Joe Biden’s brilliant critique of Medicare for all has made me rethink my position

chico25

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as opposed to what? you arent? :dead:

everyone in the fukkin thread is guessing. none of this is a reality yet, and you don;t have a same-size country to point to as an example

You could base things on the study done by a conservative think tank that showed that Medicare for all would save 2 trillion dollars over a decade. If experts trying to prove that Medicare for all wouldn't work found that it would actually save that amount of money we can't just go on your opinion to just say it couldn't possibly work.
 

Serious

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In my opinion there will be less abuse in the system if we have a free for all. Doctor's can't just charge whatever rate they want. Government will come up with the prices and it will basically be a take it or leave it situation. However i can definitely see hospitals cutting costs in other ways for example by hiring less doctors/nurses and making you wait much longer for a procedure. This is the downside of free for all. But the rich always have options by getting instant treatment in other countries.
Breh you have no idea about government incompetency.
 

the cac mamba

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my argument is pretty simple; this government cannot even pave a road without going over budget :yeshrug: every city and state that's worth a shyt is in debt trying to provide services to its citizens. i see the exact same thing happening if they try to implement healthcare

So corporate greed is why M4A won't work? Interesting. :ehh:
what part of that was corporate :what:
 

rapbeats

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:leon:There’s potential here... can’t wait for this to come up in debates.
no there isnt. stop it. we've gone over this a 1000 times. I know more than joe when it comes to healthcare. probably know more than bernie. I do this for a living. medicare for all, universal healthcare, whatever you want to call it, is the best move PERIOD.
 

Serious

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I think that can be handled by regulations. The gov't can see what the average wait time is for a doctor's appointment, specialist's appointment, minor or major surgery and based regulations on them. That way they can tell hospitals have to have a fully staffed hospital or urgent care without explicitly telling them.
:russ:
In theory you're correct, but the reality of this, in America is :mjlit::francis:
 

rapbeats

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Breh you have no idea about government incompetency.
you have no idea about intentional & unintentional private sector incompetence.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. i do this for a living. 99.9% of yall dont know what you're talking about.
 

Dusty Bake Activate

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You could base things on the study done by a conservative think tank that showed that Medicare for all would save 2 trillion dollars over a decade. If experts trying to prove that Medicare for all wouldn't work found that it would actually save that amount of money we can't just go on your opinion to just say it couldn't possibly work.
Did the Mercatus study account for Mexicans?
 

the cac mamba

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You could base things on the study done by a conservative think tank that showed that Medicare for all would save 2 trillion dollars over a decade. If experts trying to prove that Medicare for all wouldn't work found that it would actually save that amount of money we can't just go on your opinion to just say it couldn't possibly work.
the federal government would give those savings back, and then some :yeshrug: and the study just throws numbers around without taking into account that the entity that's paying is gonna switch exclusively to the government

let me get this fukkin straight: the federal government is 22 trillion dollars in debt right now, driven by the most unaccountable behavior and money management this planet has ever seen, and im the bad guy for saying i dont trust them to roll this out? :laff:

@For Da Bag
@Domingo Halliburton
@rapbeats
@Mephistopheles

i don't have anything else to say past the above sentence. i'll just let you guys call me a mexican hater, or whatever you're doing :mjlol:
 

rapbeats

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my argument is pretty simple; this government cannot even pave a road without going over budget :yeshrug: every city and state that's worth a shyt is in debt trying to provide services to its citizens. i see the exact same thing happening if they try to implement healthcare

you dont need analogies. there this thing called medicare thats already alive and well. there's this other thing called medicaid thats already alive and well. when i hear people reaching for analogies and examples outside of what is already there to be studied tells me they really have no idea what they are talking about. but they are not willing to admit that. so they try to use other analogies like a hot line in a rap battle that can get the silly crowd to go "ooooooo".

Whatever complain you may have about the government in regards to a possible healthcare takeover. all you have to do is look towards actual MEDICARE and MEDICAID(look at each individual state and their representatives.)

Then start chipping away at it. No need to make up stuff.
 

