Im Having Trouble Understanding How Socialism Would Work in This Country

[Wild self]

Which countries though?

You peel back the layers on these arguments and it's just bad faith. There are no countries they mean.

We worried about a brain drain to the Caymans?

All the first world countries outsde of America have socialist programs and a higher tax rate. All these billionaires have left is fleeing to some 3rd world country with a warm climate and very little social mobility for the average citizen.

 

[wtfyomom]

You say this as if every business is going to suddenly be taken over by the gov. Bernie is not even real socialism he’s social democracy

 

[SunZoo]

 

[DEAD7]

All the first world countries outsde of America have socialist programs and a higher tax rate. All these billionaires have left is fleeing to some 3rd world country with a warm climate and very little social mobility for the average citizen.

Canada
Highest individual income tax rate: 33 percent
Corporate tax rate: 26.5 percent
New Zealand
Highest individual income tax rate: 33 percent
Corporate tax rate: 28 percent
Singapore
Highest individual income tax rate: 22 percent
Corporate tax rate: 17 percent

The rich are not only the most mobile demographic, but the demographic most proficient at moving(and hiding) money.
The question im asking is what if they do... I'm not stating they will.
I used France as a recent example of the rich relocating when targeted by higher tax rates.



Its amazing how sure progressives are of how irrational actors will act.
I suppose you have to be sure(or tell yourself you're sure) or your positions fall apart.
I can tell you straightly, I have no idea how they will respond, and what the actual cost to our economy will be.

 

[wtfyomom]

them leaving or not is honestly irrelevant to me. their current games are unsustainable. so you either force them or you dont, ok give up the biggest consumer market in the world. go sell products in the caymans and Bangladesh if thats where you want to hide money and outsource. fukk you lets see how you do. the alternative to not doing it is basically keep letting them get away with hoarding money and then what? its an unsustainable system. everyone always has issues with a progressive agenda as if we are giving up something. no the system now is trash. just throwing up your hands is not the answer

 

[DEAD7]

no the system now is trash. just throwing up your hands is not the answer

ahhhh, the old agree with our solution or your for doing nothing play.


Anywho, the issue for me is cost/benefit.
Without knowing what those are, I don’t see how anyone can be so certain anything is the best way forward and won’t make things worse...

 

[wtfyomom]

ahhhh, the old agree with our solution or your for doing nothing play.


Anywho, the issue for me is cost/benefit.
Without knowing what those are, I don’t see how anyone can be so certain this is the best way forward and won’t make things worse...

i honestly dont know lol but i dont think anyone does.like you said its all irrational actors. but to me, if people are saying well tax the rich, the retort of , theyll just hide their money, feels very much like a defeatist attitude to me.

 

[jj23]

We don't need socialism in this country.

Materially improving the standard of living and quality of life of the average American only requires a few simple changes:

1) Tariffs on imports from low-wage / environmentally destructive countries (incentivizes repatriation of manufacturing)

Trade war with China. Not going so well so far.

2) Mass deportation of illegal immigrants (raises wages at the low end of the job market while removing a significant driver of real estate inflation and reduces stress on aging infrastructure)
Trumps is working on it, but are the numbers reflecting this? And how much is the ICE task force costing? How about the family separations?

3) Significant reduction in the number of legal immigrants (raises wages for white-collar workers)
That is an over simplification, how would collar wages rise? Are we saying that legal immigrants are paid less for white collar jobs?



Higher wages, lower rents / house prices, and a much healthier job mix (bias to manufacturing rather than services). Wins all around.

How do you propose getting house and rent prices lowered? Without a market crash it's not that simple..

You can fool around on the margins with higher taxes on billionaires, financial transaction taxes, etc. - but none of those changes will have anywhere near the impact of the three changes I listed above.

Bottom line is Americans aren't generally an envious people. It doesn't bother folks that they aren't rich - it bothers them that the paths to building wealth are shrinking every day.

All GOP proposals that seem correct but havent been shown to work in theory.

 

[Pressure]

All GOP proposals that seem correct but havent been shown to work in theory Practice.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Canada
Highest individual income tax rate: 33 percent
Corporate tax rate: 26.5 percent
New Zealand
Highest individual income tax rate: 33 percent
Corporate tax rate: 28 percent
Singapore
Highest individual income tax rate: 22 percent
Corporate tax rate: 17 percent

Those numbers are misleading because they don't have they ridiculous deductions and work-arounds in their systems that the American system has. They also don't factor in province taxes - income tax is collected in EVERY Canadian province (unlike several US states) and it can be higher than federal income tax for high earners. For example, once the state and federal tax are added together, the marginal rate for someone in Quebec after the first $200 grand is 53%. The average rich person in Canada is certainly paying more in taxes than the average rich person in America.

 

[BillBanneker]

All GOP proposals that seem correct but havent been shown to work in theory.

Do you really understand America breh?

 

[jj23]

Do you really understand America breh?

Lol, no...no I dont...

 

[analog]

Would the additional proposed measures even be required if the current loopholes were closed and the wealthy individuals and corporations were forced to pay taxes on their annual incomes?

These folks aren't going to find a better place to make money so their asses are staying put. Easier said than done but that has to be the start.

Whatever new proposed tax is going to be moot if they can still be legally circumvented

 

[EndDomination]

We don't need socialism in this country.

Materially improving the standard of living and quality of life of the average American only requires a few simple changes:

1) Tariffs on imports from low-wage / environmentally destructive countries (incentivizes repatriation of manufacturing)

2) Mass deportation of illegal immigrants (raises wages at the low end of the job market while removing a significant driver of real estate inflation and reduces stress on aging infrastructure)

3) Significant reduction in the number of legal immigrants (raises wages for white-collar workers)

Higher wages, lower rents / house prices, and a much healthier job mix (bias to manufacturing rather than services). Wins all around.

You can fool around on the margins with higher taxes on billionaires, financial transaction taxes, etc. - but none of those changes will have anywhere near the impact of the three changes I listed above.

Bottom line is Americans aren't generally an envious people. It doesn't bother folks that they aren't rich - it bothers them that the paths to building wealth are shrinking every day.

 

[NZA]

have you seen california, breh? they can have all the best companies in the world located there and it has no positive effect on millions of people. the average joe is either struggling while having several college degrees or living in feces and dirty needles, and if they are not in that condition today, the trend is they will be a few years later. the threat to move means nothing if you already dont pay much in taxes. this is like a woman in a sexless marriage threatening to leave you. this is why yang is more popular than kamala in her own state.