Kobe Bryant's skill level was simply INSANE

[Cheech&Chong]

Lebron be like, but but Kobe did the same thing

"that wasn't a travel... it was a journey to atlantis "



still trying to look for Lebron's footwork Dank, so for the meantime this or just post FG% of each players in the video

and he argues the call

 

[JYoung24]

I can't even believe these clowns have slipped Wade into this discussion. Why is he even being discussed? He's already told us he's not in the same league as Kobe.

Dwyane Wade calls Kobe Bryant the 'second best' player in NBA history

word these nikkas trying to sneak wade into this lol

 

[JYoung24]

Because
1) There is no universally agreed-upon definition for "clutch"

And
2) Every attempt at defining a clutch situation shows there are other players who have performed better

And
3) Over a long enough sample size any "clutch" performances will regress to the player's career averages.

The problem with "clutch" shots and plays is that those moments are tied to an emotional experience. Either good or bad. And it's that very emotional connection that makes it memorable and subject to biases.

Whatever a teammate may say about a player is interesting. But it's always to be taken with a grain of salt for the very reasons listed above.

It's staggering how you stans can't just appreciate and acknowledge Kobe's greatness without insisting that he's in that select peak tier of all-time players. Because he just isn't.

There's nothing wrong with being a top 12-15 player ever, which is what he is.

he is higher then 12 -15 thats just disrespectful. hes top 5 defiantily aint lower then top 10

 

[Professor Emeritus]

I post ether facts showing that it was Kobe's teammates, not Kobe, that showed out game after game in the clutch in the playoffs, and this is what my alerts look like:

Look bruh. Maybe you like LeBron on some faq shyt. That its him the person that got you defending him. I don't give a shyt about Kobe the person. In fact I hate his guts cause he's a c00n with a lack of empathy of other people.

Big L Was the Biggest W negged you for your post in the thread Kobe Bryant's skill level was simply INSANE. With the following comment: You suck too much lebron dikk
11:13 PM

If you put @Draje @Bilz @The Dankster and @OG_StankBrefs on ignore the coli becomes amazing.

Imagine posting PARAGRAPHS to profess your love for lebron in a thread about Kobe highlights

Not ONE response actually addressing why Kobe's shot disappeared in so many clutch games, or why they don't give Pau/MWP/Fisher/etc credit for winning so many games for the Lakers in the clutch while Kobe did little.


You dumbasses, it's Swag, not me, who just posted the long-ass four paragraph post all about Lebron. I barely have mentioned Lebron in this thread except when replying to something one of YOU TWO said about him.

Hell, the first person to bring up Lebron in this thread was a Kobestan. The first person to bring up Lebron's FG% in this thread was a Kobestan. The first two replies the Kobestan Lebron comment got were....both Kobestans. Once Big L came on the thread, within three minutes he was...posting giant graphics about Lebron.


Ya'all are the ones obsessed. Ya'all are the ones who repeatedly make threads about Lebron even though you don't even like him. How many Kobe threads have you seen Lebron fans start? How often do you see Lebron fans just randomly bring up Kobe on their own in a thread about Lebron? Ya'all were the ones who brought him up here, the ones who keep obsessing about him.

Makes sense though. Fans of a #10-11 guy are going to be obsessed about the #2-3 guy who surpassed him during his own era. Fans of the #2-3 guy have bigger fish to fry.

he is higher then 12 -15 thats just disrespectful.

I agree - #11 is about right. MJ, Lebron, Kareem, Magic, Hakeem, Duncan, Wilt, Shaq, Russell, Bird....then Kobe.

If you're putting Kobe #12-15, then you have to put someone like Jerry West or Malone ahead of him, and that's unjustified.

 

[Donald Trumps Twitter]

This guy

 

[Swagnificent]

I post ether facts showing that it was Kobe's teammates, not Kobe, that showed out game after game in the clutch in the playoffs, and this is what my alerts look like:








Not ONE response actually addressing why Kobe's shot disappeared in so many clutch games, or why they don't give Pau/MWP/Fisher/etc credit for winning so many games for the Lakers in the clutch while Kobe did little.


You dumbasses, it's Swag, not me, who just posted the long-ass four paragraph post all about Lebron. I barely have mentioned Lebron in this thread except when replying to something one of YOU TWO said about him.

Hell, the first person to bring up Lebron in this thread was a Kobestan. The first person to bring up Lebron's FG% in this thread was a Kobestan. The first two replies the Kobestan Lebron comment got were....both Kobestans. Once Big L came on the thread, within three minutes he was...posting giant graphics about Lebron.