Domingo Halliburton

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the federal government would give those savings back, and then some :yeshrug: and the study just throws numbers around without taking into account that the entity that's paying is gonna switch exclusively to the government

let me get this fukkin straight: the federal government is 22 trillion dollars in debt right now, driven by the most unaccountable behavior and money management this planet has ever seen, and im the bad guy for saying i dont trust them to roll this out? :laff:

@For Da Bag
@Domingo Halliburton
@Mephistopheles

i don't have anything else to say past the above sentence. i'll just let you guys call me a mexican hater, or whatever you're doing :mjlol:

You said earlier we dont need high taxes because the debt isn't that bad...
 

Serious

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you have no idea about intentional & unintentional private sector incompetence.

I've said it before and I'll say it again. i do this for a living. 99.9% of yall dont know what you're talking about.
I'm well aware of private sector fukkery as well. :francis:
In a lot of instances private sector healthcare facilities are worse.

But the logistics of a universally government entity requires a lot of integrity for foolishness not to persist.
 

rapbeats

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the federal government would give those savings back, and then some :yeshrug: and the study just throws numbers around without taking into account that the entity that's paying is gonna switch exclusively to the government

let me get this fukkin straight: the federal government is 22 trillion dollars in debt right now, driven by the most unaccountable behavior and money management this planet has ever seen, and im the bad guy for saying i dont trust them to roll this out? :laff:

@For Da Bag
@Domingo Halliburton
@rapbeats
@Mephistopheles

i don't have anything else to say past the above sentence. i'll just let you guys call me a mexican hater, or whatever you're doing :mjlol:
They have already rolled it out. again. stop acting like you dont already know this. this isnt some imaginary thing. in addition, other civilized countries have been doing this for years/decades even. lets not act like its brand new. it aint.

"bu bu bu those countries are small". So, they have a smaller tax base.

The #1 thing you get from a medicare for all or universal healthcare or single payer is that you stop taking HUUUGE L's on all the uninsured or under insured people that end up rushing to the doctor under urgent care and emergency services and getting those SERIOUS Surgeries and Treatments done because they dont have preventative care, nor do they have the proper care to help them maintain a healthy life. So you end up getting the extreme of the extremes weighing on the Government's Money(we paid in taxes).

So in other words, its already medicare for all. Its just not nearly as efficient of a setup as it would be if it was Actually setup as medicare for all.

again, you're still missing one of the biggest upsides to that when it comes to us citizens being able to be more mobile in a new world. Without having to think about if you, or your kids that have pre-existing conditions, will have insurance if you leave your current lower paying bad job to get a higher paying good job is what we're use to. that will no longer be an issue.this means people will start to be a bit less scared to make that move to a better situation for themselves and their families financially speaking.

This also means The entire setup will be more streamlind and efficient since we're all on it. which means we know exactly how much it is costing us by pulling data on usage rates for everyone at all times. you dont have nearly as many surprise visits to the emergency as you use to. which means you can PREPARE/BUDGET for the next year, 5 years, etc. Your books will look cleaner overall. you will be able to tell the american people if they need to contribute a bit more out of their wallets in taxes or if what they are giving is currently enough or slight more than enough and some is left in a surplus.

Do you know one of the reasons we're losing money is due to entitlement programs. that is true. right now there are too many old heads and not enough working age young heads to pay into the pot to cover all the 50+ year olds that are needing more and more healthcare in their old ages. thats because my generation was a smaller generation. the following Gen is larger but they got hit with that financial crisis right out of college. which meant their money making abilities was pushed further out.

With medicare for all. everyone, a ton of sick old heads, and a ton of very healthy youngins with jobs paying taxes. will help keep the budget in the green. because we will all be forced into it. there will be no opt out clause. again, because its setup right from the beginning there are no surprises. if taxes need to go up to cover for the old heads entering those "get sick"years. then so be it. raise the taxes. if there are a lot less old heads because they have died off and there are more 20 to 45 year olds around. that are also healthier. then you may want to bring the healthcare tax down a bit.
 
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Serious

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i said i don't see the government being able to take care of the numbers, and on top of that we have X amount of people a year show up at the border who will have to be taken in and given this care while contributing little. i pointed out that no other country has that level of immigrants and illegals, while providing medicare for all. the bolded is not my opinion, it's a fact :yeshrug:

your identity arguments are just embarrassing.
Well having them go to the emergency room isnt the best solution either. A lot of hospitals lose money, by having to internally pay for people that are uninsured. .

Theoretically its cheaper get ahead of the curve.
 
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