Just so we're clear on what and who the Moors are

[mykey]

Alessandro Longhi Portrait of a Young Moor (c. 1760s)

 

[Dzali OG]

What are you talking about? Which Moors were those? The Moors who conquered Iberia and Sicily were the ones who tag teamed with the Arabs? You know the ones that everyone fantasize about "pawging."

As I said, the moors weren't a singular group.

Wait, you think berbers were the only moors? Or rather all moors were berbers?

The people you refer to here:

1. Fez? Has it ever occurred to you that there are OTHER Black Muslims besides Berbers/Moors. Like West African Muslims? Swahili Muslims? Somali Muslims? Etc. More importantly Berbers DO NOT wear Fez...

Are moors, would have been referred to as moors.

2. What does Columbus have to do with anything?

The moors who guided columbus weren't slaves. They were rubbing elbows and plotting a deal.

3. What does Morocco recongizng the 13 colonies have to do with anything? By that time Morocco was controlled by its Arab elites who STILL control Morocco today.

What other reason would Morocco have in recognising and striking a treaty with a supposed rag-tag, upstart colony like the 13?

Firstly realize, the moor lineage goes all the way back to ancient Kemet. You need to start piecing your studies together there and use some common sense instead of what a book tells you to understand what happened. How can a civilization as powerful as kemet fall to lesser foes unless it's an inside job?

The treacherous moors who sold the other africans out date back to the sect of kemites who betrayed kemet to greece and rome.

 

[Dzali OG]

Tribal Africans that were Muslim were considered Moors. When you review slaving records you will see Muslim slaves like some Mandingo and Fulani referred to as Moors all the time.

You are correct, it later evolved to encompass and be nearly synonymous with an Muslim black man.

 

[Swagnificent]

So then when did white supremacy come about?

Around the 1600-1700s.

First it was used to religiously justify slavery. Next it was to separate the white indentured servants from the black slaves. And by the 1800s with the advent of genetics, it started the eugenics movement.

 

[Samori Toure]

Why are nikkas keep posting this crap after its been debunked. Again THOSE ARE NOT Berbers/Moors! @Akan

Some of the stuff written in this thread has been straight

It is clear through the replies that not a lot of people know a lot about the Moors, Jews, Catholic Church and the Inquisitions. Nor do many of the responses reflect that almost no European knew anything about Africa past the desert or the Sudanic kingdoms until the Europeans had contact with the Moors. It should be a hint to most that there was a reason that Spain and Portugal were the first of the Europeans to explore Africa South of the Sahara deserts and made maps like below. The Europeans knew of places like Mali and Ghana, because the Moors had trade contacts with Mali and Ghana.

 

[Dzali OG]

What you are and some others are posting.

But why are you attempting to use hotep in a derogatory manner?

Do you mean informstion which isn't peer reviewed and accepted by academia?

 

[Swagnificent]

How about you pick up a book on the Moors or the very least read the posts in this thread. For one Berber Muslims do NOT wear Fez and never had. These was how the Moors would have look/dressed like.

Second. I already shown that the men with the Fez with Queen Elizabeth were a fighting force from NIGERIA. Third, the men we see in the Congo were from the Swahili Coast and were NOT Berbers. How about you and others actually do research on the role those Swahili slavers from the coast played in the Congo colonization.
https://www.degruyter.com/downloadpdf/books/9783110541441/9783110541441-008/9783110541441-008.pdf

And turbans? So freaking what. Is EVERY African Muslim now a Moor? And I already know what the term Moor means. So you don't have to lecture me. And with the bolded you defalte your own argument. According to your logic EVERY Black Muslim is a Moor even if they had nothing to do with the Iberian invasion. What are you guys smoking?

"Moor" in its true sense meant the Black inhabitants of Northwest Africa. Group who the Europeans largely saw as "Moor" were Black Berber groups such as Masmuda, Sanhaja, Tuaregs, and other Berbers. And NOT West African and Swahili Muslims which you posted.

I gotta disagree with you there. I think a lot of West Africans were Moors as well. It wasn't just limited to Berbers.

 

[Bawon Samedi]

As I said, the moors weren't a singular group.

Wait, you think berbers were the only moors? Or rather all moors were berbers?

