If Kyrie stayed attached to Lebron, where would he have ended up ranking all time?

murksiderock

murksiderock

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Bron and Kyrie, let's say an alternate reality, stay together with their same abilities until 2021...

2018 they probably lose to GS but if they get that G1, it could be similar to almost getting G1 in 2015. Meaning, they win that first game, could shift the dynamic of the series...

The '18 Ws were better than the '15 iteration so I think Cleveland still loses but it's not a sweep and probably goes 6...

2019 Toronto barely scraped by a Simmons/Embiid Process 76ers, took a last minute G7 buzzer beater to beat that team. No way you're convincing me the Raptors beat a Bron/Ky Cavs team, fukk outta here. Milwaukee would be food vs the Cavs...

They get a beat up GS in The Finals, that's two chips in 5 years...

2020 they run thru The East and get Kawhi's Clippers in The Finals. Those Clippers choked to the Nuggets, ain't no one from the West beating them. That's 3 rings in 6 years...

2021 the first year theres real East competition. I can see them losing to this iteration of the Bucks or Nets...

So tops, Kyrie/Cavs max out at 3 rings. And he's viewed much, much differently. We'd be calling Kyrie a GOAT25 player...
 
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concise said:
Kyrie was always going to make his own path. Even if he stayed with Bron another year or two in Cleveland, his personality was going to activate and he would have turned into the team hopper he is today.
Click to expand...
So Kyrie gets the team hopper label playing with Lebron :jbhmm:
 
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murksiderock said:
Bron and Kyrie, let's say an alternate reality, stay together with their same abilities until 2021...

2018 they probably lose to GS but if they get that G1, it could be similar to almost getting G1 in 2015. Meaning, they win that first game, could shift the dynamic of the series...

The '18 Ws were better than the '15 iteration so I think Cleveland still loses but it's not a sweep and probably goes 6...

2019 Toronto barely scraped by a Simmons/Embiid Process 76ers, took a last minute G7 buzzer beater to beat that team. No way you're convincing me the Raptors beat a Bron/Ky Cavs team, fukk outta here. Milwaukee would be food vs the Cavs...

They get a beat up GS in The Finals, that's two chips in 5 years...

2020 they run thru The East and get Kawhi's Clippers in The Finals. Those Clippers choked to the Nuggets, ain't no one from the West beating them. That's 3 rings in 6 years...

2021 the first year theres real East competition. I can see them losing to this iteration of the Bucks or Nets...

So tops, Kyrie/Cavs max out at 3 rings. And he's viewed much, much differently. We'd be calling Kyrie a GOAT25 player...
Click to expand...
2019 is when Bron lost his android durability. Same ability means same availability and Kyrie isn't beating any of the East contenders solo.

2020 the Clippers lost to Denver in Round 2, Bron in the East doesn't change that. Seeding may end up different but if they choked to them in Round 2 they'd choke in the WCF or Round 1.

Meanwhile Kyrie also played 20 games that year. His injury deemed him unessential in the bubble which is why he tried to call that boycott. Bron at that stage couldn't carry Cleveland to 50+ wins and contention with 20 games of Kyrie. They don't win that year either.
 
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steph_harden said:
Kobe saw the obvious similarities to his path and Kyrie's. Who better for Kyrie to take advice from? Someone who dealt with the same situation

Like Kobe he...


-felt trapped in a larger than life shadow
-felt like he was contributing just as much
-wanted the glory for himself

problem was....he wasn't Kobe :francis:
Click to expand...

Nah.

It was TERRIBLE advice and the absolute last person to take it from. No offense to Kobe. :whoa: But Kobe was chasing Jordan and wanted to be Goat. In that context, uhhh ok leave a perfect situation for perfect-er brehs

That would not work for Kyrie, for a bunch of reasons and nothing to do with ‘MamBa mEntAlIty‘. First he’s a pg, not a wing. 6’3 vs 6’6. 2nd Bron was already top 2 all time after the Cleveland ring. Kyrie should have known he wasn’t winning that battle. Lastly they only got 1 ring :heh: Even Kobe waited for Shaq to get him 3 before hopping off the ride
 
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steph_harden said:
Kobe saw the obvious similarities to his path and Kyrie's. Who better for Kyrie to take advice from? Someone who dealt with the same situation

Like Kobe he...


