Joe Biden’s brilliant critique of Medicare for all has made me rethink my position

[Pressure]

Both sides are for big government, and have completely embraced deficit spending. This fiscal responsibility position needs to be done away with by both sides. No one on the hill has any real interest in balancing sh*t.

Deficit spending doesn't change the reality that every budget ever made by the US government has included adding programs while removing others and leaving others off entirely because it doesn't appear to be worth the cost.

Any honest discourse accepts this.

Also that the budget isn't high because of a ton of small programs, but big ticket items billed as can't avoid and imperative and often a lie.

Tax cuts
Iraq war.

 

[Oville]

i should have clarified, because about 5 people turned this into the easy talking point "hur dur you hate mexicans" and that wasn't the point

when someone proposes medicare for all as a serious proposal, republicans are going to counter by telling the country that the democrats want to give free taxpayer healthcare to people who are here illegally. and the democrats are going to have to decide whether to say no, we aren't fukking giving free healthcare to people who come here illegally, that would be ridiculous. or yes, we want to make america the world's free hospital. and the waffling on that question is going to be of epic proportions

are illegals going to make or break the logistics of medicare for all? of course not. but if the dems get medicare for all, then i want the republicans to be the ones controlling the southern border (compromise ). i have no interest in some bullshyt policy where anyone who gets two feet on our soil gets a free ambulance ride to a free hospital bed, and rachel maddow hosts a segment where she cries on tv about everyone who gets over the border with appendicitis. and guess what? the vast majority of the country will feel the same way

Thing is, while the right wing in this country have shifted further right on social issues, they've actually veered left in some circumstances on economic issues. Health care is one of those issues. People like Bernie and Andrew Yang have effectively made the case that single payer would also be business friendly for every business save for insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies, and hospitals cuz employers wont have to be responsible for picking up the cost. That's logic thats had never previously been part of the mainstream arguments aboutvtbe system that can appeal to fiscal conservatives.

 

[the cac mamba]

Thing is, while the right wing in this country have shifted further right on social issues, they've actually veered left in some circumstances on economic issues. Health care is one of those issues. People like Bernie and Andrew Yang have effectively made the case that single payer would also be business friendly for every business save for insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies, and hospitals cuz employers wont have to be responsible for picking up the cost. That's logic thats had never previously been part of the mainstream arguments aboutvtbe system that can appeal to fiscal conservatives.

its a great argument

my insurance is about 400 a month, and my company pays 310 of that

 

[Dusty Bake Activate]

Thing is, while the right wing in this country have shifted further right on social issues, they've actually veered left in some circumstances on economic issues. Health care is one of those issues. People like Bernie and Andrew Yang have effectively made the case that single payer would also be business friendly for every business save for insurance companies, pharmaceutical companies, and hospitals cuz employers wont have to be responsible for picking up the cost. That's logic thats had never previously been part of the mainstream arguments aboutvtbe system that can appeal to fiscal conservatives.

Not really. Zero elected Republicans support single payer.

 

[Oville]

Not really. Zero elected Republicans support single payer.

Not the politicians but it could be sold to the base. It'll take sometime but if you can convince the base that single payer is a better alternative Republicans might just outright adopt down the line. Of course you have to get a majority in the senate while maintaining the house to pass it through first. While it may be a longshot to pass, it may be worth planting seeds to make it more of a politically acceptable alternative in the mainstream

 

[chico25]

i should have clarified, because about 5 people turned this into the easy talking point "hur dur you hate mexicans" and that wasn't the point

when someone proposes medicare for all as a serious proposal, republicans are going to counter by telling the country that the democrats want to give free taxpayer healthcare to people who are here illegally. and the democrats are going to have to decide whether to say no, we aren't fukking giving free healthcare to people who come here illegally, that would be ridiculous. or yes, we want to make america the world's free hospital. and the waffling on that question is going to be of epic proportions

are illegals going to make or break the logistics of medicare for all? of course not. but if the dems get medicare for all, then i want the republicans to be the ones controlling the southern border (compromise ). i have no interest in some bullshyt policy where anyone who gets two feet on our soil gets a free ambulance ride to a free hospital bed, and rachel maddow hosts a segment where she cries on tv about everyone who gets over the border with appendicitis. and guess what? the vast majority of the country will feel the same way

Bernie Sanders has already been asked about that and stated that undocumented immigrants will be covered because they are currently being covered by going to emergency rooms and being treated. Adding them to Medicare for all would lower the costs that are being incurred by hospitals treating them, because they're legally required to, and writing it or when they can't pay.

