I had no idea that Max Martin was fukking with the Weeknd. I should've known

IllmaticDelta

IllmaticDelta

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CrimsonTider said:
No, Motown isn't pop
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Motown was Soul music but it was also Pop because it appealed to the masses


Boosie "Swerve" was made for the same purpose as in da club
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It's club song but not one that sounds like it was crafted for crossover appeal



Taylor swift, backstreet boys, one direction, Katy perry.

That's pop music.
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Yes, one area of Pop music. R Kelly, Babyface and Bobby Brown are/were also POP music.
 
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scuba said:
I think we done said enough about hip hop vs pop...

So moving on to Max Martin his talent lies in the ability to fuse different art music's together in a way that's non offensive to the majority while maintaining enough of the fused music...

Let's take a non max Martin attempt... Downtown by macklemore... The theory behind it is taking old school hip hop, throwback funk, 70s rock opera together with comedic parody rap and modern music transitions to create something that appeals to fans of all those forms that is accessible to pop fans who font particularly like any of those genres... Problem is it sounds like 3 different records cut together so it doesn't 'work'

Now look at 'One More Time' by maroon 5... It merges police style ska rock guitars, with strait rock drum patterns, but with pop drum sounds but mixed with a prioritization like hip hop drums... Adds ins Adam Levine's distinct style of pop falsetto, the dream inspired vocal sounds catchisms and a universal love that ain't working but I can't give up theme...

One sounds like a parody mix of distinct genres that fails to fully appeal to a fan of any of the constituent parts...

The other sounds like a serious emotional dance ballad, that sounds to ska rock fans like a ska rock song, sounds to hip hop fans like a hip hop dance beat, sounds to the mainstream like a dance pop song... And has strong multiple catchy elements and actually sounds a bit edgy for that crowd...

It's definitely merging a bunch of different genres and catchy components to appeal to the widest possible audience.... Its pop but it's good as far as pop can go...
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This is why I considered that expertly executed

Great post man
 
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scuba

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Dudes... problem here is pop is used to mean more than one thing. Pop music has a specific meaning as a musical genre. There is no debate to this. Its been documented by multiple sources for multiple decades.

Lets take it away from Hip Hop because i think folks sensibilities are being clouded.

We are in america, Country music is immensely popular. Country music stars routinely outsell the majority of pop stars. Country music does NOT get play on pop music channels. Even an artist who was an established Country artist like Taylor Swift, who had legit country hits had to change to a pop style to get pop play. Pop music doesnt mean music that is popular. Pop music takes elements from many styles including country, but it also explicitly cuts off the most distinguishing key elements of the source music to get a style that is palatable across the boards. In regards to Country that means stripping away number one the strong southern accent. When Taylor Swift hits 28 and is re marketed to her country roots, the first thing you gonna notice is the southern accent is going to be back. Number two is stripping out the 7th chords to majors except maybe dominant 7ths. It means changing instrumentation. Removing extensive guitar vamps. Downplaying the specificity of the narratives to more generically appealing approach... country music characteristic is its specificity in its story telling...

Thats what pop is... its not just ohh a song is popular so its pop... thats why country hits dont get play on pop charts... because country music for all its popularity is a hate it or love it affair. Pop music is about the broadest possible accessibility i e the lowest common denominator of elements.

Another non Hip Hop angle is Adult Contemporary R&B. That doesnt really mean R&B for old folks, it doesnt mean old school R&B it is a specific genre...

Some Adult Contemporary R&B songs are wildly popular. Adult Contemporary R&B singles dont outsell pop stars singles, but their album sales can sometimes outsell pop albums sales. This is a popular music form. This music doesn't play on pop radio channels even if the song in question in question is a hit popular record.

Another non Hip Hop angle is Rock. Which is the MOST ICONIC and historically has been the most popular music form in america.

Whats the last rock song that was a hit on Pop radio? Yet these dudes are selling albums... Selling out tours... BUT they wont get pop airplay... the whole pop music genre was specifically designed to be 'rock' without all the edges...