-felt trapped in a larger than life shadow
-felt like he was contributing just as much
-wanted the glory for himself

problem was....he wasn't Kobe :francis:

He's as talented as Kobe was...maybe even more.

But he always lacked that mental makeup to be the franchise guy. Which means he couldn't actually follow in Kobe's path.


To his credit he figured it out and tried to get back into that secondary role....but he didn't have the kind of chemistry with KD or Luka like he did with Bron. The closest other fit with him was Harden for like 20 games.

If he doesn't dip out on Bron, Cleveland probably wins at least another chip. he also doesn't get snubbed off that top 75 list either. Gets the nod off all those 50/50 all Nba and allstar teams just off the strength of playing with the most popular player.

Him and Bron would be etched in history on the short list of GOAT duos. Meaning his career is totally different than whatever the fukk it turned out to be.
Click to expand...

Sad part is I agree with you that he should've thought twice about leaving Bron but, at the same time, could Kyrie have trusted LeBron to not trade him :francis: or to not leave him stuck in Cleveland on a terrible team like they did Kevin Love :francis: I think that added to Kyrie's decision to leave.

If LeBron and Kyrie sat down and were both honest with each other about where they wanted to be in the next 5 years and followed through with the contracts they wouldn't have slimed each other out.
 
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Jplaya2023 said:
Assuming lebron stays in cleveland as well

2018 - Lose in the finals in 6 to the warriors
2019 - Beat the Kd less warriors in 5 games
2020 - win bubble ship
2021 - lose to greek in the ECF
2022 - beat the warriors in 6 in the finals
2023 - lose to denver in the finals
Click to expand...

I buy this breakdown. All Bron had to do was stay in Cleveland.

Could've had 6 rings with four of them being in Cleveland, would've made his resume ironclad :smh:
 
steph_harden

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Shadow King said:
It's closer to a stretch than not, and if you're speaking on raw natural ability than it absolutely is.
Click to expand...

Not sure how you can definitively say that Kobe had more raw talent unless you’re factoring his athleticism. You wouldn’t be wrong if you felt that way.

But Kyrie is clearly one of the most gifted naturally talented athletes to touch a basketball…especially since he wasn’t known for a having a maniacal work ethic like Kobe did.
 
steph_harden

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Ozymandeas said:
Sad part is I agree with you that he should've thought twice about leaving Bron but, at the same time, could Kyrie have trusted LeBron to not trade him :francis: or to not leave him stuck in Cleveland on a terrible team like they did Kevin Love :francis: I think that added to Kyrie's decision to leave.

If LeBron and Kyrie sat down and were both honest with each other about where they wanted to be in the next 5 years and followed through with the contracts they wouldn't have slimed each other out.
Click to expand...

Bron was like biggest Kyrie stan in the league. He actually still is. He was the one player he would have stayed loyal too.

People still mention him trying to trade him for Pg but it actually Love going to Denver in a 3 way and the Cavs would have had Bron, Kyrie and Pg on the same team
 
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steph_harden said:
Not sure how you can definitively say that Kobe had more raw talent unless you’re factoring his athleticism. You wouldn’t be wrong if you felt that way.

But Kyrie is clearly one of the most gifted naturally talented athletes to touch a basketball…especially since he wasn’t known for a having a maniacal work ethic like Kobe did.
Click to expand...
I am factoring in athleticism, because to me you can't say "raw talent" without it, and the gap between them in that department is bigger than the gap in skill.

For talent to be "raw" it's implied that it's God-given/non-honed partially or completely.
 
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