I told y'all muh'fukkas that Pop's being left behind.....

[Columbo]

Pops not the problem, a Jordan or Kobe caliber player would make the Spurs a championship team

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

Basketball is about flow and taking what the defense gives you. A good coach makes adjustments on the fly and as you see some nights the Spurs take many 3's and some nights they don't. This is what a good coach does. He is flexible and adjust's to the current game. You only look at it from a view of analytics. The best shot is the open shot. You also seem to ignore that missed 3 point shots lead to more fast breaks. So the Spurs could have lost by way more also. You're trying to ignore the possible bad that shooting too many 3's can cause and only highlight the good. Just accept that you made a dumb thread that backfired on you bruh.

Oh look, another poster who has absolutely no idea of what they're talking about; just regurgitating generic talking points as if they mean something. Sad.

 

[malbaker86]

LMA and Derozen and awful 3pt shooters so i don't know why you want them to take more 3s when it WILL NOT SPACE the floor more because defenses will still gladly sag off and give them those shots all game. quite frankly the way you want the spurs to play they don't have the personnel to do so.

And that's what im saying.

DD is a CAREER 28% shooter from deep. Him shooting MORE 3's aint gonna help cause he's trash at it. Kawhi and DD are gone and not only were they eons better defensively than DD, they were/are better 3 point shooters.

People are looking at it from a POTENTIAL positive outcome by assuming if he shot from deep more, he'll automatically make more. Don't always work like that. He plays to his strengths. If they wanna say his "strengths" is a weakness in today's game, they aren't wrong, but the dude aint changing his stripes so you gotta live with it. It would be disastrous if he started chucking from 3 in my opinion

 

[Guile]

No one is coming at Pop for trading away their best 3pt shooter?

 

[malbaker86]

LMA and DeRozan - 4 out of 14 on midrange/long-2s and ZERO 3-pt attempts.

But according to TheColi that doesn't matter: the imbalance of those shots, the efficient-possession deficit, shrinking the floor, and going against basic basketball principles doesn't factor into them losing. Better go tell the other 29 teams that they're doing it wrong, and that they need to abandon the 3-pt shot and start shooting more long-2s.

See this is what im saying....it SEEMS like you're ONLY angling from the assumption that if they subbed those 2's out from 3's, they're in a better position to win.

What @Jplaya2023 and I are saying, is that if you only assuming that terrible long range shooters, as those two are, will in turn make them because they are now spacing the floor, then that's where the kick back is coming from. Say they subbed those shots our for 3's and went 1-18 which is just as realistic given their inefficiency career wise from 3, then we'd lose by even a wider margin. That's another way of looking at it.

I'm not sure if I can check the efficiency/stats by certain line ups, but i'd be interested in seeing how our line up of

Aldridge
Bertans
Rudy
DD
Patty Mills

looks. Bertans is the key. He's suppose to be the Ryan Anderson stretch that y'all want LMA to be. Pop doesn't give him the minutes because it'll hurt us even more on the defensive end.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

And that's what im saying.

DD is a CAREER 28% shooter from deep. Him shooting MORE 3's aint gonna help cause he's trash at it. Kawhi and DD are gone and not only were they eons better defensively than DD, they were/are better 3 point shooters.

People are looking at it from a POTENTIAL positive outcome by assuming if he shot from deep more, he'll automatically make more. Don't always work like that. He plays to his strengths. If they wanna say his "strengths" is a weakness in today's game, they aren't wrong, but the dude aint changing his stripes so you gotta live with it. It would be disastrous if he started chucking from 3 in my opinion

DeRozan shot 31% on 3.6 attempts from behind the arc last season (he shot 35% on catch-and-shoot 3s) and he shot 34% from behind the arc in 2016, that is considerably more efficient than he's shooting from midrange/long-2 this season. I repeat: DeRozan was more efficient on 3s last season than he's on long-2s this season. And there's no reason why he can't improve on that with more reps - he's one of the best shot creators in the league, and can get his shot off from every area, in every situation inside the arc. Not only would he be more efficient taking 3s, rather than long-2s, but it would space the floor more (which would only be of benefit to every player in the lineup, and put more stress on the opposing defense). If Blake muh'fukken Griffin can shoot 36% from 3, what's stopping DeRozan from improving? Are you going to tell me Blake has a better shooting skillset than DeRozan? The Spurs offense needs him to take 3s, they can't keep relying on the role players to do the heavy lifting, which is the state they're in.