This is not even debatable... pop music is a specific genre... it evolves over time... but it is a specific genre...

let me try once again to explain pop, but let me take hip hop out of it so we dont have a debate ...

say you have a world where the most popular genres are Country, R&B, Dance and Rock. HOWEVER the important thing is there isnt just attraction to music, there is repulsion as well... Lets say that R&B heads hate Rock and Country. Country heads hate Dance and R&B. Etc... say each audience has 50 million people in it... at anyone one point in the time the most popular best selling product might be a Country or R&B or Dance or Rock song and it might get 50 million in sales... But how do you have a radio station of these popular hits... it will play the most popular rock song, then the most popular R&B, then the most popular Dance, then the most popular Country. But no one will listen to it, they will turn the channel as soon as a genre they don't like comes on... so instead another strategy is what if i focus on making a new genre where i take the elements from each, but i remove the most unique easily identifiable components that are repulsors to other genra audience. Take the accents out of southern, take the distorted guitars out of rock, take the 8 minute length out of Dance add in choruses, take the blackness out of R&B... now you have a genre that no audience hates, no audience loves 100% but can get 25% share from each audience... you can make a radio station for this genre now, you can market it now... and since you can market it across the board to 100% of people over time this genre gets more popular...

and that is LITERALLY what pop music is... Country, R&B, Rock merged in 60s... in the 70s it merged in Dance (Disco)... at the turn of the millennium Hip Hop was merged in... its a distinct genre all its own even though it contains a lot of components from all over the place... its founding principal is sales by way of not OFFENDING musical sensibilities... its literally the venn diagram union of 'like' across the american public...

Sometimes a true rock country r&b or hip hop song can get wildly popular... and depending on how many repulsors it has it can sometimes get play on pop radio... that doesnt make it a pop song... that makes it a crossover...

this isnt my opinion. this is literal documented... rephrase... WELL documented fact.
 
IllmaticDelta

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scuba said:
Dudes... problem here is pop is used to mean more than one thing. Pop music has a specific meaning as a musical genre. There is no debate to this. Its been documented by multiple sources for multiple decades.

Lets take it away from Hip Hop because i think folks sensibilities are being clouded.

We are in america, Country music is immensely popular. Country music stars routinely outsell the majority of pop stars. Country music does NOT get play on pop music channels. Even an artist who was an established Country artist like Taylor Swift, who had legit country hits had to change to a pop style to get pop play. Pop music doesnt mean music that is popular. Pop music takes elements from many styles including country, but it also explicitly cuts off the most distinguishing key elements of the source music to get a style that is palatable across the boards. In regards to Country that means stripping away number one the strong southern accent. When Taylor Swift hits 28 and is re marketed to her country roots, the first thing you gonna notice is the southern accent is going to be back. Number two is stripping out the 7th chords to majors except maybe dominant 7ths. It means changing instrumentation. Removing extensive guitar vamps. Downplaying the specificity of the narratives to more generically appealing approach... country music characteristic is its specificity in its story telling...
Click to expand...


Swift did get pop rotation even before her recent album


Thats what pop is... its not just ohh a song is popular so its pop... thats why country hits dont get play on pop charts... because country music for all its popularity is a hate it or love it affair. Pop music is about the broadest possible accessibility i e the lowest common denominator of elements.
Click to expand...

I agree but there are numerous "Country" songs that chart into the Billboard 100/Top 40






This is not even debatable... pop music is a specific genre... it evolves over time... but it is a specific genre...

let me try once again to explain pop, but let me take hip hop out of it so we dont have a debate ...

say you have a world where the most popular genres are Country, R&B, Dance and Rock. HOWEVER the important thing is there isnt just attraction to music, there is repulsion as well... Lets say that R&B heads hate Rock and Country. Country heads hate Dance and R&B. Etc... say each audience has 50 million people in it... at anyone one point in the time the most popular best selling product might be a Country or R&B or Dance or Rock song and it might get 50 million in sales... But how do you have a radio station of these popular hits... it will play the most popular rock song, then the most popular R&B, then the most popular Dance, then the most popular Country. But no one will listen to it, they will turn the channel as soon as a genre they don't like comes on... so instead another strategy is what if i focus on making a new genre where i take the elements from each, but i remove the most unique easily identifiable components that are repulsors to other genra audience. Take the accents out of southern, take the distorted guitars out of rock, take the 8 minute length out of Dance add in choruses, take the blackness out of R&B... now you have a genre that no audience hates, no audience loves 100% but can get 25% share from each audience... you can make a radio station for this genre now, you can market it now... and since you can market it across the board to 100% of people over time this genre gets more popular...

and that is LITERALLY what pop music is... Country, R&B, Rock merged in 60s... in the 70s it merged in Dance (Disco)... at the turn of the millennium Hip Hop was merged in... its a distinct genre all its own even though it contains a lot of components from all over the place... its founding principal is sales by way of not OFFENDING musical sensibilities... its literally the venn diagram union of 'like' across the american public...