"The history of the people of Sanhaja Berber and Arab blood who inhabit Western Sahara goes back hundreds of years. In the XIth century, a confederation of tribes, the "veiled Sanhaja", formed the Almoravid State. The Almoravids were pious Sanhaja marabouts , who left the Sahara to go north where they conquered Morocco. Then there was a split; one faction returned south to the desert while the other crossed the Mediterranean, invaded Andalusia, settling in large parts of Spain, as well a in the present Maghreb. They founded Marrakesh and other centres and there was a great flowering of culture during their reign. However they lost contact with the country of their origin and their former way of life."

Western Sahara - History

The Almoravid dynasty was a Berber dynasty that controlled Morocco and Iberia. They were largely Berbers. The MAJORITY of the Moors were Berbers along with some West Africans. The original term meant the Black inhabitants of Northwest Africa.

"North African, Berber," late 14c., from Old French More, from Medieval Latin Morus, from Latin Maurus "inhabitant of Mauretania" (northwest Africa, a region now corresponding to northern Algeria and Morocco), from Greek Mauros, perhaps a native name, or else cognate with mauros "black" (but this adjective only appears in late Greek and may as well be from the people's name as the reverse). Being a dark people in relation to Europeans, their name in the Middle Ages was a synonym for "Negro;" later (16c.-17c.) used indiscriminately of Muslims (Persians, Arabs, etc.) but especially those in India

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=moor

This whole idea of Moors not being "monolithic" is silly as ALL Africans are Moors. And if thats why the heck are we only targeting those Black Berbers from Morocco?

Then why the heck are we babbling about Aboriginal Black Berbers from NW.Africa selling supposedly helping Europeans colonizing Africa and sell Africans. When... Africans like the Ashanti, Dahomey and other coastal Africans sold other Africans in large numbers. The Ethiopians during colonization not only colonized OTHER Africans such as the Oromos and Niotic groups but AIDED the British against the Somalis and N.Sudanese. Can't have it one way.

The people you refer to here:


Are moors, would have been referred to as moors.

Who cares if they were referred to Moors. They were NOT the Moors that invaded/conquered Iberia. The ones everyone talks about. Which the term was originally used for. if that's your case then fine. But there is zero evidence those Black Berber supposedly helped aided Europeans during colonization. lol!

The moors who guided columbus weren't slaves. They were rubbing elbows and plotting a deal.

WTF!??? Estevanico(the explorer you're referring to) was a freaking slave! What does was he plotting??

Estevanico (1500 - 1539) was an African slave and known as the first person born in Africa who has arrived tin present-day continental United States. During his life, he was known by several names, and even more after he died when he was described by modern historians. Some of those names are Estebanico, Esteban de Dorantes, and Esteban the Moor, although much more are known. He is remembered today not only because of his slave status, but also because he took part in a large exploratory mission that left him one of the few survivors of the Spanish expedition and a guide for three Spanish survivors that also became famous after they managed to reach the territory of New Mexico finally after more than 10 years of journey.

Estevanico Facts - North American Explorer

Then you guys whine when I call yall hoteps.

What other reason would Morocco have in recognising and striking a treaty with a supposed rag-tag, upstart colony like the 13?

??????

It was just a treaty. And Morocco wasn't so mighty at that time as there was a lot of instability especially with the Arabs vs Black Berbers. Who I already MENTIONED to you about Arab elite being in control by then.

Firstly realize, the moor lineage goes all the way back to ancient Kemet. You need to start piecing your studies together there and use some common sense instead of what a book tells you to understand what happened. How can a civilization as powerful as kemet fall to lesser foes unless it's an inside job?

The treacherous moors who sold the other africans out date back to the sect of kemites who betrayed kemet to greece and rome.

Yea not gonna bother with this. Aren't you the same person who believes African-Americans are indignous to America?

 

[Reece]

This is why it's silly to use our modern sensibilities to people who lived in a world before white supremacy as an idelogy and modern concepts of race.

The Moors didn't behave any differently toward other Africans than the Romans and Greeks did toward the Germanic peoples to their north.

We gotta realize that before cacs linked up with one another through white supremacy in the last 500 years that all peoples used to be just tribal and identify with just their tribe/nation.

Or the Mongolians / Japanese to other Asians.

Or the Aztecs / Incans / Mayans to other Central Americans.

