Is Jay-Z the consensus GoAT at this point?

[OG Talk]

he had 10 albums before that, thats not longevity? Especially in this genre?

and at the very least he's still a top 5 rapper in 2014

Do you want a list of rappers that have released at least 10 albums? <------that was a rhetorical question btw


Jay-Z isn't a top 20 rapper in 2014.. You should listen to more music...

 

[Julius Skrrvin]

even nas stans' goldenchild knows whos real

That's why it's hard to take some of these guys seriously when it comes to talking about Hov, his music, and his impact. It's a lot of denial going on, especially from older heads who can't grasp his influence on this generation

For example, peep this thread spreading more light on the situation

If the truth gets put in their face, they turn away with hurt feelings

http://www.thecoli.com/threads/how-do-you-feel-about-everyone-in-tde-and-drake-being-a-jay-z-stan.191721/

 

[Boolean]

That's why it's hard to take some of these guys seriously when it comes to talking about Hov, his music, and his impact. It's a lot of denial going on, especially from older heads who can't grasp his influence on this generation

For example, peep this thread spreading more light on the situation

If the truth gets put in their face, they turn away with hurt feelings

http://www.thecoli.com/threads/how-do-you-feel-about-everyone-in-tde-and-drake-being-a-jay-z-stan.191721/

the pleas in that thread

some dude said calling hov the GOAT was politically correct , i could've sworn that the politically correct way was the nas way

 

[Julius Skrrvin]

the pleas in that thread

some dude said calling hov the GOAT was politically correct , i could've sworn that the politically correct way was the nas way

they got real mad at me.... Not even for , just for quoting artists out right now. You can tell that some of these dudes have been stewing away at keyboards angrily since Ether dropped mad that Hov didn't roll over and disappear homehow and now have to resort to weak tactics to make their points.

As far as political correctness and GOAT, I think that depends on where you are and who you ask. On this board it's definitely the 'correct' choice to pick Pac or Nas though.

 

[Bolzmark]

There are two different GOATS...Jay is definetly one of them and is in the argument for the other. The biggest problem with this discussion is dudes are arguing different things. When some argue GOAT, they are talking about RAP SKILLS ONLY. In that case there are several potential MC's in the discussion - Jay, Nas, Rakim, BIG, etc. The other kind of GOAT is not just rap skills, but also longevity, influence, discography, longevity at or near the top(for example LL still releases music so he has more longevity than Jay as far as # of years in the game, but of course nobody cares about LL's music in 2014 so he's not at or near the top), sales, etc. Basically a rappers whole career. For this GOAT, it is unquestionably Jay-Z.

 

[No1]

That's why it's hard to take some of these guys seriously when it comes to talking about Hov, his music, and his impact. It's a lot of denial going on, especially from older heads who can't grasp his influence on this generation

For example, peep this thread spreading more light on the situation

If the truth gets put in their face, they turn away with hurt feelings

http://www.thecoli.com/threads/how-do-you-feel-about-everyone-in-tde-and-drake-being-a-jay-z-stan.191721/

They can't deal with the fact that Jay-Z was able to cross the bridge to influence another generation while their favorite emcees could not. Half of that other stuff sounds dated to people 26 and under. Just because it was first doesn't make it better. I respect all legends, and what they did for the game but very few people are able to be objective about this stuff while still rating guys who don't get credit like FreshAIG can. The fact of the matter is this. I can put my younger cousins onto RD, BP and TBA much more easily than I can put them onto a lot of other rappers that we call legends. When discussing appeal you have to factor in one's ability to cross generations. People sit here and pretend that the rappers that came before Jay (because no one that came out after his era can reasonably argued as better) decided to stop being hot and it wasn't them that stopped listening to them. I wasn't old enough to make those older guys played out....YOU GUYS DID THAT. Now suddenly we're going to sit here and pretend that being hot for nearly 20 years (unprecedented) doesn't matter. This is despite a backlash of him being too old and needing to step aside, the same way the older guard were looked past when the 90s era came about. People try to seriously eliminate that type of appeal when having these arguments because if you don't do that, then Jay is the favorite in any discussion. I go back and forth between Jay and Nas, but to pretend that Jay doesn't have arguably the most convincing argument in the history of hip hop is nonsense.

 

[Julius Skrrvin]

They can't deal with the fact that Jay-Z was able to cross the bridge to influence another generation while their favorite emcees could not. Half of that other stuff sounds dating to people 26 and under. Just because it was first doesn't make it better. I respect all legends, and what they did for the game but very few people are able to be objective about this stuff while still rating guys who don't get credit like FreshAIG can. The fact of the matter is this. I can put my younger cousins onto RD, BP and TBA much more easily than I can put them onto a lot of other rappers that we call legends. When discussing appeal you have to factor in one's ability to cross generations. People sit here and pretend that the rappers that came before Jay (because no one that came out after his era can reasonably argued as better) decided to stop being hot and it wasn't them that stopped listening to them. I wasn't old enough to make those older guys played out....YOU GUYS DID THAT. Now suddenly we're going to sit here and pretend that being hot for nearly 20 years (unprecedented) doesn't matter. This is despite a backlash of him being too old and needing to step aside, the same way the older guard were looked past when the 90s era came about. People try to seriously eliminate that type of appeal when having these arguments because if you don't do that, then Jay is the favorite in any discussion. I go back and forth between Jay and Nas, but to pretend that Jay doesn't have arguably the most convincing argument in the history of hip hop is nonsense.

