I played in both eras, I played against both of them. Jordan is the #GOAT - Ray Allen

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The turn this argument has taken shows what's wrong with this era. 90% of the conversation is about offense. MJ isn't the GOAT strictly based on what he would average in today's game or vice versa. Actually listen to what Ray Allen said. He listed passing as MJ's "weakness" (even though when he was put at point guard he ran off 7 straight triple doubles and 10 in 11 games) cause he didn't pass that much. He then said he had no other weakness in his game. NONE. MJ played defense. Offense will always shift and shape differently when eras change, but the concept of stopping the man in front of you doesn't. Nobody on the GOAT list did it like MJ did. He was the complete player that was great in every aspect of the game and it all translated into titles.
Wrong with this era? You mean during an era with the most athletic players and advanced defensive schemes, that have been built on the constant exchange of the offensive/defensive power struggle. Not to mention, the basketball public understands what constitutes as good defense a lot more than those during MJ's time in the league. I mean hell, even NBA coaches didn't treat defending the 3-pt shot seriously 25-30+ years ago. And what do you mean by "nobody on the GOAT list did it like MJ did"? Defense? Overall? Because LeBron has his measure in both categories.

Not to mention if we're talking about "complete" player (not necessarily better, but fewer weaknesses/more overall strengths), LeBron certainly has a better argument.
 

Bigblackted4

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Wrong with this era? You mean during an era with the most athletic players and advanced defensive schemes, that have been built on the constant exchange of the offensive/defensive power struggle. Not to mention, the basketball public understands what constitutes as good defense a lot more than those during MJ's time in the league. I mean hell, even NBA coaches didn't treat defending the 3-pt shot seriously 25-30+ years ago. And what do you mean by "nobody on the GOAT list did it like MJ did"? Defense? Overall? Because LeBron has his measure in both categories.

Not to mention if we're talking about "complete" player (not necessarily better, but fewer weaknesses/more overall strengths), LeBron certainly has a better argument.

I would agree with this slightly. Jordan is a better jump shooter, better post up, better on ball defender(please don’t argue this) better at drawing fouls better at perimeter off ball defender better in the clutch while Bron is a better passer, better deep shooter, slightly better at the rim, better rim protector more versatile.
 

fifth column

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Who is individually better? Can’t really say for sure because of era and style of play/ different position. Who dominated their respective era should determine the goat. MJ as the best in the league dominated his era better than any great ever. He got his head kicked in early in his career by better teams but unlike Bron he leveled up mentally. Bron is top 5 ever but too many mental lapses to be the goat. Bron dominated the east but was light work for the west.
 

Bilz

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why on this site does Jordan get penalized for his physical differences and Bron gets praised for his :jbhmm:
Penalized? In what way? Kobe and Jordan are both 6'6 shooting guards so its easy to compare them against each other. LeBron is a 6'8 hybrid sf/pg and Kareem is a 7'2 center. Jordan isn't being penalized at all, its just harder to compare apples to apples.
 

Champ_KW

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Wrong with this era? You mean during an era with the most athletic players and advanced defensive schemes, that have been built on the constant exchange of the offensive/defensive power struggle. Not to mention, the basketball public understands what constitutes as good defense a lot more than those during MJ's time in the league. I mean hell, even NBA coaches didn't treat defending the 3-pt shot seriously 25-30+ years ago. And what do you mean by "nobody on the GOAT list did it like MJ did"? Defense? Overall? Because LeBron has his measure in both categories.

Not to mention if we're talking about "complete" player (not necessarily better, but fewer weaknesses/more overall strengths), LeBron certainly has a better argument.

Advanced defensive schemes??? Are you serious? I grew up watching Reggie Miller run full speed thru multiple screens with a defender chasing with maximum effort and other players showing and trapping. Just this past year in the finals I watched KD walk into one lazy pick 30 feet from the basket and the defender (Bron) switched without fighting thru it and allowed for a mismatch. Nothing about today's defense is advanced.

And LeBron is not the more complete player. He's a stat compiler that has the ball in his hands a lot. In fact, when is the last time you've seen LeBron catch the ball with his back to the basket on the baseline and score? There are literally places on the floor that no one expects LeBron's offense to even start from. How often is Bron starting his offense in the deep corner? How often do you see him flash to the free throw line extended and start his offense with his back to the basket 15 feet away? Sure, he's a great player so I'm sure you can post instances of when it's happened, but it's not who he is. I can post 15 min videos of MJ on turn around jumpers alone. There are literally 18 min videos of MJ's footwork alone. 18 min videos of MJ's post moves alone. He didn't have isolated instances where he hit 6 turn around jumpers like Bron did against Toronto and have it look so amazing cause it stuck out. That was simply just a part of MJ's game. And it's not just scoring either. When MJ scored his career high of 69 points, he also pulled down 18 boards, 6 assists, 4 steals, and 1 block. When Bron scored his career high of 61, he had 7 boards, 4 assists, ZERO blocks or steals. It's fair to say, when you got the best outta MJ scoring the ball, other areas of his game doesn't suffer. Cause he's a more complete player.

And Bron does not measure up on defense. MJ has six seasons with 200 steals, Bron has none. In fact, MJ totaled 123 steals in his last season as a 39/40 year old man. Bron hasn't seen that total since he was 28/29 years old. The smaller MJ has two seasons with 100 blocks. Bron has zero. So no, Bron does not measure up in both defense or overall.
 