This is what's currently happening:

LMA and DeRozan are taking over 14 midrange/long-2s and hitting them at 42%
Opposition x-player and y-player only need to hit their 3-pt shots at 29% to have greater efficiency. Only 29%.

Can you not see how that puts your team in a deficit when you're coming up against players who hit 3s at 35+%? Hitting 3s at 33% is the equivalent of hitting long-2s at 50%. DeRozan and LMA combined only hit theirs at 42%. That's how inefficient they are. Your team is relying on the efforts of the role players to match the efficiency of other teams. You're not going to win in the long run like that.

If Dwayne Casey can implement off-ball actions for DeRozan to shoot from 3, why can't Pop? If Dwayne Casey can implement actions for DeRozan to take more 3s, why can't Pop? Y'all are talking about how Pop's this all-great coach (which granted, he is), yet you're excusing him for not moving with the times like almost every other coach in the league is doing. How does that make sense to you?

If this was any other coach that was stuck in his ways, he'd be called out on it.

See this is what im saying....it SEEMS like You're only angling from the assumption that if they subbed those 2's out from 3's, they're in a better position to win.

Because they would be.

It's the reason why every single team (more specifically starting lineups) take considerably more 3s than long-2s - the Spurs starting unit is the opposite - they take considerably more long-2s than 3s.

What @Jplaya2023 and I are saying, is that if you only assuming that terrible long ramge shooters, as those two are, will in turn make them because they are now spacing the floor, then that's where the kick back is coming from. Say they subbed those shots our for 3's and went 1-18 which is more realistic given their inefficency career wise from 3, then we'd lose by even a wider margin. That's another way of looking at it.

See above.

Even if they shot 29% from behind arc, they'd still be more efficient than they are now from the midrange/long-2, and there's no reason why both of them can't shoot a combined 33% from 3 (at the very least). You can't look at their career-averages because the volume is far too low to take anything meaningful out of it.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

And the looks that DeRozan and LMA are generating from the midrange aren't even open, typically they're with a defender draped all over them, especially in DeRozan's case where he's working on the high-block or dribbling into a contested long-2 - that is literally the worst shot you can take. If they looked to create and shoot from 3, it only stands to reason there would be open looks from the midrange because defenses would be playing them for the 3-pt shot. Defenses know that DeRozan and LMA aren't going to take 3s, so they defend them as if they're going to drive or take a long-2 - do you not see how that puts the Spurs offense at a significant disadvantage to nearly every other team?

DeRozan and LMA are one of the most offensively talented guard-big man duos in the game, yet they're one of the easiest to defend because of the shots they take, and that has a domino effect on the rest of team.

 

[malbaker86]

DeRozan shot 31% on 3.6 attempts from behind the arc last season (he shot 35% on catch-and-shoot 3s) and he shot 34% from behind the arc in 2016, that is considerably more efficient than he's shooting from midrange/long-2 this season. I repeat: DeRozan was more efficient on 3s last season than he's on long-2s this season. And there's no reason why he can't improve on that with more reps - he's one of the best shot creators in the league, and can get his shot off from every area, in every situation inside the arc. Not only would he be more efficient taking 3s, rather than long-2s, but it would space the floor more (which would only be of benefit to every player in the lineup, and put more stress on the opposing defense). If Blake muh'fukken Griffin can shoot 36% from 3, what's stopping DeRozan from improving? Are you going to tell me Blake has a better shooting skillset than DeRozan? The Spurs offense needs him to take 3s, they can't keep relying on the role players to do the heavy lifting, which is the state they're in.

This is what's currently happening:

LMA and DeRozan are taking over 14 midrange/long-2s and hitting them at 42%
Opposition x-player and y-player only need to hit their 3-pt shots at 29% to have greater efficiency. Only 29%.

Can you not see how that puts your team in a deficit when you're coming up against players who hit 3s at 35+%? Hitting 3s at 33% is the equivalent of hitting long-2s at 50%. DeRozan and LMA combined only hit theirs at 42%. That's how inefficient they are. Your team is relying on the efforts of the role players to match the efficiency of other teams. You're not going to win in the long run like that.