Ya'all are the ones obsessed. Ya'all are the ones who repeatedly make threads about Lebron even though you don't even like him. How many Kobe threads have you seen Lebron fans start? How often do you see Lebron fans just randomly bring up Kobe on their own in a thread about Lebron? Ya'all were the ones who brought him up here, the ones who keep obsessing about him.

Makes sense though. Fans of a #10-11 guy are going to be obsessed about the #2-3 guy who surpassed him during his own era. Fans of the #2-3 guy have bigger fish to fry.





I agree - #11 is about right. MJ, Lebron, Kareem, Magic, Hakeem, Duncan, Wilt, Shaq, Russell, Bird....then Kobe.

If you're putting Kobe #12-15, then you have to put someone like Jerry West or Malone ahead of him, and that's unjustified.

Someone is catching feelings

Kobe got you losin ya cool like this bruh? Got you writing dissertations?

 

[Professor Emeritus]

You can pull up whatever numbers you want. You won't change what we saw. We saw Kobe take almost every big shot for him team in clutch moments of the finals. Compare that LeBron who commonly stands in the corner as he watches Kyrie go one on one.

I've never seen Kobe be a bystander in the clutch watching another player go one on one to decide whether he wins a ring or not. That's what happened with Bron in 2016. He watched as Kyrie won him a ring.

Total bullshyt. Lebron outscored ALL PLAYERS FROM BOTH TEAMS COMBINED in the final six minutes of Game 7 in 2016.


Lebron had 9 points in the final six minutes, the entire Warriors team only have four points, Kyrie had one shot and that was it. ONE shot in the final six minutes.

You know how many freaking examples there are of other players shooting instead of Kobe in the clutch?


2009 Game 2 against the Nuggets: Lakers down three with 5 seconds left in the game, and it's Fisher, not Kobe, who attempts the game-tying three.

2009 Game 2 against the Magic. Lakers down two with 33 seconds left in the game and it's Pau, not Kobe, who makes the game-tying bucket to send it into overtime. Kobe misses the potential game-winner with two seconds left. In overtime Kobe only scores 2 of the Lakers' 13 points, with Pau pouring in 7 to put away the game.

2009 Game 3 against the Magic. Kobe only scores 5 of the Lakers' 29 points in the fourth in a tight game (and two of those five are a meaningless layup with half a second left that only cuts the lead to two). Odom (8) and Pau (6) both outscore Kobe in the fourth.

2009 Game 4 against the Magic. Kobe doesn't score in the final 4:45 of regulation - instead it's a game-tying three by Ariza, a layup by Pau, and a game-tying three with 4 seconds left by Fisher that sends the game into overtime. Pau is once again the leading scorer in overtime with 5 points to Kobe's 4, but it's Fisher's game-winning three with 31 seconds left that gives the Lakers the 3-1 series lead.

2010 Game 3 against the Thunder, Kobe only scores 2 of the last 19 points in a tight game. Pau (4), MWP (4), Bynum (3), Odom (3) and Fisher (3) all outscore Kobe late. Kobe's only basket is a layup when the Lakers were down four with 13 seconds left and needed three, not two (Durant made both free throws and Farmar and MWP, not Kobe, tried to hit the threes to get it back).

2010 Game 6 against the Thunder, Kobe only scores 2 of the last 22 points in a tight game. MWP (5), Fisher (5), Walton (5) and Brown (3) all outscore Kobe late. When Kobe misses the potential game-winner with two seconds left, it's Pau that saves the game with a game-winning putback that keeps the series from going 7 and saves the Lakers from a potential first-round exit.

2010 Game 5 against the Suns, Kobe only scores 2 of the last 15 points in a tight game. Fisher (5) and Pau (4) both outscore Kobe late. When Kobe misses the potential game-winner with three seconds left, it's MWP that saves the game with a game-winning putback that keeps the Lakers from going down 3 to 2 heading into Game 6.

2010 Game 7 against the Celtics, Kobe only scores 3 of the last 15 points in a tight game, and those were on intentional fouls. Pau (7 points) is the Laker go-to man down the stretch. Once again it's MWP who makes the shot of the game, a huge three with a minute left that doubles the Laker lead.



And that's JUST those last two championships when Kobe was "the man". Game after game after game, it was Pau's dominance on offense and Pau/Fisher/MWP's clutch shots that made the difference for the Lakers.

Kobe was literally FOURTH on his own team in huge playoff shots during that 2009-2010 run.

