I need to address 2 specific talking points about HAKEEM OLAJUWON...

[feelosofer]

That Drexler trade in 95, was more for the playoffs than the regular season, kinda like the Kevin Love trade, now. You can't go by their record heading towards the end of that season. Also I think you are selling short the teams 'Keem had to play to even get those two rings. It took time for Hakeem to mature his game but fact of the matter is, he is still one of the best to have ever done and, imo is second only to Kareem.

 

[letti cook]

*reads first point*

*ejects*
NOPE!! HE DA DREAM! HE DA GREATEST! NOPE!

 

[jadillac]

Hakeem hit his prime in the early to mid 90s and was arguably the best player in the league for 2-3 years.

Furthermore, he took a physical beating from a young bull named Shaq in 95 and still schooled him on the offensive end.

He schooled the MVP David Robinson and Patrick Ewing as well.

He wasbt great early in his career, he worked to get to the top of his game and did it. His peak didn't last several years, but his peak was as good or better than nearly every other great center in NBA history.

 

[Ed MOTHEREFFING G]

I respect your overall point and agree to a degree however some of you points were petty or just plain wrong. For starters Shaq never was first team all defense, he never won DPOY and he only won one MVP as well. So how exactly aren't those Shaq status accomplishments? Dream put up 21, 14, and 4 in 90-91. Duckworth put up 16 and 7. It's not like dude outplayed Dream. If anything that just further calls all-star selections into question. How does Shaq slide on "in over their head" for losing to said .500 team that got pushed to the limit by everybody out West (they were the 6th seed so they were actually the ones doing the pushing) yet having a rough go in the West and beating Shaq head to head after his "in over their heads" squad elimianted Jordan (more than aware of the circumstances) reflects poorly on Dream? Wilt, Shaq, and Baylor were all legendary for their playoff Ls and these were with the likes of Jerry West, Goodrich, Kobe, Wade, and Penny. Meanwhile you are listing Vernon Maxwell and Kenny Smith like they were superstars or some shyt . You wanna call Dream's legend into question and really explore the truth of what happened then fine. But doing so while copping pleas and giving the same treatment that you are bemoaning to the legacy of others only takes away from your point.

i hear you but disagree on a couple points. First I was not talking about maxwell and smith like they were superstars, but the trio of maxwell thorpe and smith were absolutely legit to round out the bulk of a starting five and each could score, and were respected in the league. I showed the numbers to support that. Thorpe smith and maxwell could start on either of the nba finals teams today, with the exception of smith on GSW. fair point about the shaq accolades, but I believe that shaq has achievements that simply outweigh what hakeem has [6 finals appearances, 5 rings, 1 mvp with 1 robbed mvp] as well as

good call on the finals losses by other 'greats' though, that was worth mentioning in discussion. We can both agree though, that wilt, shaq, balor's achievements outweigh hakeems though. I feel that the loss/win libra scale is tipped heavier for dream.

 

[Ed MOTHEREFFING G]

Hakeem hit his prime in the early to mid 90s and was arguably the best player in the league for 2-3 years.

Furthermore, he took a physical beating from a young bull named Shaq in 95 and still schooled him on the offensive end.

He schooled the MVP David Robinson and Patrick Ewing as well.

He wasbt great early in his career, he worked to get to the top of his game and did it. His peak didn't last several years, but his peak was as good or better than nearly every other great center in NBA history.

i was talking about physical prime, i honestly don't care about what selective 'window' you chose for your "prime"

 

[50CentStan]

Hakeem is the GOAT center, thats why you have to make threads like this trying to prove he's not, and fail.

 

[Heelmatic]

I've never in my life heard someone say Hakeem was top 5 all time

This is random as fukk

 

[labelplant]

• "In his prime, hakeem...."
  
  lets talk about Hakeem's prime. I'll call his prime 87-97. That should HELP him because it negates his biggest fall off seasons and his earliest as he honed his game. This man:
  • Was not elected to the all star game in 91 to kevin duckworth
    
  • Lost in the 1st round 4 years in a row [i'll discuss the health of those teams shortly]
  • was basically .500 until he got don cheney fired, and...
  • missed the playoffs in 92 [the afformentioned blazers with duckworth went to the finals btw]
    
  • won 1 mvp
  • was a perennial defensive 1st teamer and 2x DPOY [definitely deserved]
    
    these are not world beater accolades. these are not wilt chaimberlain, shaq, baylor status achievements.
• Hakeem had no help
  
  sounds good. But lets look at his actual team.
  • The 91 rockets had 3 players that averaged 17ppg [maxwell, thorpe, kenny smith, hakeem] AND a 6th man who averaged 12. And they all were subservient to hakeem's game. They get swept in the 1st rd.
  • 93 rockets have the same team virtually and add horry, lose to seattle who would lose to phoenix
  • the 94 rockets have the same crew, and are still taken to 7 games twice including in the finals to the knicks....the knicks.
  • 95 rockets, a borderline .500 team until they get glide. In the playoffs they go 5, 7, 6 games before facing the 'in over their head' magic. Nobody remembers that, and just waxes poetic about the dream shake.
  • The 96-97 rockets had 3 hall of famers; 33, 33, and 34 years old respectively [this is the same age bracket as the 08-10 celtics, btw]. Barkley averaged 19-13-4 that year. Clyde averaged 18-6-4. Dream 23-9-2blk. Taken to the distance by seattle, and got that work by a jazz team with way less depth, led by a malone and stockton just as old. So, don't talk to me about him being some martyr. He had support.

