This is one of the craziest takes I've ever seen on here. And I say this as a guy that will argue with anyone that Jay has the best catalogue in hip-hop.

Reasonable Doubt is debatable IMO. If you think RD is better than RTD or LAD, I wouldn't argue. I don't think it's better, but I've probably listened to it more than RTD or LAD, and I might actually enjoy it more.

Black Album, though? I don't think so. And I love it, and I think it's Jay's 3rd best album. The Black Album sounds more dated than Life After Death, and it was released 6-7 years later. Life After Death is a truly timeless album. I listened to it the other week and it sounds like it could've been released last year.

You have to understand a lot of these clowns weren't born during this time period to even have this discussion, weren't old enough during the era while this was going on, or have their own weak corny ass agendas because Big out shined their favorite artist/group lol. Dismiss the idiots bro. I wouldn't even waste my energy

 

[dora_da_destroyer]

same world where a few months from now the homie gonna make a Blueprint appreciation thread.

blueprint might just barely make his cutoff as to when he stopped listening to rap

 

[dora_da_destroyer]

Without Biggie Jay might've not existed or got the look. If he was alive today he would've been at the same level as Jay.

there's absolutely no guarantee he would've been. breh could've fallen off, not evolved with the times, not been the same businessman jay is - i'm sure puff would've fukked him over at some point, and def wouldn't have married the biggest r&b pop star (something that has breathed life into the reach and status of jay).

 

[TheDarceKnight]

there's absolutely no guarantee he would've been. breh could've fallen off, not evolved with the times, not been the same businessman jay is - i'm sure puff would've fukked him over at some point, and def wouldn't have married the biggest r&b pop star (something that has breathed life into the reach and status of jay).

No doubt. There's no guarantee that Big wouldn't have fallen off, dropped a terrible album, etc.

However, just based on how he seemed as an artist, and his personality type, and being super original and not really chasing trends...I have a gut feeling that Big would've been a pretty damn consistently dope artist as the years went on.

I can't prove it, but it's just a hunch.

 

[Tommy Sheppard]

y’all gotta quit making this dude go plat with these same old ass topics about the same shyt every week

 

[Knicksman20]

No doubt. There's no guarantee that Big wouldn't have fallen off, dropped a terrible album, etc.

However, just based on how he seemed as an artist, and his personality type, and being super original and not really chasing trends...I have a gut feeling that Big would've been a pretty damn consistently dope artist as the years went on.

I can't prove it, but it's just a hunch.

Just off the fact that Puff & Jay both copied some of Big's ideas/ventures gives you a glimpse of what could've been. And how he moved Lil Kim in not letting Puff know he was writing for her & getting money from that let's you know he had a sharp business mind

 

[dora_da_destroyer]

No doubt. There's no guarantee that Big wouldn't have fallen off, dropped a terrible album, etc.

However, just based on how he seemed as an artist, and his personality type, and being super original and not really chasing trends...I have a gut feeling that Big would've been a pretty damn consistently dope artist as the years went on.

I can't prove it, but it's just a hunch.

puff having him over sample-heavy shyt to compete with the west's laid back style is trend chasing (he was rhyming over much rawer beats when puff found him). furthermore, breh had 3 years in the light, no clue what trends he would've chased to stay relevant.

and people have those hunches all the time, and then music changes or a rapper falls off

 

[Cadillac]

Without Biggie Jay might've not existed or got the look..

no offense, but this is such flawed logic you can apply the same thing on how without Snoop and doggy style(plus the other west coast rappers he borrowed from, and Puff helping him to bite them) Biggie would not have gotten the success he had.

I never understood holding that over Jay when it came to Jay vs Big discussions Given that Big took shyt to from other artist just like Jay did from him.

if i made a Snoop vs Big thread, this forum would not hesitate to shyt on snoop and glorify Big(as yall usually do) and sing high praises. And none of yall would hold the impact Snoop had over Big over Big's head

the inconsistencies with yall man. SMH

 

[Cadillac]

puff having him over sample-heavy shyt to compete with the west's laid back style is trend chasing. furthermore, breh had 3 years in the light, no clue what trends he would've chased to stay relevant.

and people have those hunches all the time, and then music changes or a rapper falls off

@bolded: adding on, parts of his swag specifically as some gangsta who was part playa was taken from west coast rappers and what they were doing.

