and failing miserably at it
Religion/Spirituality If God has a plan for everyone how do we have freewill?
- Thread starter hayesc0
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Propaganda
Superstar
now i'm a closet christian
why else would you explain your constant pathetic attempts to discredit "agnostic atheists" over the past few weeks? it's certainly not coming from honest, legitimate curiosity, as it's been clearly explained to you over and over again by multiple people, who even went as far as providing you pictures and graphs and shyt. to put it lightly, at minimum, you have an obvious beef with 'non-deists', so stop acting like a bytch and just say what you're really about. and before you even try...no, you're not about logic.
God don't have no plan for your life like that. That's some kindergarten Sunday School-level theology. God tells you how to go about living your life the right way, and it's your decision whether to listen to him or not.
Some girl gets raped, God didn't say no "my plan was to have this dude here rape this little girl over here." That dude turned away from God and gone and done some pure evil, and his free will meant that his evil really could hurt someone else.
Ok how do u know the rapists turned from gods plan what is your point of reference?
to further elaborate I have plenty of solid explanations for my daily experience that never involve their god
and when I can't explain my world without a deity, I can just say I don't know, I don't need to submit to confirmation biases
whenever they try to explain their daily experience from a godly worldview they stop making sense in significant "do not pass go and go directly to intellectual jail" ways and this is after we allow for the jedi mind trick called faith.
In fact I find that my comfort with my rejection of the god idea is based on their idea of what god is
they've killed god as a concept, because I have watched so many of their concepts die
they help me accept that there is no god because they have monopolized the idea and made it completely ridiculous
yeah because society has the same historical and moral view of both of those thingsCalling me a closet christian just like how christians call them devils when they hit a belief roadblock ...
God is good.
God loves all that he created.
God desires that all turn from their evil ways and chose life.
God especially is concerned for those who suffer, are vulnerable, or are oppressed at the hands of others.
Point of reference, like for all people, is my brain's understanding of all I've seen and read and experienced in my life, but mostly what I understand from how Jesus portrayed God to us and how choosing to believe or not believe certain things about that has affected my live. Jesus was as deep and as good as I can imagine, and I can't see how his God could not be the true God. Jesus told us that God loves everyone, that God desires neither that we suffer nor that we inflict suffering on others. But he also made it clear that we have a choice, and that men who chose evil can indeed inflict suffering. Of course, what we do with that suffering (and how we will be taken in to God afterwards) is a whole 'nother discussin.
So what about a person that is mentally disabled or mentally disturbed in some way and does something that society deems bad does god give them a pass?
You think I can peer into the future and know what God will do with that person? I pray for his grace and compassion for myself. For anyone else, I believe that God will do what is most loving, but that the person still has a choice to follow God or not right now, and probably later too. How that works out, only God knows, I can't judge their eternal state myself. Society should do what's most loving for that person too...which in some cases means making sure they're in a situation where they can't hurt other people, if there's no other way to avoid it.
I think you are missing my point im saying your logic is flawed someone that does not have the mental capacity may not have the ability to make the right choice by your definition.
So how do you explain this?
can an omnipotent being have any desires?
shouldn't they be so instantly fulfilled that they don't exist in enough time to be even called a desire?
or do you not think God is omnipotent?
So how can you know that God has any plans at all?
Evil policies, primarily by the US, Europe, and Egypt, completely screwed over Ethiopia's people when there was far more than enough food to go around and Ethiopia's agricultural productivity should have been just fine. Read the book, "Enough: Why Millions Stare in an Age of Plenty" to get a good run-down of the whole thing.
Months of suffering on the end of short years of life. Horrible.
But if that person is going to be around for eternity, what are the horrors of that time going to look like in the long run?
Now, the mindset that allowed people to make the evil choices that led to that child starving...if they don't get rid of that and it sticks around for eternity, then they don't have anything to look forward to, because callous disregard for others is never going to be a good thing for the soul.
Anyone can make a computer than just does what he wants.
This world is obviously meant to be a lot more than that. You want real love to exist, you got to give real choices.
Could God have created a world with no suffering? Probably, I think so. But that would also be a world with no patience, no sacrifice, no humility, no service, no growth, no transformation, no learning, no hope, and no true love. For those things to exist, there actually has to be a consequence to choices, a possible result other than perfection. Otherwise, we'd all just be spoiled brat entitled rich kids to the 10th degree and moral wastelands.
My definition of the right choice for them has to include the choices that are actually before them. If they don't actually have the mental capacity to make a particular choice, then its not even a choice, and therefore isn't even part of this question. Do you have a different question about things that happen outside of a person's choices?
So how can you know that God has any plans at all?
In a broad sense, I believe that anyone who did something as grand as creating space-time, and as small as putting Jesus within it, must have had a purpose for it all. In a slightly more specific sense, the history of the Judeo-Christian religion looks like it's going somewhere. I think it's logical that such a being would have built the best of all possible worlds. So I chose to trust that its all going to end up in His way, to an extent, in the end.
That doesn't mean that He has any particular specific plan for my part of it, or that I can't screw with things and add more sadness and suffering to the world than God would want there to be. I think we all do that.