Joe Biden wasn't good for the down-ballot

MoneyTron

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Centrist always dismiss progressives as unpopular and losers who can;'t win a presidential election but the fact remains the last time a true progressive was given the chance as the dem nominee
to run for president in FDR, he was so dominant that the US literally created presidential term limit just to stop his insanely dominant run.

Until someone like Bernie or Warren or AOC actually makes it out of the primary and actually run against republican for president, the whole "progressive can't win" is nothing but conjecture not grounded in facts.

It's a catch 22, progressives can't make it out of the primary because the media and dem establishment have convinced majority of the primary voters that only a centrist/corporate dem can win and you can't know that for sure until you actually put it to the test, so until a progressive lose a presidential election to GOP candidate in the general, it's moot.
FDR had almost unlimited power to carry out his agenda though and the circumstances that propelled his legacy to the top really hinged on WWII. His 2nd term was a disaster.

Had we not won, his presidency would be looked at far differently and those policies probably would've been deemed irrelevant and/or terribly misguided.
 

Jalether

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FDR had almost unlimited power to carry out his agenda though and the circumstances that propelled his legacy to the top really hinged on WWII.

Had we not won, his presidency would be looked at far differently and those policies probably would've been deemed irrelevant.

I don't disagree with that but He's the last real example we can point to as a reference for progressive running for the president in the general and he did really well.

The same people who doubt a progressive can win the presidency won't
give progressives a chance to prove it. It's like employers requiring new graduates to have multiple years job experience. "How I'm I suppose to prove you wrong in the general if you won't give me a chance to do so"
 

MoneyTron

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I don't disagree with that but He's the last real example we can point to as a reference for progressive running for the president in the general and he did really well.

The same people who doubt a progressive can win the presidency won't
give progressives a chance to prove it. It's like employers requiring new graduates to have multiple years job experience. "How I'm I suppose to prove you wrong in the general if you won't give me a chance to do so"
I'd argue that trying to stay in the good graces of a slight majority of the electorate will always pull the president back to the middle regardless of where they start from. That's just modern government. If you don't, the people will give you :camby:.

Obama had made to make that calculation. Trump refused.
 

BigMoneyGrip

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Straight from Flatbush
Trump was on the ballot.. It’s like when Mayweather fight all the Mexicans come out and by PPV to see floyd lose thus PPV having high viewership for that fight and Floyd pocketing all their money but when he ain’t fighting PPV don’t get as much views :mjgrin:

so basically come 2022 GOP voters ain’t coming out because Trump ain’t on the ballot.. Mark this post and come back to it in 2 years :mjgrin:
 
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God Almighty

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His 2nd term was a disaster.
And he got elected TWICE after that anyway.

He gave poor people help.

It's really that simple.

And he joined forces with communists to defeat fascism.

If he ran in 2020, Chris Matthews would be crying in the rain while accusing FDR of being literally Hitler, though.

Centrism. YUCK. :scusthov:
 

MoneyTron

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And he got elected TWICE after that anyway.

He gave poor people help.

It's really that simple.

And he joined forces with communists to defeat fascism.

If he ran in 2020, Chris Matthews would be crying in the rain while accusing FDR of being literally Hitler, though.

Centrism. YUCK. :scusthov:
It isn't that simple. The American public was not going to elect a new president during the largest conflict in human history.

Not ignoring the advancements he made in the average American's social life but had WWII not happened, his legacy would look much differently. :yeshrug:

Truman also wanted to help poor people and unlike almost every other modern president wasn't wealthy himself but I never hear anyone mention him. :ld:
 

Json

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Centrist always dismiss progressives as unpopular and losers who can;'t win a presidential election but the fact remains the last time a true progressive was given the chance as the dem nominee
to run for president in FDR, he was so dominant that the US literally created presidential term limit just to stop his insanely dominant run.

Until someone like Bernie or Warren or AOC actually makes it out of the primary and actually run against republican for president, the whole "progressive can't win" is nothing but conjecture not grounded in facts.

It's a catch 22, progressives can't make it out of the primary because the media and dem establishment have convinced majority of the primary voters that only a centrist/corporate dem can win and you can't know that for sure until you actually put it to the test, so until a progressive lose a presidential election to GOP candidate in the general, it's moot.