Or Persians vs. Arabs vs. "Israelites" (fake Jews) vs. Egyptians.

Or Pakis vs Bengalis vs. Indians.

Or the Vikings to pretty much everybody.

Race as a concept began very recently in the scheme of human history.

It's always been Bloods and Crips. Meaning we don't fukk with yall off brand nikkas over there. You speak different. Worship different gods. Have a different culture. We don't fukk with ya. White people were the ones to start the "race" thing. Moors weren't being c00ns. That's how it was back then. To be honest, it still hasn't changed. Most ethnic groups are still divided from one another.

 

[Bawon Samedi]

But why are you attempting to use hotep in a derogatory manner?

Do you mean informstion which isn't peer reviewed and accepted by academia?

Because what's being posted fits it perfectly. Hotep=Ignoring facts to sprout fantasies. I already dismissed the idea of Berber Moors selling blacks into slavery and showed those "Moors" were not the same ones who conquered Iberia but West African and Swahili Muslims and still you have people trying to argue against the fact. This shyt that yall posted looks like some shyt a cac posted to troll blacks. lol!

It probably was made by a cac trolling.

 

[Bawon Samedi]

So of the stuff written in this thread have been straight

It is clear through the replies that not a lot of people know a lot about the Moors, Jews, Catholic Church and the Inquisitions. Nor do many of the responses reflect that almost no European knew anything about Africa past the desert or the Sudanic kingdoms until the Europeans had contact with the Moors. It should be a hint to most that there was a reason that Spain and Portugal were the first of the Europeans to explore Africa South of the Sahara deserts and made maps like below. The Europeans knew of places like Mali and Ghana, because the Moors had trade contacts with Mali and Ghana.

Yep these clowns just choose what to believe what they want. They do not even care for real African history like they say they do. Europeans were actually IN West African towns(i.e Mali, Songhay) without the help of the Moors. There were Iberians, Jews and Italians in towns like Gao.

 

[Bawon Samedi]

I gotta disagree with you there. I think a lot of West Africans were Moors as well. It wasn't just limited to Berbers.

Moor originally meant the inhabitants of NW Africa. The people commonly listed among the Moors were the Masmuda, Sanhaja, Tuaregs and other Berber groups. There were more Black Berbers who invaded Iberia than there were West Africans. West Africans didn't even have a need to invade Iberia as they were more powerful already especially with the gold and salt trade.

 

[Roland Coltrane]

Not that it matters, but the Moors also sold White people into slavery.

Since we are on the subject; Black people sold Black people into slavery too. Not only did they sale them to White people, but they also sold them to Arabs.

and there were Jewish nazi collaborators.
nobody uses that as an argument for them getting compensation for the Holocaust

 

[Samori Toure]

What does this have to do with the Almoravids and Almohads dynasties which were Berber in origins?

I don't think that some of the posters understand that the Berber people and the Mande, Hausa and Fulani have a long history. They were tied together by trade and religion. It was the Berber people that bought Islam to the Mande people and other African ethnic groups in the Sahel. Those groups have also carried on long distance trade for thousand of years even before the Berbers invaded Spain.

It was trade disputes that led to the Berber people (Almoravids) sacking the Kingdom of Ghana. It was also trade wars that led the Moroccans sack the Kingdom of Songhay.
Songhai Empire - New World Encyclopedia

This doesn't even go into the fact that the Kingdom of Mali subjugated the Berber people like the Tuareg in the Kingdom of Mali.

 

[Bawon Samedi]

I don't think that some of the posters understand that the Berber people and the Mande, Hausa and Fulani have a long history. They were tied together by trade and religion. It was the Berber people that bought Islam to the Mande people and other African ethnic groups in the Sahel. Those groups have also carried on long distance trade for thousand of years even before the Berbers invaded Spain.

It was trade disputes that led to the Berber people (Almoravids) sacking the Kingdom of Ghana. It was also trade wars that led the Moroccans sack the Kingdom of Songhay.
Songhai Empire - New World Encyclopedia

This doesn't even go into the fact that the Kingdom of Mali subjugated the Berber people like the Tuareg in the Kingdom of Mali.

The Almoravid sack of Ghana is said to may have not happened based on evidence. But yea context is thrown out the window in these types of discussions on the Coli.