The crazy thing about this is that.. I love 80s hip hop and i'm a 90s baby. My original username on here was a G Rap pun, I love KRS and Kane for example. But the flows and beats from that era didn't always age so well like you said. And you're also right that the only people to blame for them falling off in relevance etc are the old heads . The thing about Jay's situation that has people looking at him with the is more than age, it's also his content and the way they want him to be a father figure socially as well since he has more money. But at the same time, they reject his attempts at conscious music for the most part and say they're pandering etc. He's in an awkward position artistically that makes people look back on his shyt poorly. I don't think he needs to step aside, but there is strength to the idea that since he's so rich now he can 'stop dumbing down to double his dollars' and make something more focused and timeless.

 

[really]

-FACT - Biggie / Pac Dominated the 90s sales
-FACT - Eminem / Nelly Dominated the 2,000's sales
-FACT - Biggie, Pac, Eminem, 50, Luda, Nelly have more #1 hits than him
-FACT - Jay-Z sold the most albums only 1 year in his career, 2006 (Kindom come, worst album, top 5 players injured: 50, Kanye, Eminem, Wayne didn't drop albums)
-FACT - Eminem is the best selling rap artist of all time
-FACT - Biggie, Pac, Eminem average more platinum plaques per album than Jay
-FACT - Jay-Z only has the 16th best selling rap album of all time, Biggie, 2pac, Eminem all have albums above him
-FACT - Eminem, Lil Wayne, 50 and almost Kanye, have all sold 1 million in their first week.. Something Jay-Z has openly said he wish he could do (but NEVER will)
-FACT - Lil Wayne has the most hits on the Billboard hot 100 of any rapper ever
-FACT - While Big / Pac were alive, Jay-Z never went better than platinum... He went Multi the year after Biggie released his last album.
-FACT - Jay-Z has 12 #1 albums... Graduation / Curtis were released on same day... Graduation #1 album.... Curtis #2 album.... American Gangster #1 album... Curtis outsold American Gangster. (translation, #1 album means NOTHING, the stats above are the meaningful stats)



Jay-Z on Tom Ford: "Numbers don't lie, Check the Scoreboard!" ----> ScoreBoard


/thread


#FactsOnly


Ps, How can a Camel be Goat? . .....

 

[KeysT]

There are two different GOATS...Jay is definetly one of them and is in the argument for the other. The biggest problem with this discussion is dudes are arguing different things. When some argue GOAT, they are talking about RAP SKILLS ONLY. In that case there are several potential MC's in the discussion - Jay, Nas, Rakim, BIG, etc. The other kind of GOAT is not just rap skills, but also longevity, influence, discography, longevity at or near the top(for example LL still releases music so he has more longevity than Jay as far as # of years in the game, but of course nobody cares about LL's music in 2014 so he's not at or near the top), sales, etc. Basically a rappers whole career. For this GOAT, it is unquestionably Jay-Z.

This.

 

[scuba]

Jay-Z is the plurality GOAT. Consensus means he would have to be near unanimously viewed as the GOAT and that aint true.

 

[Mike Otherz]

too many bitten lines, too inconsistent. its sad cause after black album he had a strong case. but nas resurgence, kanye excellence has come and passed him by.

as for kanye carrying him, i actually think beyonce and kanye made jay wack. jay was at his best rapping bout killing people over primo beats. that euro sensitive exisential crisis whisper flow jay been a bad look. what made jay great was he complicated that gully rap, with his light voice and unorthordox rhyme style and solid reasonings.

 

[Balan]

Jay-Z hasn't put out a good album in 7 years..To put that in perspective, Pac's WHOLE rap career spanded 4 years..

The longer he raps the more damage he does to his legacy....If he's still rapping about how he "used to sell crack" and how "rocky his wrist" is at the age of 50 (which at this rate is a real possibility) he might fall out of the top 10 all together...


Right now he's inbetween 5-8...

Nas hasnt put out a good album since Stillmatic so that makes it what? 13 years?

 

[Balan]

I Gave You Power says otherwise friend

But the thing is Nas groupie that Nas cant make them feel good/club tracks and when he does attempt to do it he sounds awkward as fukk

 

[Bickin Back Being Bool]

-FACT - Biggie / Pac Dominated the 90s sales
-FACT - Eminem / Nelly Dominated the 2,000's sales
-FACT - Biggie, Pac, Eminem, 50, Luda, Nelly have more #1 hits than him
-FACT - Jay-Z sold the most albums only 1 year in his career, 2006 (Kindom come, worst album, top 5 players injured: 50, Kanye, Eminem, Wayne didn't drop albums)
-FACT - Eminem is the best selling rap artist of all time
-FACT - Biggie, Pac, Eminem average more platinum plaques per album than Jay
-FACT - Jay-Z only has the 16th best selling rap album of all time, Biggie, 2pac, Eminem all have albums above him
-FACT - Eminem, Lil Wayne, 50 and almost Kanye, have all sold 1 million in their first week.. Something Jay-Z has openly said he wish he could do (but NEVER will)
-FACT - Lil Wayne has the most hits on the Billboard hot 100 of any rapper ever
-FACT - While Big / Pac were alive, Jay-Z never went better than platinum... He went Multi the year after Biggie released his last album.
-FACT - Jay-Z has 12 #1 albums... Graduation / Curtis were released on same day... Graduation #1 album.... Curtis #2 album.... American Gangster #1 album... Curtis outsold American Gangster. (translation, #1 album means NOTHING, the stats above are the meaningful stats)



Jay-Z on Tom Ford: "Numbers don't lie, Check the Scoreboard!" ----> ScoreBoard


/thread


#FactsOnly


Ps, How can a Camel be Goat? . .....

stop bringing up numbers dumbass, all you're doing is bringing up dead and irrelevant rappers, and you're only hurting nas stans with this bullsh!t.

 

[OG Talk]

Nas hasnt put out a good album since Stillmatic so that makes it what? 13 years?

Ad hominem attacks and red herrings about Nas...




If you guys really believed in your points, it seems like you could just let them stand their own merits...

Try to be better...