You’re forgetting the main attribute FDR had that modern progressives haven’t obtained.

A governorship

People for whatever reason trust governors as president more than any other. Until a progressive can win a state, or a moderate Dem becomes progressive after being governor then the insurgency campaign in the Dem party will be hard.
 

Ozymandeas

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FDR had almost unlimited power to carry out his agenda though and the circumstances that propelled his legacy to the top really hinged on WWII. His 2nd term was a disaster.

Had we not won, his presidency would be looked at far differently and those policies probably would've been deemed irrelevant and/or terribly misguided.

And comparing FDR to Bernie is :dead:
 

Ozymandeas

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Centrist always dismiss progressives as unpopular and losers who can;'t win a presidential election but the fact remains the last time a true progressive was given the chance as the dem nominee
to run for president in FDR, he was so dominant that the US literally created presidential term limit just to stop his insanely dominant run.

Until someone like Bernie or Warren or AOC actually makes it out of the primary and actually run against republican for president, the whole "progressive can't win" is nothing but conjecture not grounded in facts.

It's a catch 22, progressives can't make it out of the primary because the media and dem establishment have convinced majority of the primary voters that only a centrist/corporate dem can win and you can't know that for sure until you actually put it to the test, so until a progressive lose a presidential election to GOP candidate in the general, it's moot.
So its the media influencing people to not vote for Progressives now? Got it. So Bob Iger, the Redstone family, the Roberts family, John Stankey and the DNC are determining our elections? :aicmon: Its not voters themselves deciding they don't want these candidates? Obama was not wanted by the "powers that be". They wanted Hilary. Yet he convinced voters to choose him in the primaries. Why can't today's progressive candidates do the same? Obama was a black man named Hussein running against a white woman who was married to a President and he won! In the midst of the greatest Recession since the 1930s. This black man convinced millions of racist White Americans to vote him into the White House in a period where the wrong choice could've sent us into financial purgatory. And they still choose his black ass. If he can do that...these progressive candidates today have no excuse...their failures are a reflection on how weak they are. The system is no more unfair than it was twelves years ago. They are weak. End of story. Bernie is not a President. No one sees a President when they look at him. No one can imagine him being in the same room as Vladimir Putin, Xi Jinping or Erdogan. He's not what you think of, when you think of an American leader. He's a self-righteous quack that has good ideas but, cant work well with others or command respect and that's why he was thoroughly rejected twice. Elizabeth Warren was the best chance the Progressives had. She was smart, she was liberal, she was Presidential and she straddled the line between being tough and tenacious but, still congenial. I would have voted for her happily but, the Progressives massacred her for reasons I do not know or understand to this day. But at the end of the day, that's an excuse because if Warren was really the one, she would have overcame it and been elected. AOC will never touch the White House. When a real bonafide candidate comes about that's a Progressive, they won't have to be "let in" by the DNC/media/political elite. The people will get behind them and they will vote. Everything else is bullsh*t :aicmon:
 

Pressure

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So its the media influencing people to not vote for Progressives now? Got it. So Bob Iger, the Redstone family, the Roberts family, John Stankey and the DNC are determining our elections? :aicmon: Its not voters themselves deciding they don't want these candidates?
Folks want it both ways.

AOCs origin story is basically a David vs Goliath story about how a local bartender upended the parties chosen one who was being groomed for a POTUS run.

Legend has it that she won despite the establishment doing everything in their power, including throwing gobs of money at her rival. The takeaway, no amount of money and establishment backing can stop the progressive populist movement.

Fast forward to 2020...:mjlol:
 

Piff Perkins

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Democrats have spent 5 years arguing that the Republican Party is decent/good, but their presidential nominee is an extremist whose removal would return the party to normal. Instead of arguing Trump is the culmination of a decade of republican extremism they decided to argue he’s unique. Obama did it, Hillary did it, Biden did it. And it clearly hurt the party in this election.

On an unrelated note it’s clear many republicans voted against Trump but supported republican candidates down ballot. Especially in places like Arizona. Democrats had no control over what Never Trumpers did.
 
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