Jordan>>LeFrozen

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Wrong with this era? You mean during an era with the most athletic players and advanced defensive schemes, that have been built on the constant exchange of the offensive/defensive power struggle. Not to mention, the basketball public understands what constitutes as good defense a lot more than those during MJ's time in the league. I mean hell, even NBA coaches didn't treat defending the 3-pt shot seriously 25-30+ years ago. And what do you mean by "nobody on the GOAT list did it like MJ did"? Defense? Overall? Because LeBron has his measure in both categories.

Not to mention if we're talking about "complete" player (not necessarily better, but fewer weaknesses/more overall strengths), LeBron certainly has a better argument.
This makes sense, but we all watched Kobe, a worse version of Jordan, drop 81 points, consecutive 40/50 point games, win MVP and 5 rings in the modern era. To think Jordan couldn’t wouldn’t do the same thing in this era and better, regardless of the advancement in defense and offense, is ridiclous.
 
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Champ_KW

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I would agree with this slightly. Jordan is a better jump shooter, better post up, better on ball defender(please don’t argue this) better at drawing fouls better at perimeter off ball defender better in the clutch while Bron is a better passer, better deep shooter, slightly better at the rim, better rim protector more versatile.

MJ has two seasons with 100 blocks as a 6'6" shooting guard......Bron has zero
 

Rigby.

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A DIRECT RESPONSE TO YOUR VIRGIN ASS
SAYING MJ SUFFERED IN OTHER ASPECTS OF THE GAME
WHEN HE SHOT THREES.
Thats exactly what your father figure said on wax though :dwillhuh: the man said hed have to compromise other parts of his game to be a real 3 pt shooter, Ive never heard any other GOAT shooter say that :mjgrin:
 

Raw Lyrics

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The turn this argument has taken shows what's wrong with this era. 90% of the conversation is about offense. MJ isn't the GOAT strictly based on what he would average in today's game or vice versa. Actually listen to what Ray Allen said. He listed passing as MJ's "weakness" (even though when he was put at point guard he ran off 7 straight triple doubles and 10 in 11 games) cause he didn't pass that much. He then said he had no other weakness in his game. NONE. MJ played defense. Offense will always shift and shape differently when eras change, but the concept of stopping the man in front of you doesn't. Nobody on the GOAT list did it like MJ did. He was the complete player that was great in every aspect of the game and it all translated into titles.


This, even with zone this holds.

When you think Jordan, think combining Kawhi Leonard's defense with Wilt Chamberlain's offensive output...that's Jordan.
 

Roland Coltrane

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Penalized? In what way? Kobe and Jordan are both 6'6 shooting guards so its easy to compare them against each other. LeBron is a 6'8 hybrid sf/pg and Kareem is a 7'2 center. Jordan isn't being penalized at all, its just harder to compare apples to apples.
I mean that cats on here try to knock Jordan for smaller 2s guarding him like John Starks or somebody, but turn a blind eye to Bron literally being bigger by at least 30, 40 pounds than the people defending him


:hula:
 

O.T.I.S.

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call actual NBA players a "legion of trolls" because you're on bron's nuts brehs :dead:
:laff:


Like these fakkits literally are arguing against GREAT nba players opinions...

The amazing part is that they don’t even realize it. They actually think their opinion is > than MULTIPLE Hall of Famers

Or some random BSPN cac’s opinion is >
 

Bilz

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I mean that cats on here try to knock Jordan for smaller 2s guarding him like John Starks or somebody, but turn a blind eye to Bron literally being bigger by at least 30, 40 pounds than the people defending him


:hula:
That's because people are biased as fukk when it comes to their heroes. I can't count how many Kobestans used Craig Ehlo as proof that Jordan was guarded by short unathletic cacs but you'd never hear those idiots talking about Kobe getting checked by a :flabbynsick: Matt Harpring in the playoffs :manny:
 

Gravity

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LMAO I CAN TELL YOU NEVER PLAYED BALL.

IF MJ TOOK 6 THREES A GAME
HE WOULD SHOOT THEM BETTER.

nikkaS KEEP TALKING ABOUT DEFENSES
LIKE CURRY, BRON, KD, HARDEN ETC
DONT RUN THE PICK AND ROLL
AND WIND UP WITH A MISMATCH
DAMN NEAR EVERY POSITION.

JORDAN PLAYING IN THIS CURRENT LEAGUE
WITH BIGS TRYING TO SWITCH OUT ON HIM
WOULD BE HILARIOUS.

I SAW BRON SCORE 50 PTS IN THE FINALS
ON SWITCHES ALL fukkING GAME.

MJ WOULD AVERAGE 40 EASY IN THIS PICK AND ROLL LEAGUE.

SURROUND HIM WITH SHOOTERS
AND ITS OVER.



STOP SPEAKING ON PPL YOU DIDNT SEE PLAY.

HE SHOT 39%
DENVER RAN A GIMMICK OFFENSE,
THAT SEASON,
WERE THE WORSE TEAM IN THE NBA.

NUMBER 1 SCORING TEAM IN THE LEAGUE
AND GOT OUTSCORED BY 11PTS A GAME.

THE EPITOME OF PADDING STATS ON A GARBAGE TEAM.

MEAN WHILE I.T. HAD THE NUMBER 1 SEED
AND MADE THE ECF.
:devil:
:evil:



Basically.


Posting these videos just because i think mike may have been the best layup maker and midrange shooter of all time.

 
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