Sometimes a true rock country r&b or hip hop song can get wildly popular... and depending on how many repulsors it has it can sometimes get play on pop radio... that doesnt make it a pop song... that makes it a crossover...

this isnt my opinion. this is literal documented... rephrase... WELL documented fact.
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Why Let Pop Steal Listeners, When Country Can Be Pop Too?


“Pop selectively waits for something to explode on country and then benefits from the all the exposure and relevance that the country format has built for it (Taylor Swift, for example).”


Top 40 pop radio has always been about taking the biggest songs from the respective genres and featuring them in one place. That’s pop radio’s job; that’s its niche in the marketplace. Now country is showing the early signs of coveting that position for itself.
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Why Let Pop Steal Listeners, When Country Can Be Pop Too?

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Fixing the Charts


So, how do you come up with a pop-chart metric, like R. & B. and hip-hop, that’s neither arbitrary nor overly narrow?

One of the big reasons the Hot 100 has it easy is because it’s all genres; we call it the pop chart, but anything can appear on the Hot 100. If a catchy Gregorian chant came out tomorrow—in fact, about twenty years ago, a catchy Gregorian chant did appear on the Hot 100—it would chart there. Whereas the genre charts that I speak about in this article all have this definitional problem.


So YouTube hasn’t addressed the imbalances in the chart. Why do you think it’s so hard for the pop and R. & B. categories to fall back into some sort of accurate shape?

I wrote a piece for Slate back in December that seems relevant here. A couple of weeks before the end of the year, I noticed there had not been a single No. 1 record on the Hot 100 by a black person; 2013 was the first time that had happened. In the article, I alluded to the idea that we’re in a so-called “post-racial,” Obama-era America. There’s this sense that we, as Americans and as music fans, want to move beyond this and pretend that these genres don’t exist and good music is good music.

That’s bullshyt. Even if the definitions of these genres are harder to define than they were fifteen or twenty years ago, they’re still subcultures from which interesting music emerges and bubbles up, and also still subcultures where stuff from the top pushes down. I was careful in the piece not to merely talk about R. & B. music like it’s this farm team for big pop records that white people can consume. I’ve always been equally charmed by the R. & B. record that starts on the R. & B. chart and migrates to the Hot 100 and, say, a Hall and Oates record that starts pop but migrates back to the R. & B. chart. The way the R. & B. audience selectively decides, “We’re not interested in these five Hall and Oates tracks, but ‘I Can’t Go for That’? We’re very interested in that track.”
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Fixing the Charts - The New Yorker

Pop which is best represent by Billboard Top 100 and Top 40 is nothing more than songs from macro genres with mass appeal.[/quote]
 
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scuba

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homie.... lets keep this fact based...

What is the last country song that was a big hit on pop radio?

Billboard top 10 Country right now... any of these hit the billboard top 40?


1Last Week: 1



House Party
Sam Hunt

WATCH
Sam Hunt[/paste:font]

Digital Gainer
24

I'm To Blame
Kip Moore

Airplay Gainer
4

John Cougar, John Deere, John 3:16
Keith Urban


2Last Week: 2



Crash And Burn
Thomas Rhett


3Last Week: 4



Buy Me A Boat
Chris Janson


4Last Week: 5



John Cougar, John Deere, John 3:16
Keith Urban


5Last Week: 36



Smoke Break
Carrie Underwood


6Last Week: 3



Kick The Dust Up
Luke Bryan

Luke Bryan[/paste:font]


8Last Week: 9



Lose My Mind
Brett Eldredge


9Last Week: 10



Hell Of A Night
Dustin Lynch


10Last Week: 6



Like A Wrecking Ball
Eric Church
 
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scuba

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Adult R&B Billboard Chart right now... which one of these hit the top 40? Maybe Janet Jackson will cross over because she is a well known pop artist... Anyone else?


1Last Week: 3



No Sleeep
Janet Featuring J. Cole

Jaheim[/paste:font]

2Last Week: 2



Earned It (Fifty Shades Of Grey)
The Weeknd


3Last Week: 1



Shame
Tyrese

WATCH

4Last Week: 5



Let It Burn
Jazmine Sullivan

WATCH

5Last Week: 4



Fool's Gold
Jill Scott


6Last Week: 7



Morning Sun
Robin Thicke

Tamar Braxton[/paste:font]


8Last Week: 8



Get Right Back To My Baby
Vivian Green

WATCH

9Last Week: 9



Special
Avant


10Last Week: 11



Back In My Arms
Jaheim
 
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