The idea that "Kobe made all the shots in the clutch for those teams" is a straight myth and you just got owned.

Now make me a list of all the clutch shots Kobe hit during that reign since you seem to have this all documented? Or would the list be too long and not part of your agenda?

Friend, you claimed that you had NEVER seen Kobe let someone else score the big bucket in the clutch. I just listed 80% of the close games in Kobe's most important championship runs, and it was his teammates who took ALL the clutch baskets during that time. Don't you see how that just proves your "eye test" is a bunch of bullshyt?

You see what you want to see, and remember what you want to remember.


But here, let's look at all the big shots in 2009 and 2010. What's your criteria....how bout shots to tie or take the lead in the final minute?

Pau/Fisher/MWP: 7 for 9

2009-04-23 LAL@UTA 4th 0:11.7 Pau Gasol makes 2-pt shot at rim (LAL 86, UTA 86)
2009-05-21 LALDEN 4th 0:00.9 Derek Fisher misses 3-pt shot from 23 ft (LAL 103, DEN 106)
2009-06-07 LALORL 4th 0:33.5 Pau Gasol makes 2-pt shot at rim (LAL 88, ORL 88)
2009-06-11 LAL@ORL 4th 0:04.6 Derek Fisher makes 3-pt shot from 26 ft (LAL 87, ORL 87)
2009-06-11 LAL@ORL OT 0:31.3 Derek Fisher makes 3-pt shot from 27 ft (LAL 94, ORL 91)
2010-04-30 LAL@OKC 4th 0:38.9 Pau Gasol misses 2-pt shot from 5 ft (LAL 93, OKC 94)
2010-04-30 LAL@OKC 4th 0:00.5 Pau Gasol makes 2-pt shot at rim (LAL 95, OKC 94)
2010-05-08 LAL@UTA 4th 0:28.6 Derek Fisher makes 3-pt shot from 24 ft (LAL 109, UTA 108)
2010-05-27 LALPHO 4th 0:00.8 Metta World Peace makes 2-pt shot at rim (LAL 103, PHO 101)


Kobe: 3 for 9

2009-04-23 LAL@UTA 4th 0:28.9 Kobe Bryant makes 2-pt shot at rim (LAL 84, UTA 84)
2009-04-23 LAL@UTA 4th 0:01.2 Kobe Bryant misses 3-pt shot from 30 ft (LAL 86, UTA 88)
2009-05-19 LALDEN 4th 0:36.9 Kobe Bryant misses 2-pt shot from 21 ft (LAL 99, DEN 99)
2009-05-21 LALDEN 4th 0:45.3 Kobe Bryant makes 2-pt shot from 9 ft (LAL 101, DEN 101)
2009-06-07 LALORL 4th 0:01.8 Kobe Bryant misses 2-pt shot at rim (LAL 88, ORL 88)
2009-06-11 LAL@ORL OT 0:47.9 Kobe Bryant misses 2-pt shot from 15 ft (LAL 91, ORL 91)
2010-04-30 LAL@OKC 4th 0:01.8 Kobe Bryant misses 2-pt shot from 13 ft (LAL 93, OKC 94)
2010-05-08 LAL@UTA 4th 0:54.0 Kobe Bryant makes 3-pt shot from 24 ft (LAL 106, UTA 106)
2010-05-27 LALPHO 4th 0:02.5 Kobe Bryant misses 3-pt shot from 26 ft (LAL 101, PHO 101)



Not only does Kobe have only three makes, notice how they're all in the early rounds and all with lots of time left on the clock?

If we went with Finals it would be:

Pau/Fisher/MWP: 3-3
Kobe: 0-2

And that doesn't even count MWP's big 3pt against Boston.



If we went with final 24 seconds, it would be:

Pau/Fisher/MWP: 4-5
Kobe: 0-4


Actual facts have Kobe's teammates doing just about everything for him in the clutch when it really mattered.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Someone is catching feelings

Kobe got you losin ya cool like this bruh? Got you writing dissertations?

You get destroyed on the facts, and THAT is all you got in reply?

Might as well be waving a white flag.





By the way, speaking of dissertations, remind me who was it who was just out there spewing paragraph after paragraph about Lebron in a Kobe thread?

This is a huge factor. LeBron does have a tendency to shy away from shooting when his shot isn't falling early. Its what led to those games where people are just confused in why he wasn't aggressive. Compare that to Kobe who will keep shooting even if his shot isn't going early. That's what makes Kobe who he is. He don't care about starting 7-20 from the field cause he knows if he keeps shooting that could become 16-30 by the end of the night or some nights he might stay cold and end up going 9-30. If LeBron starts 7-20, he just stops shooting. And will end the game with that 7-20.