Some people, such as yourself, won't like that answer, but it's been given. In my opinion it's a small price to pay for better, less expensive healthcare coverage.

because the people who are proposing it aren't willing to make hard cuts in spending i mean im sorry, but anyone proposing this has to be willing to go down the federal budget and cut at least 10 percent of it. if they arent willing to do that, then im not tryna hear it

Why do we need to cut the budget when we can increase taxes to cover it. There is already a Medicare tax that people pay, that can be increased in addition to raising the top marginal tax rate. Or you could implement Elizabeth Warren's 2% wealth tax and cover this with money to spare for her other plans.

If you insist on budget cuts then we can actually bring our troops back from the middle east and cut the military budget back to pre Iraq war levels.

 

[the cac mamba]

Why do we need to cut the budget

gonna stop taking you seriously right about here. good luck, comrade

 

[chico25]

gonna stop taking you seriously right about here. good luck, comrade

Did you say anything about the budget the last 3 or 4 times Republicans cut taxes for corporations and wealthy individuals? What about when Congress annually votes to increase military spending?

The fact is we as a country only talk about cutting/balancing the Federal budget when someone proposes an idea that could help average citizens or after the tax cuts that are always supposed to pay for themselves fail to do so. As far as you taking me seriously, I don't give a shyt. My statements are for other people reading so your bullshyt doesn't go unchallenged.

 

[the cac mamba]

Did you say anything about the budget the last 3 or 4 times Republicans cut taxes for corporations and wealthy individuals? What about when Congress annually votes to increase military spending?

-yes, i said it was a jerkoff for the rich. taxes are not the budget though
-yes, our military spending is disgusting

 

[chico25]

-yes, i said it was a jerkoff for the rich. taxes are not the budget though
-yes, our military spending is disgusting

If you really believe that then why is raising taxes and/or cutting the military budget as I proposed a reason not to take me seriously? That would more than pay for Medicare for all.

 

[Guvnor]

Not voting for him plus he a pervert.

 

[Dusty Bake Activate]

Not the politicians but it could be sold to the base. It'll take sometime but if you can convince the base that single payer is a better alternative Republicans might just outright adopt down the line. Of course you have to get a majority in the senate while maintaining the house to pass it through first. While it may be a longshot to pass, it may be worth planting seeds to make it more of a politically acceptable alternative in the mainstream

Yeah the country may have moved to the left on the issue (although there are polls dating back to the 80’s that showed most voters want single payer).

Republicans in office will never push for single payer because they’re unabashedly beheld to their corporate donors.

For Republican politicians to endorse single payer, there would have to be some kind of landscape-changing pole shift in politics, probably precipitated by a crisis.

As of today, if single payer was introduced it would get a grand total of zero votes from Republicans in the House and Senate and I don’t see that changing any time soon.

 

[Secure Da Bag]

Yeah the country may have moved to the left on the issue (although there are polls dating back to the 80’s that showed most voters want single payer).

Republicans in office will never push for single payer because they’re unabashedly beheld to their corporate donors.

For Republican politicians to endorse single payer, there would have to be some kind of landscape-changing pole shift in politics, probably precipitated by a crisis.

As of today, if single payer was introduced it would get a grand total of zero votes from Republicans in the House and Senate and I don’t see that changing any time soon.

If we're keeping it a buck, so are Democrats.

 

[Tony D'Amato]

There’s potential here... can’t wait for this to come up in debates.

Does anyone know where this n1gga stands

 

[Dusty Bake Activate]

If we're keeping it a buck, so are Democrats.

Yeah but there are Democrats who are not wholly in service to their corporate donors, unlike Repubs. They’re a minority, but they exist. That’s why M4A has legs among some Dem presidential candidates. It’s not on the table for Republicans, at any level.