If Kyrie stayed attached to Lebron, where would he have ended up ranking all time?

[Harry B]

You are assuming that he wouldn't lack of motivation and wasn't mentally weak if he stayed with Lebron.

You are saying this as if played with Detroit level guys since he left.

 

[Jplaya2023]

Assuming lebron stays in cleveland as well

2018 - Lose in the finals in 6 to the warriors
2019 - Beat the Kd less warriors in 5 games
2020 - win bubble ship
2021 - lose to greek in the ECF
2022 - beat the warriors in 6 in the finals
2023 - lose to denver in the finals

 

[Braman]

LeBron didn’t drag AD anywhere. AD was the best player on the team the year they won the title.

2020 regular season
Bron: 25.3, 10.2, apg, 7.8rpg
AD: 26.2, 9.3rpg, 3apg, 2.5bpg

2020 playoffs
Bron: 27.6, 10.8, 8.8
AD: 27.7, 9.7, 3.6, 1.5bpg

2020 finals
Bron: 29.8, 11.8, 8
AD: 25, 10.7, 3, 2bpg

But of course, this is the part where you say numbers aren’t everything and ‘you didn’t watch the games’. But that’s not even that point…

1- Can’t have it both ways. You can’t say Bron would ‘drag down’ his #2 but then also say that #2 was the ‘best player on the team’.

2- ‘Drag’ —-in quotes—-was in reply to his use of the word. The meaning here is AD—-and Kyrie after him—both put up their same numbers with or without Lebron. They are both great, with or without Lebron. But it’s with Lebron that they were elevated to a title, the greatest platform, to be remembered as one of the greats. There is no ‘shot’ from Kyrie if you can’t get to the gotdamn finals. There is no dual 41 & 41 game if you can’t get to the gotdamn finals.

So it’s quite clear Bron has brought the best out of AD and Kyrie from that perspective. Yall can hate dude til you blue in the face but that won’t ever change.

 

[In The Zone '98]

Kyrie will miss 20 games a season or whole playoffs

So who the hell knows

It's 50/50 if he'll get thru this season

 

[kdslittlebro]

fukk the Cavs shyt, he fukked up one of the best offenses of all time on some goofy shyt in BK. At least the Cavs had a basketball reason behind it (still probably his best situation, but I at least see his viewpoint with the circus)

 

[10bandz]

LeGBT going out sad

 

[Soldier]

Boston played better without him, Scary Hours in Brooklyn was a fiasco and Dallas isn't going anywhere. We can debate for hours about his skills, production and whether these facts are his fault or not, but he just happens to be a common denominator. How many playoffs series has he won since leaving Bron, two?

2019 :the four-seeded Celtics won their first round series- it was a quick sweep of the fifth-ranked pacers. They lost to first place Milwaukee in 5 games the next round.

2021 : the nets beat Boston in 5 games in the first round. Brooklyn lost to Milwaukee in 7 next round.

those are the only playoff series Kyrie won without Lebron on his team.

 

[seemorecizzy]

Kyrie left da perfect situation for no reason and i think he realizes it now. Bron had no problen defferring to him, and always gave him nuff credit.

That "being your own man" move made no sense. It was different when Kobe did it cause Shaq was hating on him, and said he couldn't win without him.

He wanted to be da number 1 guy but a lot comes with that and not everyone can deal with that on and off the court. Bron took mad pressure off him, and like KD in GS, all he had to do was go out there and hoop.

 

[No1]

2020 regular season
Bron: 25.3, 10.2, apg, 7.8rpg
AD: 26.2, 9.3rpg, 3apg, 2.5bpg

2020 playoffs
Bron: 27.6, 10.8, 8.8
AD: 27.7, 9.7, 3.6, 1.5bpg

2020 finals
Bron: 29.8, 11.8, 8
AD: 25, 10.7, 3, 2bpg

But of course, this is the part where you say numbers aren’t everything and ‘you didn’t watch the games’. But that’s not even that point…

1- Can’t have it both ways. You can’t say Bron would ‘drag down’ his #2 but then also say that #2 was the ‘best player on the team’.