Kobe played with a confidence where his bad nights could end up going really bad because he wouldn't stop being aggressive. But that also had the positive cause on his good night he would also stay aggressive and end up with historic feats like 81 points in a game or 62 in 3 quarters.

Its just Kobe being Kobe.

You do know there is a reason LeBron had guys like Bosh and Kevin Love camped out at the 3-point line. He doesn't have Kobe's versatility as a scorer. He could only score driving into the paint and didn't need defenders clogging it up. If a big is in the post, then the paint is permanently clogged. Kobe played his entire career with bigs who clogged the paint hence the reason he had to master the mid-range jump shot.

One of the biggest reasons LeBron's teams always lose in the finals is because he can only play one way. The LeBron-centric offense is not very good for winning championships against good teams. Its easy for teams to defend. However, the types of teams Kobe played on were more difficult to defend because he could do more than just drive into the paint. Because Kobe was so elite as a mid-range he could play with bigs like Shaq, Gasol, and Bynum clogging up the paint. That allowed his team to be able to attack defenses in multiple ways and thus they were able to win more rings than LeBron's teams.

LeBron's "efficiency" is one of the major reasons he keeps losing in the finals. He's not VERSATILE. He lacks the ability to play in different offenses and adapt to different schemes. All he can do is play LeBron James ball. And that type of basketball has now repeatedly been proven to be ineffective for winning championships.

Where in that post did I say that I rate Kobe over LeBron based on rings?

I only said Kobe's style is more conducive to rings than LeBron. Hence the huge difference in records in the finals.

I never said that was the reason I believe Kobe is better.

Reading comprehension breh.



Even if we take out the rings with Shaq, Kobe still went 2-1 in the finals (.667 winning percentage). Way better than LeBron's 3-5 record.

So how about you chew on that.




You can pull up whatever numbers you want. You won't change what we saw. We saw Kobe take almost every big shot for him team in clutch moments of the finals. Compare that LeBron who commonly stands in the corner as he watches Kyrie go one on one.

I've never seen Kobe be a bystander in the clutch watching another player go one on one to decide whether he wins a ring or not. That's what happened with Bron in 2016. He watched as Kyrie won him a ring.

Because if you become really good at those "bad" shots you can lead you team to a championship. Because in the big games in the playoffs and finals when its late in the 4th and nobody is gonna let you get easy shots at the rim, you're gonna need to be able to hit those "bad" shots. You know those mid-range shots with a guy's hand in your face with the clock running out. The type of shots Kobe perfected. And the type of shots that Kyrie has been hitting to bail out LeBron cause LeBron can't hit those difficult contested mid-range jump shots.

There is a reason Kobe is 5-2 in the finals while LeBron is 3-5. Kobe's style is more conducive to winning championships because against the best teams and in the most critical moments "good" shots are rarely available. What is typically available are one on one situations with a hand in your face taking a contested jump shot. That is why Kobe played the way he did. It helped prepare him for those gotta have it moments in critical games.

LeBron on the other hand typically just stands around watching Kyrie try to score in those moments because his one on one skill set is weak.

Now make me a list of all the clutch shots Kobe hit during that reign since you seem to have this all documented? Or would the list be too long and not part of your agenda? Look bruh. Maybe you like LeBron on some faq shyt. That its him the person that got you defending him. I don't give a shyt about Kobe the person. In fact I hate his guts cause he's a c00n with a lack of empathy of other people. Only reason I fukk with him is cause when I WATCHED him he was the baddest muthafukka I ever saw play basketball. Now you can isolate whatever shyt you want, but you can't change what we ALL SAW.

There is a reason almost ALL of Kobe's peers revere him as the best of their generation. He's UNIVERSALLY considered the most clutch by his peers. All these guys didn't just imagine this. Guys like D-Wade and KD didn't just decide to give him these props. This is who he was. You just have an agenda and you cherry pick the facts you want.

I just want you to answer me one question: Why is it only guys who never played the game that say Kobe isn't clutch?

You honestly remind me of this analytics cac who tried to do what you're doing now only to get checked by T-Mac:

Actually it is. Its somewhat counter intuitive but Kobe's style is better for winning than LeBron's style. Because taking those "bad" shots prepare you for the big moments in big games when an elite opponent isn't gonna just let you get an easy or good shot. They're gonna force you to take bad shots. And hitting those "bad" shots is usually the difference between winning or losing a championship.