I fully expect to get gifs and YT videos of hakeem shakin fools; and understandably, he was a phenomenal talent on both ends, but this love affair with hakeem as a top 5 player all time is just ridiculous. He is outstanding but barkley, malone, the sonics, the spurs, used to not just give him a challenge, they beat him...then they'd go and get worked by eastern conference champs...

Truth.. I still take Admiral, maybe hakeem outplayed him one on one but as a whole Robinson was the better player. It's close tho

 

[labelplant]

Btw, Robert Horry is the kingmaker when it comes to centers... look at his history

Stretch 4s>>>

 

[Dirty D]

I don't see much being debunked here.

Hakeem had some struggles but he won 2 titles, won an MVP and destroyed the "MVP" in D-Rob the next year. He played both sides of the ball at an elite level. He went through a rebuild after Sampson got hurt and there were some down years for the team there, but that's not really his fault.

No other Houston Rocket made an all-star team during their title seasons. That was rare for an NBA champion. It's why Dirk is so revered for 2011 and why what LeBron is doing without Love and Kyrie is so amazing. The Rockets had good role players, sure, but conventional wisdom in the NBA is that you need at least 2 all-stars to win a title.

If the case is Hakeem's career vs Shaq's, Shaq was more dominant offensively but was not the defender that Hakeem was. He won twice as many titles though, so that has to be taken into account. Hakeem didn't get to play with Kobe or Wade either though, and Barkley was not as complimentary to Hakeem's game as a wing like Kobe/Wade would have been.

If Rockets management had bothered to get a real PG instead of Matt Maloney, we would have gotten MJ vs Hakeem in the Finals in '97.

 

[Boonapalist]

Akeem used to fight all the time in the 80s. He was wild and always angry at something.
That "quiet muslim" shyt only came after he added the "H" to his first name

That nikka even punched a store clerk

 

[FAH1223]

Stole money from the raptors as well

 

[FTBS]

i hear you but disagree on a couple points. First I was not talking about maxwell and smith like they were superstars, but the trio of maxwell thorpe and smith were absolutely legit to round out the bulk of a starting five and each could score, and were respected in the league. I showed the numbers to support that. Thorpe smith and maxwell could start on either of the nba finals teams today, with the exception of smith on GSW. fair point about the shaq accolades, but I believe that shaq has achievements that simply outweigh what hakeem has [6 finals appearances, 5 rings, 1 mvp with 1 robbed mvp] as well as

good call on the finals losses by other 'greats' though, that was worth mentioning in discussion. We can both agree though, that wilt, shaq, balor's achievements outweigh hakeems though. I feel that the loss/win libra scale is tipped heavier for dream.

For starters I you for being grown and not going haywire because somebody disagreed with/challenged you.


That trio were all role players breh. Nobody was gameplanning for these dudes. None of those guys had the capability to be a number 1. Plenty of guys are respected and have had a nice season or two but when you are listing guys on some "he lost with this much help" type shyt you are implying a certain level of greatness that I just don't think you can put those guys on.

Shaq has 4 rings and 6 appearances and lost as the favorite both times he lost (including one to Dream) and he got carried by Wade and the refs for number 4. He had the top young perimeter stud by his side every year from his second year through his 15th. If Dream was rolling with Jordan, then Mitch Richmond, and then G. Hill, then I could see that comparison. Rings are a team accomplishment. You give Shaq Smith, Thorpe, and Maxwell and see how many rings he wins. Let's not forget how many Ls he took with Kobe, Penny, and Wade mind you.

Wilt - 4 MVPs, 2 rings, 7 scoring titles, 7 all nba first team
Baylor - no MVPs, 0 rings, 0 scoring titles, 10 time all nba first team
Shaq- 1 MVP, 3 Finals MVPs, 4 rings, 2 scoring titles, 8 time All NBA 1st team, 0 first team defense
Hakeem- 1 MVP, 2 Finals MVPs, 2 rings (beat Shaq for one), 2x DPOY, 5 time All NBA 1st team, 5 time all Defense first team

I could see Wilt. He shyts on almost everybody. I am not seeing what puts Baylor (Where did he come from btw? Seems kinda out of place in this grouping) and Shaq on another level though.

 

[superunknown23]

 

[Houston911]

Otis thorpe averaged 0.4 blocks per game and dudes in here talking about hakeem needed his shotblocking

Hakeem scored more than TWICE as much as the rockets second leading scorer during the playoffs of the first championship and yall keep talking about all the help he had

Its funny because EVERY single nba player that they talk to say if theres anyone who ever won a ring by himself, its hakeem

Welcome to the coli, where:

$100,000 is the average salary
everyone is over 6 ft tall
no one goes bald
everyone has a stable of fine white women
everyone has a 6 pack
everyone has multiple degrees/certs
hakeen olajuwon is overrated