If Dwayne Casey can implement off-ball actions for DeRozan to shoot from 3, why can't Pop? If Dwayne Casey can implement actions for DeRozan to take more 3s, why can't Pop? Y'all are talking about how Pop's this all-great coach (which granted, he is), yet you're excusing him for not moving with the times like almost every other coach in the league is doing. How does that make sense to you?

If this was any other coach that was stuck in his ways, he'd be called out on it.

Because they would be.

It's the reason why every single team (more specifically starting lineups) take considerably more 3s than long-2s - the Spurs starting unit is the opposite - they take considerably more long-2s than 3s.

See above.

Even if they shot 29% from behind arc, they'd still be more efficient than they are now from the midrange/long-2, and there's no reason why both of them can't shoot a combined 33% from 3 (at the very least). You can't look at their career-averages because the volume is far too low to take anything meaningful out of it.

And the looks that DeRozan and LMA are generating from the midrange aren't even open, typically they're with a defender draped all over them, especially in DeRozan's case where he's working on the high-block or dribbling into a contested long-2 - that is literally the worst shot you can take. If they looked to create and shoot from 3, it only stands to reason there would be open looks from the midrange because defenses would be playing them for the 3-pt shot. Defenses know that DeRozan and LMA aren't going to take 3s, so they defend them as if they're going to drive or take a long-2 - do you not see how that puts the Spurs offense at a significant disadvantage to nearly every other team?

DeRozan and LMA are one of the most offensively talented guard-big man duos of the league, yet they're one of the easiest to defend.

Good points on both post bruh

More specifically with LMA, like I mentioned earlier when this thread was created, which was basically agreeing with you in regards to him and his shooting and defense and passing (my biggest issues with him personally)

One thing I always said hurt us is that we weren't able to lure Gasol from Memphis and had to get LMA instead. Gasol's post defense and passing was tailor made for us which are two things LMA lacks. He also is a better long range/3 point shooter than LMA.

Now Blake Griffin is actually a good example that you could say LMA could model as he is someone who didn't shoot many 3's prior to the last two seasons but now has no issues with hoisting them. Attempted only 155 total 3's up until the 2016 season but since then has MADE 215 since.

 

[malbaker86]

@Gil Scott-Heroin speaking of Marc Gasol, which is a better example for both of us to us since i'm still caught up on us not signing him, is that he's embraced shooting from deep as well the past two years. Have attempted over 700 the past 3 years as oppose to only 66 in 569 prior games. In doing that, it has prolonged his career and opened the floor for him as he's had his 3 best apg numbers the past 3 years. Dammit, if we could have gotten him but he was never leaving Memphis.

But yes, it def is a combination of DD and LMA not embracing it even though they clearly have the green light in SA, and also Pop not designing an O to where this happens for them as well. He's NOT removed from any blame. I still want to see what happens once we are at full strength next year. Dejounte was working on his deep ball all off season only for him to blow his ACL

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

Good points on both post bruh

More specifically with LMA, like I mentioned earlier when this thread was created, which was basically agreeing with you in regards to him and his shooting and defense and passing (my biggest issues with him personally)

Now Blake Griffin is actually a good example that you could say LMA could model as he is someone who didn't shoot many 3's prior to the last two seasons but now has no issues with hoisting them. Attempted only 155 total 3's up until the 2016 season but since then has MADE 215 since.

And that's the thing, LMA is a better shooter than Blake, the only difference is, Blake abandoned a lot of his midrange activity (he shot 38% from midrange on 9 attempts in 2016 - LMA is shooting 40% from midrange on 7 attempts this season, and he shot 40-44% from the midrange in previous seasons), and now is operating primarily from behind the arc.

If Blake didn't move the times and continued to live in the midrange (which is what LMA is currently doing), his and Detroit's offense would be horrific. I mean the state of their offense isn't great at it is because they lack the overall talent, but if Blake didn't evolve, their team would be in ruins.

If Blake shot worse percentages than LMA from the midrange, and is now shooting 36% from 3, what's stopping LMA from at the very least matching Blake's 3-pt efficiency? Blake's 36% from behind the arc is the equivalent to hitting two-point shots at 55% - now do you think Blake is capable of hitting 55% from the midrange?