 

[seemorecizzy]

big sean doesn't become better than nipsey hussle 5-10 years from now just because he continues to drop good albums and nip only officially dropped 1.

that theory is dumb as hell to me.

biggie dying is irrevelant. if someone is a better raper than you when you are both alive...than they better than you..

biggie and jayz were both alive and in their prime in 1996 and part of 1997. jay-z dropped his best album in a year where biggie didn't drop a solo project and you can't name me one person who thought jay was better than him or even on his level. he was just a dope rapper. nothin more or less.

jay-z, as great as he is, isn't on that level as a artist. Dmx was also more popular than jayz in 98 and 99 and that was his coming out party.
its almost as if from the late 80s until like his fake retirement, the public was looking for someone else besides him to be the face of hip hop and eventually just settled with him.

jay's gift is being consistent, staying out of trouble, and aligning himself with people than can take his spot ( dmx, 50 cent, drake etc). he also great at marketing, and pushing his fans to believe albums are better than they actually are. its easy to get caught up in that if you didnt experience it in real time.

jay would be an AZ Level artist if biggie didn't die. and AZ Is great, so its not an insult. but that's just what it is.

jay-z aint close to biggie lol only nasir jones has a argument. illmatic and it was written can go toe to toe wit ready to die and LAD. Those guys are the total package

 

[TheDarceKnight]

puff having him over sample-heavy shyt to compete with the west's laid back style is trend chasing (he was rhyming over much rawer beats when puff found him). furthermore, breh had 3 years in the light, no clue what trends he would've chased to stay relevant.

and people have those hunches all the time, and then music changes or a rapper falls off

That's a fair point, but I always heard that Puff was damn near impossible to argue with on those type of decisions.

If anything, I could've seen Big falling victim to the same Bad Boy curse that plagued a lot of Bad Boy artists. If Big could've gotten away from Puff, then I would've been interested to hear of he would've been doper or less dope when making his own decisions.

One interesting anecdote is that apparently Primo and Big had to damn near fight Puff to have Kick In The Door on Life After Death. Puff really hated the beat, and apparently he didn't get it at all. It wasn't until after he heard the final record that he stopped disliking it. And even then, I've heard it's not one of his favorite songs by any means. Also, Puff insisted on adding in the silly little laser beam sound to the Havoc beat on Last Day. For some reason he just couldn't help but throw some spice into the stew, even though it was fine how it was.

 

[Alexander Wiggin]

This is a real simple equation. And for the record I think Big is the best emcee to pick up a mic.

Jay's best album may not be better than Big's best album. But...Jay has albums that are very close, and Jay's had decades of dope music. So Jay has more dope music overall, and that sounds unfair because it's a tragedy that Big was murdered, but also when it comes to a discography it just is what it is. Jay has more overall quality albums, features, etc.

Even though everything Big did in the few short years he was creating may have been stronger, at a certain point it just doesn't outweigh the consistency that Jay has brought to the table.

And trust me. All the time I wonder what Big could've accomplished as an artist. I don't think he would've fallen off, and I think he would've sounded amazing over music from the crop of 2000's producers that came in, etc. We lost a once in a lifetime talent.

I disagree. What big did in this 3 years was stellar. He got heights Jay never got in popularity and artistry wise. You can compare them to Bruce Lee and Jackie Chan. Both legends Jackie Chan got a good and long body of work but he can't fukk with what Bruce Lee means and done in his short career no matter what

 

[Nomad1]

You really think Vol 2 is better than RD

no i think camel doesnt have a good album to his name besides those two

 

[Budda]

How anyone can argue Jay has a better flow than Biggie is incredible.

 

[Awesome Wells]

You have to understand a lot of these clowns weren't born during this time period to even have this discussion, weren't old enough during the era while this was going on, or have their own weak corny ass agendas because Big out shined their favorite artist/group lol. Dismiss the idiots bro. I wouldn't even waste my energy

LOL!! I always say the exact same thing on here.