Isiah Thomas finished top 5 in MVP voting one time in his whole career

[murksiderock]

Haven't even read the entire thread yet but this matters. He played for 13 years. One Top 5 MVP vote his entire career directly contradicts how supposedly historically great he is...

He's one of the greatest players ever if you name 30-35 guys. He's not a Top 25 guy, stop mentioning this nikka with heavyweights!

 

[murksiderock]

It shows who was viewed as what in their time.

A “superstar” leading a 63 win championship team finished 17th in MVP in what is supposed to be his prime.

That don’t make no sense, unless this was a 00’s pistons collab effort type situation(which is what it was)

He was the Pistons Chauncey Billups.....before the Pistons Chauncey Billups.

 

[NYC Rebel]

Haven't even read the entire thread yet but this matters. He played for 13 years. One Top 5 MVP vote his entire career directly contradicts how supposedly historically great he is...

He's one of the greatest players ever if you name 30-35 guys. He's not a Top 25 guy, stop mentioning this nikka with heavyweights!

Ignore who were the voters and why they wouldn’t vote for him, brehs

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

Zeke's career and ability are definitely romanticized on this board because of memorable moments he had during the playoffs (along with winning two championships). If his career would've existed in today's era, cats wouldn't be holding him in the same historical regard; they'd actually be attributing his success to the team he was on.

 

[murksiderock]

If you follow any of Basketball Media's lists of the past 4 years or so, basically from NBA75 year to now, the greatest points are generally ranked as:

1 Magic
2 O
3 Steph
4 West
5 Stockton
6 CP3
7 Zeke

the order can obviously change by organization wroting the column, but if you aggregate it, this is generally how it shakes out...

Online nikkas calling Zeke a Top 2 or 3 point ever is either rooted in hyperbole or is an outdated point of view. Because when people actually sit down and write lists, Zeke isn't in their Top 3 and often not Top 5...

He's somewhere between the 30th and 35th greatest player ever, and somewhere between the 6th to 8th greatest point ever. That's high praise for a guy who retired 31 years ago, at which time he probably was a GOAT4 point. 31 years have passed since then, though...

He gets hella overrated on this board but rated properly when Basketball Media actually sits down to rank players...

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

Ignore who were the voters and why they wouldn’t vote for him, brehs

You're overplaying the element of this perceived voter bias, when in the grand scheme of things, it had little-to-no effect.

In the five seasons the Pistons won 50+ games, Zeke had PPG averages of 20, 19, 18, 18 and 16.

And over the course of those five years he was the leading scorer in only one season (Dantley or Dumars were the leading scorers in the other four seasons), so one of the main reasons for why he wasn't getting MVP votes is because he wasn't seen as valuable to his team as other players were to their respective teams. Compounded by the fact that as the Pistons grew into being recognized as more of a defensive squad, he didn't really garner that sort of attention.

It was more the fact he didn't deserve MVP votes, rather than any great injustice.

 

[murksiderock]

Ignore who were the voters and why they wouldn’t vote for him, brehs

Zeke was basically some 80s version of Tony Parker, who himself is criminally underrated to Zeke being overrated. Both guys deserve their due but people give Zeke a stature that he shouldn't have...

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

That don't mean a goddamn thing

Everyone knows he's PG GOAT number 2

Dude played in the era of Dr J, Bird, Magic, Kareem (MJ was still coming into his own with a mediocre team) etc and his stats alone weren't gonna get him it.

And he still won two titles and a finals MVP

It certainly does mean something when you're trying to prop him up as the #2 PG of all-time, especially for how much y'all value accolades like MVP. The fact that you'd even type that out when he doesn't remotely have a case for being better than Steph is essentially what this thread is trying to illustrate - that he's overrated.

In 2025, there ain't no reason why anyone should be ranking him that high at his position.

 

[Street Knowledge]

He was the Pistons Chauncey Billups.....before the Pistons Chauncey Billups.

If chauncey was saying how “he” beat Kobe Shaq Wade, lebron, like he’s on their level we would clown his ass

 

[Street Knowledge]

You're overplaying the element of this perceived voter bias, when in the grand scheme of things, it had little-to-no effect.