2- ‘Drag’ —-in quotes—-was in reply to his use of the word. The meaning here is AD—-and Kyrie after him—both put up their same numbers with or without Lebron. They are both great, with or without Lebron. But it’s with Lebron that they were elevated to a title, the greatest platform, to be remembered as one of the greats. There is no ‘shot’ from Kyrie if you can’t get to the gotdamn finals. There is no dual 41 & 41 game if you can’t get to the gotdamn finals.

So it’s quite clear Bron has brought the best out of AD and Kyrie from that perspective. Yall can hate dude til you blue in the face but that won’t ever change.

I don’t hate anything and I didn’t say LeBron wasn’t great too. You just wrote a manifesto out of nowhere because I used the plain meaning of your words. Nothing you said invalidates what I said and your projection has no effect. No one hates LeBron here but you claimed that he dragged an All NBA player somewhere when said player was also the best defensive player in the NBA on top of his offensive production. Anthony Davis at his best is simply more impactful than Kyrie. Kyrie has never been in contention for top 5 in the league, AD was and when healthy is a consensus top 10 player. Kyrie has maybe one season when he was that.

All that other stuff you typed is you trying to clean up that nonsense after the fact and that’s your business.

 

[In The Zone '98]

Kyrie left da perfect situation for no reason and i think he realizes it now. Bron had no problen defferring to him, and always gave him nuff credit.

That "being your own man" move made no sense. It was different when Kobe did it cause Shaq was hating on him, and said he couldn't win without him.

He wanted to be da number 1 guy but a lot comes with that and not everyone can deal with that on and off the court. Bron took mad pressure off him, and like KD in GS, all he had to do was go out there and hoop.

Ehhh, Bron tried to backdoor him with a Paul George trade

 

[The God Poster]

Pretty sure Bron was always heading to LA
So after one more season where they would've lost to the Warriors again, that would've left Kyrie stuck in Cleveland with a rapidly declining Love and the team would've been mid

This
I distinctly remember the narrative of Bron possibly dipping.

He’d have been a fool to stand pat.

 

[seemorecizzy]

Ehhh, Bron tried to backdoor him with a Paul George trade

you know what,
i forgot about that.
You are absolutely right.

That was da real reason he left

 

[Shadow King]

The same. LeBron doesn't make Kyrie more durable and with LeBron's own durability taking a hit it's not likely to be the duo people project them to be.

LeBron didn’t drag AD anywhere. AD was the best player on the team the year they won the title.

And this thread is pure stannery because he has no business being an all star with 29 games played. De’Aaron Fox is the actual snub.

 

[Shadow King]

Kobe saw the obvious similarities to his path and Kyrie's. Who better for Kyrie to take advice from? Someone who dealt with the same situation

Like Kobe he...


-felt trapped in a larger than life shadow
-felt like he was contributing just as much
-wanted the glory for himself

problem was....he wasn't Kobe

He's as talented as Kobe was...maybe even more.

But he always lacked that mental makeup to be the franchise guy. Which means he couldn't actually follow in Kobe's path.


To his credit he figured it out and tried to get back into that secondary role....but he didn't have the kind of chemistry with KD or Luka like he did with Bron. The closest other fit with him was Harden for like 20 games.

If he doesn't dip out on Bron, Cleveland probably wins at least another chip. he also doesn't get snubbed off that top 75 list either. Gets the nod off all those 50/50 all Nba and allstar teams just off the strength of playing with the most popular player.

Him and Bron would be etched in history on the short list of GOAT duos. Meaning his career is totally different than whatever the fukk it turned out to be.

No. You went a bit too far.

 

[concise]

Kyrie was always going to make his own path. Even if he stayed with Bron another year or two in Cleveland, his personality was going to activate and he would have turned into the team hopper he is today.