murksiderock
Superstar
It does mean something. A guy plays 13 years and only is Top 5 once---->it doesn't mean he isn't a really good player, but he clearly isn't deserving of top tier players ever...
Isiah Thomas finished top 5 in MVP voting one time in his whole career
- Thread starter Street Knowledge
- Start date
So a “defensive anchor” role player on a team that won 51 games (getting swept in the first round) is more important than a 7x All Star who led his team to 63 wins, leading them in PPG and APG and ultimately won the championship?Eaton anchored the best defense in basketball while Isiah was maybe the best player on the 7th best offense in basketball.
1988-89 Utah Jazz Roster and Stats | Basketball-Reference.com
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Yeah the best defensive player in the league on the best defense in basketball is more valuable than a guy that we don’t even know for certain is the best offensive player on the 7th best offensive in basketball.
The previous all star selections and postseason title that year have nothing to do with the regular season mvp
The fact that we are discussing him with mark Eaton says it’s all
He was All NBA 5x (1st team 3x) and finished top 5 in MVP voting just one of those seasons. I’m assuming it’s because his team wasn’t that good. Yet when his team becomes a contender, he doesn’t get any top ten consideration for MVP? Make it make sense.
I brought up Mark Eaton to show how ridiculous and biased these voters were.Yeah the best defensive player in the league on the best defense in basketball is more valuable than a guy that we don’t even know for certain is the best offensive player on the 7th best offensive in basketball.
The previous all star selections and postseason title that year have nothing to do with the regular season mvp
The fact that we are discussing him with mark Eaton says it’s all
Unless I am misremembering something Detroit would have 3peated if Thomas didn't twist his ankle in one of those years that Detroit was in the Finals. He also won a national title when he was at Indiana. He was a fantastic player and he played for his team rather than for individual stats.
Right. same thing could be said for Rip hamilton, chauncey billups....
Because the gap between him and his backcourt mate was minimal and they were winning because of defense
Yeah the best defensive player on the best defense is more valuable than maybe the best offensive player on the 7th best offense
Erratic415
Superstar
Magic was the 2nd best player in the NBA when they played in the 91’ Finals.
Unfortunately for him, he had to play the guy who was #1, and the Bulls were just better and healthier than the Lakers.
If not for HIV, Magic probably would have had a couple more seasons as an elite player. But I don’t think the Lakers would have seriously contended without some major additions to the team. They were considered to have overachieved in the 91’ playoffs, and Worthy declined fast after this due to his bad knees.
West was primarily known as a shooting guard.
Everyone knows Isiah was the leader of that team. You say they won because of defense, so why didn’t they have a single player who made the All Defense team? They were third in defensive rating.
The Jazz had the best defense the year prior as well and Eaton didn’t receive any MVP votes.
Y’all are wild. There was a reason for the Dream Team outrage—Zeke was HIM.
Outside of Magic, Bird, and Jordan? Isiah was that guy. He brought a fear factor. Teams dreaded playing the Pistons because of the ruthless, win or die culture he built. He was cold-blooded, no-nonsense, and set the tone for Detroit’s dominance.
Did he sacrifice his scoring for the team? Absolutely. The Pistons were one of the most unselfish teams ever. That’s part of why Mark Aguirre wasn’t as much of a factor when he got traded.
Stats? Come on brehs. Isiah played in an era where MVP voting was dominated by big men outside of Magic, Bird, and Jordan. We’re talking Kareem, Moses, Barkley, and others—the game was played inside-out. Style matters.
And let’s not forget—Stockton, a pretty much consensus top-30-40 all-time player even without a ring, NEVER finished top 5 in MVP voting.
Outside of Magic, Bird, and Jordan? Isiah was that guy. He brought a fear factor. Teams dreaded playing the Pistons because of the ruthless, win or die culture he built. He was cold-blooded, no-nonsense, and set the tone for Detroit’s dominance.
Did he sacrifice his scoring for the team? Absolutely. The Pistons were one of the most unselfish teams ever. That’s part of why Mark Aguirre wasn’t as much of a factor when he got traded.
Stats? Come on brehs. Isiah played in an era where MVP voting was dominated by big men outside of Magic, Bird, and Jordan. We’re talking Kareem, Moses, Barkley, and others—the game was played inside-out. Style matters.
And let’s not forget—Stockton, a pretty much consensus top-30-40 all-time player even without a ring, NEVER finished top 5 in MVP voting.
murksiderock
Superstar
The designation "shooting guard" didn't exist during West's career. In his day the terms were lead guard, which evolved to "point" guard; and off guard, which evolved to "shooting" guard...
In real time of his career West was known as a lead guard, primarily. In the 51 years sibce his retirement people have referred to him as a "shooting guard" because of his unique shooting and scoring skill that was rare for his era, aside from he and Robertson. Basketball heads started calling him a shooting guard but he was viewed as a point in his career...
Stockton got 0 Top 5 finishes to Zeke's 1, not much of a gap there. And these basketball lists that get published show that people don't really think there's a large gap between them, many have Stockton over Zeke...
This is a black basketball forum so Zeke gets held in higher regard here than other mediums...
And you cant say "well big men got all the MVP votes" when its easily disproven how many non-bigs were getting Top 5 finishes during Zeke's career. Hell, you named 3 of em...
Zeke was a great player. He just isn't a Top 3 point. Even if you take West out he's not better than Steph, Magic, or O. One can easily make the debate Stockton or Paul are better than Zeke. Amd if you consider Harden a point it gets even scarier for Zeke...