In the five seasons the Pistons won 50+ games, Zeke had PPG averages of 20, 19, 18, 18 and 16.

And over the course of those five years he was the leading scorer in only one season (Dantley or Dumars were the leading scorers in the other four seasons), so one of the main reasons for why he wasn't getting MVP votes is because he wasn't seen as valuable to his team as other players were to their respective teams. Compounded by the fact that as the Pistons grew into being recognized as more of a defensive squad, he didn't really garner that sort of attention.

It was more the fact he didn't deserve MVP votes, rather than any great injustice.

You notice they never name the seasons he was robbed or it was some clear injustice that he wasn’t top 5 in voting.

 

[Street Knowledge]

Haven't even read the entire thread yet but this matters. He played for 13 years. One Top 5 MVP vote his entire career directly contradicts how supposedly historically great he is...

He's one of the greatest players ever if you name 30-35 guys. He's not a Top 25 guy, stop mentioning this nikka with heavyweights!

Maybe when he retired he could’ve been seen as a top 25 guy but certainly not now.

Hes more like a 40-50 guy.

 

[murksiderock]

This is when you know we're only living in the stats era that people actually care about how many MVP top 5 votings you got or the numbers you put up in scoring.

I guess that makes James Harden and Russell Westbrook better than Isiah huh

Nobody is in here making a statistical case as to why Zeke isn't a GOAT5 point...

Harden was definitely a better basketball player than fukking Isiah Thomas

I just wanted to chime in with this, Isiah never made an ALL NBA team after the Bird controversy in the 87 ECF. Was it a coincidence? who knows.

I get that, and I get that in his day, he was viewed as the next best at the position after Magic. But was he ever great enough to warrant an MVP or annual MVP votes?

NBA: Most Top 5 MVP finishes...

Yeah anybody shytting on this stat is an idiot is it a end all be all, no but a good representation of who did what and for how long

www.thecoli.com

There are 26 players in NBA history who finished Top 5 in MVP voting at least 5 times. It's an inexact science but it is an indicator for about how long someone was a Top 5 player in their career...

Zeke's career overlapped with both Malone's, Kareem, Magic, Bird, Gervin, Hakeem, Stockton, Barkley, etc. Was he ever consistently viewed as a Top 5 player?

Because you can look at that list and essentially tell the story of the NBA and its greatest players by the names on that list. The one big omission is Steph, and it's belated for anyone trying to argue in 2025 that Zeke was better than Steph. Steph is the only name not on that 26-player list who belongs...

Why aren't you addressing Paul's choke job in the Finals vs the Bucks?

Year 16 Chris Paul? Year 16 is a referendum on his career? An age and stage longer and older than Isiah's entire career?

 

[Po pimp]

Haven't even read the entire thread yet but this matters. He played for 13 years. One Top 5 MVP vote his entire career directly contradicts how supposedly historically great he is...

He's one of the greatest players ever if you name 30-35 guys. He's not a Top 25 guy, stop mentioning this nikka with heavyweights!

It means nothing. The year he finished 17th in voting, he was tied with Joe Dumars, despite the Pistons having 63 wins that year. He averaged 18 and 8 assists that season and Dumars averaged 17 and 6. Explain Mark Eaton finishing higher on the MVP voting list when he averaged 6, 10 and 4 blocks? The Jazz were 51-31 that year.

 

[Po pimp]

He was the Pistons Chauncey Billups.....before the Pistons Chauncey Billups.

Zeke was basically some 80s version of Tony Parker

The Coli

 

[Street Knowledge]

It means nothing. The year he finished 17th in voting, he was tied with Joe Dumars, despite the Pistons having 63 wins that year. He averaged 18 and 8 assists that season and Dumars averaged 17 and 6. Explain Mark Eaton finishing higher on the MVP voting list when he averaged 6, 10 and 4 blocks? The Jazz were 51-31 that year.

Eaton anchored the best defense in basketball while Isiah was maybe the best player on the 7th best offense in basketball.

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1988-89 Detroit Pistons Roster and Stats | Basketball-Reference.com

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