JJ Redikk "Stephen Curry plays against more physicality defense than Birds era". Dominique Wilkins responds

klientel

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That's what I'm saying. :childplease:


I typed "Bird highlights 1986 Finals" and this is the first single-game video that came up. It's a great clip because he shows a wide variety of plays, makes and misses both. I have to say the physicality is.....not impressive.







And for the posters saying, "Maybe it wasn't physical on the perimeter but it was brutal inside"....Bird seems to be getting away with some pretty close post-ups without any physicality. And when players go inside, there's a lot of hands swiping at the ball but there are also a lot more open layups than you would want.

The whole tough era of basketball shyt is a myth. They like to think current players would end up paralyzed if they played back then.

But Ja would be yamming on them nikkas just as easily as he does today.
 

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The whole tough era of basketball shyt is a myth. They like to think current players would end up paralyzed if they played back then.

But Ja would be yamming on them nikkas just as easily as he does today.


The myth of defense in the 1980s is based entirely on what the Pistons started doing at the end of the decade. Other than the Pistons, the average basketball play was significantly less physical, not more so.

In the 1990s there at least were a few more teams who tried to match the Pistons' physicality, but still, even 1990s Finals defense doesn't hold a candle to 2010s playoff defense.
 

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Dominique is the Hall Of Famer who was actually PLAYING against Bird, MJ, Isaiah, Barkley, and Malone back then.

I’ll take his word over some white man

Nique is talking about the fact that hand checking was still legal back then and how it made perimeter play more difficult vs now it's an automatic foul if the player has the ball and the defender puts their hands on them.

He's not talking mainly about Pistons type basketball :mjlol:



Why are we taking "his word"? Why not watch the damn clips?


This is Finals defense in 1986, should be the peak of what Bird faced outside of the Pistons:



1:30 Open 3pt on a broken play

1:45 Open 3pt off a screen, against a shooter that defender should have gone over the screen not under it.

1:55 Open layup off the fast break.

3:00 Backs down defender in the post for a turnaround 15 footer, weak challenge to the shot.

4:05 Backs down defender for a 10 foot turnaround, better challenge

4:40 12-foot jumper with defender in front of him, defender bites on pass fake and shot is not challenged

5:03 15-foot turnaround, decent challenge to the shot

5:15 Wide open three, defender was just lost on the play

5:35 Drives inside, foul called on moderate contact

5:45 Bird is left open from 15 feet but seems indecisive and fakes twice before driving, ball slips out of his hand, regains it, left open from 18 feet and shoots

7:57 Soft defense on a three-pointer

8:28 Bird comes off a pick and shoots from 18 feet, defenders switch but don't challenge the shot

8:35 Defender gets lost and Bird has an open three, chooses to drive rather than shoot but loses his dribble, gets the ball again and shoots while defender seems to be trying for a too-late steal instead of challenging the shot

8:45 Tries to break down defender but fails, then tries to draw a foul by jump shooting into the stationary defender's chest (no call)

9:30 Bad switch leaves Bird open under the hoop, defender closes and gets a bit physical but it's still an easy layup

10:00 Entire team clears out for a 20-second iso backdown, Bird fakes the jumper then spins for a nifty scoop shot

10:20 Quick turnaround from 18 feet against good defense

10:53 Awful defensive breakdown allows Bird to catch the ball at the hoop for a wide-open layup


Overall Bird had a great game, 12-19 for 31 points including 3-5 from 3pt range and had some nice assists. In fact it probably goes down as one of his top-3 Finals games of his career. Celtics won in a blowout. But where is this physical perimeter defense? It doesn't look any more physical than a regular-season game today, and they're putting forth far less effort to deny Bird space to get his shot off than they do for Curry, even when he's inside the 3pt line.
 
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Copy Ninja

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Why are we taking "his word"? Why not watch the damn clips?


This is Finals defense in 1986, should be the peak of what Bird faced outside of the Pistons:



1:30 Open 3pt on a broken play

1:45 Open 3pt off a screen, against a shooter that defender should have gone over the screen not under it.

1:55 Open layup off the fast break.

3:00 Backs down defender in the post for a turnaround 15 footer, weak challenge to the shot.

4:05 Backs down defender for a 10 foot turnaround, better challenge

4:40 12-foot jumper with defender in front of him, defender bites on pass fake and shot is not challenged

5:03 15-foot turnaround, decent challenge to the shot

5:15 Wide open three, defender was just lost on the play

5:35 Drives inside, foul called on moderate contact

5:45 Bird is left open from 15 feet but seems indecisive and fakes twice before driving, loses the ball, regains it, is left with open from 18 feet and shoots

7:57 Soft defense on a three-pointer

8:28 Bird comes off a pick and shoots from 18 feet, defenders switch but don't challenge the shot

8:35 Defender gets lost and Bird has an open three, chooses to drive rather than shoot but loses his dribble, gets the ball again and shoots while defender seems to be trying for a too-late steal instead of challenging the shot

8:45 Tries to break down defender but fails, then tries to draw a foul by jump shooting into the stationary defender's chest (no call)

9:30 Bad switch leaves Bird open under the hoop, defender closes and gets a bit physical but it's still an easy layup

10:00 Entire team clears out for a 20-second iso backdown, Bird fakes the jumper then spins for a nifty scoop shot

10:20 Quick turnaround from 18 feet against good defense

10:53 Awful defensive breakdown allows Bird to catch the ball at the hoop for a wide-open layup


Overall Bird had a great game, 12-19 for 31 points including 3-5 from 3pt range and had some nice assists. Celtics won in a blowout. It was his highest-scoring game of that Finals and one of just two where he made half his shots. But where is this physical perimeter defense? It doesn't look any more physical than a regular-season game today, and they're putting forth far less effort to deny Bird space to get his shot off than they do for Curry, even when he's inside the 3pt line.


:what:

There's a literal rule change implemented to get rid of hand checking Nique is referring to which made the overall game more physical back then and you're bringing up a singular anectodal game that favors your argument?:gucci:
 

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It’s reality. Defenses back then didn’t guard the 3-pt line the way they do now. The degree of difficulty is different as a result. It is what it is.
Ok and the reality is Bird was a big/wing hybrid so he played closer to the rim in an era rim protection was extremely important and physical
 

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:what:

There's a literal rule change implemented to get rid of hand checking Nique is referring to which made the overall game more physical back then

Hand-checking was banned in 1979, before Bird even played. Then made orders to enforce it more in 1995, and then again in 2005. There was not any sort of profuse hand-checking in the 1980s and the game wasn't more physical.

If you believe differently, then post an actual game clip of what you believe is a physical defense outside of the late-80s Pistons.




and you're bringing up a singular anectodal game that favors your argument?:gucci:


You think I've memorized the defensive effort in every Larry Bird Finals game and was able to pick the exact one that would support my argument? :dead:

Breh, I googled his peak Finals and that was the first game that came up. Broke down every single shot he took from beginning to end. Don't just dismiss evidence because it doesn't fit your agenda. Do you have a different example?

Go ahead and post ANY non-Pistons game that Larry Bird played in so you can show us how terrifying hand-checking was.
 
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