As I stated earlier, Kobe is 5-2 in the finals and LeBron is 3-5 in the finals for a reason. Kobe's style is more conducive to winning. While LeBron needed stacked teams to reach a 3-5 record, Kobe was able to win 2 straight rings with far less talent because his style was better for actually winning games. Kobe perfected the "bad" shot. So in big moments of big games against elite opponents when they are not gonna let you get easy buckets, he was able to shine. That is why his teams won rings while LeBron's lost.

And honestly if not for Kyrie Iriving (a player with a one on one skill set similar to Kobe) hitting that "bad" shot over Steph in game 7 of the 2016 Finals, the King would be down to just 2 rings. And if not for Ray Allen hitting another "bad" shot against the Spurs in 2013, the King would have only 1 ring.

It was 2 guys making "bad" shots that have salvaged LeBron's legacy. If not for that, LeBron would be 1-7 in NBA Finals.

Yeah, tell me again who be writing dissertations.

 

[LeMAO]

and still no skills video

 

[Professor Emeritus]

p
and still no skills video

Whelp, since showing random "skills videos" of meaningless games is more important to you than actual game results, here you go:






The Internet has hundreds more cherry-picked videos of basically meaningless plays for you if you want.



Meanwhile, shots to tie or lead in the final minute of playoff games:

Lebron: 15-35 (43%)
Kobe: 10-37 (27%)




And Kobe needed six extra seasons just to get up to 10.

 

[MoneyTron]

Yall arguing minor figures. Let's get back to the thread premise.


The footwork, the body control, the dribbling, the misdirection, the fakes.

Who today doing this?

Who today doing this?

Who today doing this?

Who today doing this?

Who today doing this?

 

[MoneyTron]

This one was funny.

That reverse spin...seen LeBron attempt this with disastrous results.

I can do this all day. Out of the triple threat, only dude close is MJ obviously.

 

[LeMAO]

Whelp, since showing random "skills videos" of meaningless games is more important to you than actual game results, here you go:






The Internet has hundreds more cherry-picked videos of basically meaningless plays for you if you want.



Meanwhile, shots to tie or lead in the final minute of playoff games:

Lebron: 15-35 (43%)
Kobe: 10-37 (27%)




And Kobe needed six extra seasons just to get up to 10.

look Dank posted FG% to prove how skillful Lebron is

 

[10bandz]

I post ether facts showing that it was Kobe's teammates, not Kobe, that showed out game after game in the clutch in the playoffs, and this is what my alerts look like:








Not ONE response actually addressing why Kobe's shot disappeared in so many clutch games, or why they don't give Pau/MWP/Fisher/etc credit for winning so many games for the Lakers in the clutch while Kobe did little.


You dumbasses, it's Swag, not me, who just posted the long-ass four paragraph post all about Lebron. I barely have mentioned Lebron in this thread except when replying to something one of YOU TWO said about him.

Hell, the first person to bring up Lebron in this thread was a Kobestan. The first person to bring up Lebron's FG% in this thread was a Kobestan. The first two replies the Kobestan Lebron comment got were....both Kobestans. Once Big L came on the thread, within three minutes he was...posting giant graphics about Lebron.


Ya'all are the ones obsessed. Ya'all are the ones who repeatedly make threads about Lebron even though you don't even like him. How many Kobe threads have you seen Lebron fans start? How often do you see Lebron fans just randomly bring up Kobe on their own in a thread about Lebron? Ya'all were the ones who brought him up here, the ones who keep obsessing about him.

Makes sense though. Fans of a #10-11 guy are going to be obsessed about the #2-3 guy who surpassed him during his own era. Fans of the #2-3 guy have bigger fish to fry.





I agree - #11 is about right. MJ, Lebron, Kareem, Magic, Hakeem, Duncan, Wilt, Shaq, Russell, Bird....then Kobe.

If you're putting Kobe #12-15, then you have to put someone like Jerry West or Malone ahead of him, and that's unjustified.

hate Kobe this much brehs

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Kobestans have completely given up on the idea that the point of taking a shot is to get the ball in the bucket.

Not how pretty the footwork was before the shot.


Ya'all sound like females. "It's how beautiful the art of the shot is, not whether the ball goes in or not. Field goal % is irrelevant."



Field goal percentage matters because the point of taking a shot is to have those shots go in.




Kobestans actually waging a war against making your shots now.