@Gil Scott-Heroin speaking of Marc Gasol, which is a better example for both of us to us since i'm still caught up on us not signing him, is that he's embraced shooting from deep as well the past two years. Have attempted over 700 the past 3 years as oppose to only 66 in 569 prior games. In doing that, it has prolonged his career and opened the floor for him as he's had his 3 best apg numbers the past 3 years. Dammit, if we could have gotten him but he was never leaving Memphis.

But yes, it def is a combination of DD and LMA not embracing it even though they clearly have the green light in SA, and also Pop not designing an O to where this happens for them as well. He's NOT removed from any blame. I still want to see what happens once we are at full strength next year. Dejounte was working on his deep ball all off season only for him to blow his ACL

And this is exactly what I mean, big men and guards all over the league have embraced the 3-ball, because they know they have to keep up (it's why nearly every single team is prioritizing 3s over long-2s). We could argue about the 3-ball in an aesthetic sense, but it doesn't matter whether you or me like it or not, it's simply more effective basketball, in every single way. I don't like every single thing about the game in today's climate, but my preference doesn't come into it - I put that all aside and value what's more effective.

It's definitely a shame Murray isn't playing this season, cause I fukks with him, and he only adds another dimension to your team.

 

[Squirrel from Meteor Man]

There's no "bingo" about it (funny how you're saying this @malbaker86, yet you just used a win/loss stat that ignored all other factors, and attributed their losses simply to their 3-pt attempts, with no regards to context on how they actually lost those games).

Nobody is ignoring those "factors", but again, like I need to keep reiterating, because LMA's and DeRozan's activity shrunk the floor, by trading midrange/long-2s (they went 4-14 combined) with the Rockets' 3s, not only did it put them at a points-disadvantage because they couldn't keep pace with the Rockets offense, but it put their role players under more duress to eat into the deficit in the second half.

I'm pointing out an obvious flaw of their offense, that doesn't mean it was the ONLY reason why they lost.

@chowism I don't even know why you're commenting on the game when you didn't even watch it. You just ran to the box score and made up a story from the stats.

Well, then you two have something in common

 

[malbaker86]

And that's the thing, LMA is a better shooter than Blake, the only difference is, Blake abandoned a lot of his midrange activity (he shot 38% from midrange on 9 attempts in 2016 - LMA is shooting 40% from midrange on 7 attempts this season, and he shot 40-44% from the midrange in previous seasons), and now is operating primarily from behind the arc.

If Blake didn't move the times and continued to live in the midrange (which is what LMA is currently doing), his and Detroit's offense would be horrific. I mean the state of their offense isn't great at it is because they lack the overall talent, but if Blake didn't evolve, their team would be in ruins.

If Blake shot worse percentages than LMA from the midrange, and is now shooting 36% from 3, what's stopping LMA from at the very least matching Blake's 3-pt efficiency? Blake's 36% from behind the arc is the equivalent to hitting two-point shots at 55% - now do you think Blake is capable of hitting 55% from the midrange?



And this is exactly what I mean, big men and guards all over the league have embraced the 3-ball, because they know they have to keep up (it's why nearly every single team is prioritizing 3s over long-2s). We could argue about the 3-ball in an aesthetic sense, but it doesn't matter whether you or me like it or not, it's simply more effective basketball, in every single way. I don't like every single thing about the game in today's climate, but my preference doesn't come into it - I put that all aside and value what's more effective.

It's definitely a shame Murray isn't playing this season, cause I fukks with him, and he only adds another dimension to your team.

Low key, it kinda like my Jags. We, more specifically Tom Coughlin, isn't embracing structuring our offense to embrace pushing the ball down the field, the equivalent to shooting 3's, but still think the safe and efficient run first-play action model is still the championship model in today's NFL which is why i laugh when peeps say had we gotten Watson, Mahomes, or any other young QB instead of getting LF7, we'd be better off. Nah, not with how the offense is structured it wouldn't have mattered. it's frustrating to watch

 

[Da King]

So every time the Spurs lose a game, keep in mind they are missing their starting point guard the entire season, this idiotic thread is going to get upped?

 

[NoMorePie]

I cant listen to gil anymore. Too much numbers its like he goes straight to bball reference just to make his point


I like the good old fashioned eye test..

 

[Deafheaven]

So every time the Spurs lose a game, keep in mind they are missing their starting point guard the entire season, this idiotic thread is going to get upped?

They win like the whole month crickets one loss essays. Terrible poster