Just a Thought on Pastors in the Black Community - From Personal Experiences

invalid

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We are an upper middle class family of 4.

I don't know where you live, but upper middle class people live in places like Alpharetta, Belle Meade, Vestavia Hills, Highland Park.

We Americans are so confused about our class positions.

But back on topic...

What does a perfect god need with money? Why would it even care about a man made construct?

So, like many other black people, I gave it away without proper understanding as to why.

This is the problem that I have with the black church and why I think so many people have fallen away.

There is a very rich Christian philosophical tradition that is absent from the black church. Black pastors seem to focus solely on the psycho-emotional and spiritual needs of their congregants neglecting the intellectual needs. You need all three.

I sort of cringe when I hear people say they fell away from the church because they had unanswered questions. It just means you had an inept pastor.

There are Christian thinkers and philosophers much smarter than us that have been tackling the hard questions for centuries. In many Christian denominations, this intellectual tradition is incorporated. But most times it's absent from the black church.

I would say being agnostic/atheist is a good place but keep seeking. And look outside the traditions of the black church.

If the church would take that money and actually circulate it back into the black communities, we would be lightyears ahead of where we are now as a people.

This is another thing people need to realize about the black church. Most are organized in a non-denominational way. Meaning control is centralized and not hierarchal. The pastor controls the organization as opposed to there being a church denominational structure that controls pastors and their churches on a local level.

When we see these pastors of megachurches, the organization of their church is so that the pastor has all the control like a CEO. Which means they get to set their salaries.

In many other denominations outside of the traditional black church, the church denominations themselves set and cap salaries of church leadership on the local level. Their organizations are hierarchal typically controlled by a national bishop, who oversee regional bishops, who oversee local bishops, who provide oversight to the local pastors and their churches.

If folks have problems with extravagant pastors, then you are at a church where the pastor has sole authority and you should take a look at other denominations where that is not the case. That is not even the typical Christian tradition where there has always been a hierarchy in place for checks and balances but a product of new wave American protestant Christianity that started around the mid 19th century.

I've sat on the vestry board of my parish. The diocese of my church sets the salaries of our church leaders. They have a salary cap and they can make no more. Extravagant church leaders have never been a thing in our denomination.
 
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Hathaway

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You sounding like a jealous bytch over 70k a year lololol, bro just learn to code

nikka i don't even go to church (or pay tithes by extension) because I don't see it as necessary to faith, but this was pathetic. That tithing money keeps your church's lights on and if they're worth a fukk it actually goes into the community via charities, youth activities and scholarships for the kids.
And you clearly didn't read the entire post but I'll let you wade in your own ignorance.
 

get these nets

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happens more than you think. I heard of active pastors who had done nothing but preach for 10 or 20+ years who became agonistic or atheist but were too scared to stop preaching since thats the only thng they had on their resume.
I hear you, and get that point.
Men who are professional Pastors, without day jobs, would be rare in this modern era. And they'd have to head large congregations to be able to do that. I can see it becoming a high pressure job that they get burned out from. Harder for me understand them having epiphany about faith at 40+.
 

bnew

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I hear you, and get that point.
Men who are professional Pastors, without day jobs, would be rare in this modern era. And they'd have to head large congregations to be able to do that. I can see it becoming a high pressure job that they get burned out from. Harder for me understand them having epiphany about faith at 40+.

theres a podcast I listened to a years ago that had an episode about preachers like that, i'll try to find it.
 
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Spectre

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The church is supposed to be a pillar of the community. A place of morality asking us to aim for a higher sense of our good nature.
It's supposed to bring us together and have us be of one faith and purpose which is to care for each other's well being

The regular church (not these spiritual megachurches where the pastors wear ripped balenciagas and gucci belts) but the average church of today never adapted to times of today. Like a relic of times past, it's held up by tradition and people seeking a place of hope and solace.

When pastors start asking for tithe, I don't mind because it's for the community and helping those down on their luck. I'm completely fine with that. But when the pastor pulls up in an S-class and says God needs u to give more of your income for a better blessing, there's something wrong there.

I always view someone by their endgame. The endgame of these pastors are megachurches with private jets and executive positions like fortune 500 companies. When u have a congregation of thousands each day pouring in hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars and also going to your concerts, buying your authored books, listening to your cds and tapes, traveling to your conventions and conferences....it starts to rub me wrong when they say "oh God has blessed me so much" while the average church goer isn't exactly balling.

Does that mean God doesn't care as much for the regular church goer?
 
