Is the lack of new starpower a real concern or do we just have to give it time?

[Straw Hat Luffy]

Who said he wasn't a draw I said he's not an icon (dude was putting him in the same breath as taker and cena) Nor is he popular to be on a Kelly, SNL or GMA

Wwe put Finn balor GMA a month after his debut on the main roster.

 

[Roman Brady]

He's not a megastar that's on big movie screens but he's still a huge star in the wrestling world where he's crossed over in current pop culture with the rko before I don't know how you can discredit that.

dude was talking about undertaker and cena and somehow Orton found his name there. You don't think one of those names is not like the others? how do you know those ppl were doing the RKO? They could have been feeling the self high 5

Why would you say something like this? You got into a discussion over a wrestler in the wrestling section. Sounds like a I know you are but what am I answer.

because first he negged me now he's lowering himself to using insults, now either he's ridiculously young or a bit too emotionally involved with this form of entertainment, cuz that's not normal anyway you slice it

 

[Roman Brady]

Wwe put Finn balor GMA a month after his debut on the main roster.

The show doesn't have the same prestige today, at the height of orton's push Regis was still hosting and I don't recall Orton ever featuring

 

[Straw Hat Luffy]

dude was talking about undertaker and cena and somehow Orton found his name there. You don't think one of those names is not like the others? how do you know those ppl were doing the RKO? They could have been feeling the self high 5




because he first negged me now he's lowering himself to using insults, now either he's ridiculously young or he's a bit too emotionally involved with this form of entertainment cuz that's not normal

See I didn't know this previous information going in that's my fault.

 

[45123]

See I didn't know this previous information going in that's my fault.

That dude failed to read the part of the OP and the countless posts in this thread where I made the distinction between guys like Cena/Rock/Austin/Hogan and guys like Taker/Orton/HHH/Brock. Orton's an icon but never did I say he was a Mt Rushmore god tier A+ star on Cena's level. And that should be obvious. And I negged him cuz he's an annoying troll

 

[45123]

How I think I'd rank the stars of this industry (likely a couple discrepancies depending on who you ask):

A+ (Mt Rushmore god level):
Hogan
Austin
Rock
Cena
Flair
Savage
Andre

A- (Icons):
Taker
HHH
Warrior (Almost A+ but I'm not sure how much he transcends generations)
Orton
Vince McMahon
Sting
Goldberg
Dusty
Mysterio
Brock
Roman (Probably not yet but he's on the trajectory)
Angle
Kane
Batista (But my opinion on his popularity could be warped cuz he was one of my generation's top stars)
HBK
Bret
Razor
DiBiase
Piper
Big Show (Although I teeter on him being A- or B+)

B+ (Bonafide top guys/draws):
Foley (I also teeter on him being A- or B+ but his reign on top was leprechauns)
Jericho
Bryan
Punk
Eddie (Would be A- if he didn't pass right at the start of his prime)
L.O.D.
Perfect
Sheik
Jake
Luger
Edge
Ambrose
Rollins
Diesel
Slaughter

B- (Top guys/draws but not always as known or always in the main event):
Rude
DDP
Yoko
Steamboat
JYD
Vader
Booker
Benoit
Steiner
Sid
Snuka
Chyna
Hacksaw
Jeff Hardy
Owens
RVD
Dudleyz
Sheamus (Maybe, always booked favorably so I'm not sure exactly where he might rank)

Can't comment on AJ yet cuz jury's still out on him, or older fellows like Backlund and Bruno

 

[Straw Hat Luffy]

How I think I'd rank the stars of this industry (likely a couple discrepancies depending on who you ask):

A+ (Mt Rushmore god level):
Hogan
Austin
Rock
Cena
Flair
Savage
Andre

A- (Icons):
Taker
HHH
Warrior (Almost A+ but I'm not sure how much he transcends generations)
Orton
Vince McMahon
Sting
Goldberg
Dusty
Mysterio
Brock
Roman
Angle
Kane
Batista (But my opinion on his popularity could be warped cuz he was one of my generation's top stars)
HBK
Bret
Razor
DiBiase
Big Show (Although I teeter on him being A- or B+)

B+ (Bonafide top guys/draws):
Foley (I also teeter on him being A- or B+ but his reign on top was leprechauns)
Jericho
Bryan
Punk
Eddie (Would be A- if he didn't pass right at the start of his prime)
Piper
L.O.D.
Edge
Jeff Hardy
Ambrose
Rollins
Diesel
Slaughter
Luger
Perfect
Sheik
Jake

B- (Top guys/draws but not always as known or always in the main event):
Rude
DDP
Yoko
Steamboat
JYD
Vader
Booker
Benoit
Steiner
Sid
Snuka
Chyna
Hacksaw
Owens
RVD
Dudleyz
Sheamus (Maybe, always booked favorably so I'm not sure exactly where he might rank)

Can't comment on AJ yet cuz jury's still out on him, or older fellows like Backlund and Bruno

This is how I see it in levels

Top tier level where you can't argue that they are huge
Hogan rock Austin cena flair

Now the next tier isn't as huge but they still have recognizable fame and popularity

Hhh, orton, Jericho, lesnar, punk

Then you have you're guys who are only famous in the wrestling world
Aj styles, omega, and Daniel Bryan

And then the rest people just know you if they are wrestling fans.

 

[John Reena]

Vince don't care about ya older guys who complain about Reigns push.

Vince is appealing to those 7 yr old kids who see Roman Reigns with his armor and "Super Man Punch" beating the "bad guys" then gets his mom n dad to spend $$$$ on merch, the network, and live events.

THIS IS A BUSINESS $$$$$


I thought y'all learned this after Cena's push

 

[BodeineBrazy]

Undertaker is only considered a legendary iconic superstar now based on his overall legacy and body of work, but at the time of his run he wasn't considered a major star on the level of Hogan/Rock/Austin. He was on top when WWF went through its leanest years ever.

When I read this thread I'm thinking who can be the new superstar to carry WWE the next 10 years. Basically, the next Hogan/Rock/Austin, Undertaker was never that level

Nah, during the AE, or just in the history of wrestling period Undertaker is a crossover star.

You dudes are conditioned by Vince.

Hogan didn't carry the WWF, people knew Sgt. Slaughter, Roddy Piper, Ultimate Warrior and Macho man all those guys were on Regis and Arsenio, Hogan was the biggest, but all those guys were household names.

During the AE, Austin and Rock didn't carry shyt, watch any commercial from that time and you will see how many wrestlers had crossover fame. fukking Mick Foley had the number 1 book in the country, was featured in commercials etc. My teachers in school watched. You could reference Val Venis in normal conversations and people would get it. Once again those two were the biggest, but this whole idea of "carrying" is why this shyt will never succeed again.

Taker is still being brought out at Cavs games, and is an internationally recognized star. That's not debatable, he's still famous NOW, and his debut was close to 30 years ago.

This shyt has always been a team effort.

 

[CBSkyline]

This thread is proof that a lot of you guys have bought into WWE's framing of wrestlers.

 

[dh86]

Reigns has a reputation now for being one of the most reliable, consistent, and top workers in the company who always puts on great matches. When Reigns was given that title run in late 2015, he received massive pops and put on a couple good matches with Sheamus. When he was given the Mania feud with Brock, he put on one of the best Mania main events in recent history. When he was in The Shield, he was a standout member and pegged to be a star before they broke up. Those Rusev and Owens feuds were bad because of the booking and writing, why are you shifting that blame on him?



Yeah Reigns gets booed in most towns he's in, but to say he's universally hated and that he generates zero positive reactions is absurd. Just pay attention to his entrances and his matches during Raw, there's a sizable volume of people cheering for him and what he does. And if you want really specific instances,




I didn't say casual fans ARE the foundation, I said women and children are THE foundations of your casual audience.

And yeah, hardcore fans are tougher to chase away, that's why if you're running a business, you appease the hardcore fans to a degree but you do more to appease your casual audience. That makes sense, no?



What you're describing is the Cena-sphere where someone is the be all end all. I've never seen Reigns on that level at all, what I'm saying is he's in a tier below that, with the Triple H's, Orton's, Bret's, etc. Guys who are also moving pieces but valuable pieces nevertheless. If you think I'm saying Reigns is a Cena-level star then you missed the part when I've said numerous times Reigns is in that A- level below the A+'s.



I know what you mean, its just that I see Reigns as a Triple H ceiling, not the Cena/Rock ceiling Vince and co see him as. What you're arguing against for the most part relates to if I was putting Reigns in that Cena-sphere, which I'm not

Is it your assertion that 100% of the television crowd is populated by the "smark, hardcore" element, nationwide?

 

[Spyro]

This is partly by design. They do not want another Dwayne, Austin, Hogan, or even Cena who can get big and leave them, either for Hollywood or if some competition pops up. You can best belee that they are never having another top guy who owns his own name. If "Joe Anoai" wants to go somewhere he will have to leave "Roman Reigns", the bank book, the credit cards and all the jewels

WWE doesn't want to bang a dime. Too much headache and you always gotta worry she gon leave you for a basketball player. They are happy cooking with 6's and 7's with less options until they get tired of them. We all saw how when CM Punk was hot and getting mainstream attention with "the pipe bomb", they threw water on it real quicc

Yeah sure they don't breh

 

[Spyro]

Did someone in this thread seriously say that Reigns is ahead of JeriGOAT?

 

[dh86]

Vince don't care about ya older guys who complain about Reigns push.

Vince is appealing to those 7 yr old kids who see Roman Reigns with his armor and "Super Man Punch" beating the "bad guys" then gets his mom n dad to spend $$$$ on merch, the network, and live events.

THIS IS A BUSINESS $$$$$


I thought y'all learned this after Cena's push

It is a business, and Roman Reigns push failed.

 

[dh86]

How I think I'd rank the stars of this industry (likely a couple discrepancies depending on who you ask):

A+ (Mt Rushmore god level):
Hogan
Austin
Rock
Cena
Flair
Savage
Andre

A- (Icons):
Taker
HHH
Warrior (Almost A+ but I'm not sure how much he transcends generations)
Orton
Vince McMahon
Sting
Goldberg
Dusty
Mysterio
Brock
Roman (Probably not yet but he's on the trajectory)
Angle
Kane
Batista (But my opinion on his popularity could be warped cuz he was one of my generation's top stars)
HBK
Bret
Razor
DiBiase
Piper
Big Show (Although I teeter on him being A- or B+)

B+ (Bonafide top guys/draws):
Foley (I also teeter on him being A- or B+ but his reign on top was leprechauns)
Jericho
Bryan
Punk
Eddie (Would be A- if he didn't pass right at the start of his prime)
L.O.D.
Perfect
Sheik
Jake
Luger
Edge
Ambrose
Rollins
Diesel
Slaughter

B- (Top guys/draws but not always as known or always in the main event):
Rude
DDP
Yoko
Steamboat
JYD
Vader
Booker
Benoit
Steiner
Sid
Snuka
Chyna
Hacksaw
Jeff Hardy
Owens
RVD
Dudleyz
Sheamus (Maybe, always booked favorably so I'm not sure exactly where he might rank)

Can't comment on AJ yet cuz jury's still out on him, or older fellows like Backlund and Bruno

Why no Super Bowl ad for Roman Reigns? If hes an A- icon, why no commercials, movie roles? TV appearances? Edge was in Highlander, Roman?