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kevm3

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This is why the Bible says study to show thyself approved. If people actually studied tithing, they would realize that it doesn't refer to money. It refers to food, hence why it says store it in the STOREHOUSE and not the bank or treasury. The only verse that says to convert the tithe to money is if the place to deliver the tithe is too far, in which case you can convert it to silver to buy whatever your heart desires.

Deuteronomy 14
22 Be sure to set aside a tenth of all that your fields produce each year.

23 Eat the tithe of your grain, new wine and olive oil, and the firstborn of your herds and flocks in the presence of the Lord your God at the place he will choose as a dwelling for his Name, so that you may learn to revere the Lord your God always.

24 But if that place is too distant and you have been blessed by the Lord your God and cannot carry your tithe (because the place where the Lord will choose to put his Name is so far away),

25 then exchange your tithe for silver, and take the silver with you and go to the place the Lord your God will choose.

26 Use the silver to buy whatever you like: cattle, sheep, wine or other fermented drink, or anything you wish. Then you and your household shall eat there in the presence of the Lord your God and rejoice.

27 And do not neglect the Levites living in your towns, for they have no allotment or inheritance of their own.

People get fleeced because they don't read the Bible for themselves and let any spiritual 'shepherd' guide them... but the Bible also tells us

2 Corinthians 11
12 And I will keep on doing what I am doing in order to cut the ground from under those who want an opportunity to be considered equal with us in the things they boast about.

13 For such people are false apostles, deceitful workers, masquerading as apostles of Christ.

14 And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.

15 It is not surprising, then, if his servants also masquerade as servants of righteousness. Their end will be what their actions deserve.
 

bnew

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@Get These Nets

heres the organization that was interviewed in that podcast.

The Clergy Project was launched in March 2011 to create a safe and secure Online Community of Forums composed entirely of religious leaders who no longer hold to supernatural beliefs. Many of our project participants have deep privacy concerns, and for that reason, we place your security among our top tier of priorities. Identify yourself with a pseudonym and an avatar image if you prefer. And our private-access website is held secure with air-tight features to make sure your anonymity is in the best of hands.

In our Online Community of Forums, participants come from a wide range of religious and cultural backgrounds, including Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, Scientology, and more than thirty different segments of Christianity. Our participants reside in forty-nine states in the USA and more than fifty different countries around the globe. We come from varied perspectives of culture and lifestyle. Approximately one-fourth of Clergy Project participants are currently employed in their religious vocation with approximately three-fourths having transitioned out.


In The Clergy Project’s Online Community, forum discussion includes everything from practical concerns like finding a new career path and discerning when and how to come out as a non-believer to one’s spouse to more philosophical conversations centered on ethics and humanism. Services are also available to participants regarding career development and the opportunity for subsidized counseling sessions offered through The Secular Therapist Project.




protip: increase playback speed by 2x.


time flys by, aired 10 years ago.:beli:
 
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invalid

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Harder for me understand them having epiphany about faith at 40+.

You hear about this a lot. I think it may even be more common than we know.

Even more common than that are students entering into theological seminary and leaving having lost their faith. Many are just not prepared or able to process after learning the truth from what they have been taught. Shakes them to their core.
 

kevm3

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The tithe was also for the Levitical priesthood, who couldn't have an inheritance. Your Pastor is not a Levite, nor is he an equivalent.
 

kevm3

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Pac laid it out here and it was so refreshing to hear someone think the same way as I did back then. You bring this topic up with most people and just point out the logic and watch how emotionally they react because the truth is so obvious. Why on earth (or heaven for that matter) would you need an intermediary to access your divinity? Never made sense to me.

Add to that one who charges for access? GTFO. I know a protection racket when I see one and religion is the ultimate hustle that claims billions as it offers ignorance dressed as wisdom for a percentage of your income.


What is ignorant about truly following the Bible?

Why isn't the 'real n1gga, thug life' lifestyle looked at as the ultimate hustle with no real reward? Where did that lifestyle lead Pac and so many other rappers? Penitentiary or the graveyard.
 

Hathaway

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This is why the Bible says study to show thyself approved. If people actually studied tithing, they would realize that it doesn't refer to money. It refers to food, hence why it says store it in the STOREHOUSE and not the bank or treasury. The only verse that says to convert the tithe to money is if the place to deliver the tithe is too far, in which case you can convert it to silver to buy whatever your heart desires.



People get fleeced because they don't read the Bible for themselves and let any spiritual 'shepherd' guide them... but the Bible also tells us
Exactly, also in Genesis when Abraham tithed to Melchizedek.
 
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