Lamar's Legacy Tracker...

[Mantis Toboggan M.D.]

Damn, I didn’t even think about the context of where the other multi time mvp winners at quarterback were compared to Lamar in terms of their age . He’s done this with his guys at the skill positions dealing with major injuries too. If they get Mark Andrews back for the playoffs

He was a monster in those Rams years. He’s had one of the most fascinating careers I can think of.

That broken hand in 2000, the broken hand/thumb in 2002, and the 2003 concussion did a number on where we’d look at his all time status. On his best day he could hang with anyone, even in Phoenix when he was a little slower and didn’t have quite as strong an arm. My personal opinion is that the 2008 mvp award should’ve gone to him too or at least shared it with Peyton. Got Arizona to a Super Bowl with a defense that gave up 36 touchdown passes during the year and a line that couldn’t open up holes for anyone to hit in the running game . Their coach benched Edgerrin James for a guy who averaged 2.9 yards per carry

All I see is that Tom Brady lost to Eli Manning in 2 Super Bowls and has 2 fewer MVPs than Peyton Manning.

Not my GOAT.

OP is on point, but this is the 2nd most important insight in the thread.

Peyton was 3-2 against the pats in the playoffs too taking the final 3, with all 3 being the afc title game . Couldn’t even post a winning postseason record against a ravens team with Cam Cameron, Dean Pees, & Jim Caldwell as their coordinators & all 4 games in their own building

 

[murksiderock]

You had a whole rant on why Elway was 80s Eli/overrated

And regarding Lamar having plenty of time between you and breh you responded to, that can't be assumed. Cam and Marino say hello. And nah I'm not making comparisons of Lamar the QB to Cam or Dan the QB but just the situation.

Hell KC is in need of a retool but as their top weapon ages, we can't assume they'll get it back right and be the dynasty folks projected.

If the window is open, jump through it. Some would argue the window's been open but squandered with Lamar not finishing his last 2 seasons.

The greats gotta use the Not For Long mantra when hunting banners.

The Elway/Eli comp still fits in terms of big game presence, and being turnover prone. And I do think he's a tad overrated still, there are guys like Cowherd who swear by him as a Top 5 guy. But I think I was too strong on calling him overrated and my stance on Elway has softened over time...

I agree Lamar needs to seize the moment but i dont believe not winning the Super Bowl this year is an indictment on him, unless he completely blows it. What he's done so far in the playoffs, is waaaayyyyy below the standard his regular season self has shown; he's a Regular Season Warrior at this point. But they could lose the Super Bowl and if he plays well, its not consequential to who he is as a player...

My point being, the real thing with Lamar is finally playing near his regular season standard in the playoffs and going on an extended run. He's getting a Rd1 bye, so there's no reason he shouldn't make Rd3 at minimum...

Baltimore got 2 home games

I can see them beating buffalo and Miami easily in the conference championship

Kansas City and Cleveland are tough ass games because they can keep the game close

Both would be tough, Cleveland to me could win the whole tournament though...

Legacy Tracker

Just stop and appreciate what you are seeing in the moment.

Why would you assume that I'm not enjoying the moment? I am...

Personally, once you separate yourself from peers, its fair game to have historical talk/legacy convo about you. They been doing it with Mahomes for several years, really damn near from the start. They doing it with Jokic. And we as a culture have done it forever, we're not about to forget that its well documented that people were calling Michael Jordan one of the greatest players ever well before he won a championship. His play earned that distinction...

That's all I'm doing with Lamar, he's now entering a space where he's among the greatest ever. He's separated himself. If yall dont like this area of sports discussion you don't have to engage, but I'm certainly enjoyong what I'm watching presently and I'm hardly doing anything new...

But career averages includes your prime and anything else. Therefore it’s not a relevant comparison. We don’t even know if Lamar is in his prime yet.

Other than that, the elite stamp usually comes with the clutch factor as regards winning titles - conference, sb, something. Or else, Dallas would be one of the best teams of the 2ks.

I'm not talking about career averages otherwise I'd have posted win percentages for guys' entire careers. Furthermore when we talk about athletes, we aren't really talking about their pre or post prime selves...

When mf's talking about Jordan ain't nobody talking about Wizards Mike unless the conversation is specifically about the Wizards run. When mf's talk about Montana they not talking about when he was in KC unless it's specifically about the KC run. So on and so forth, when we talk great athletes we talking about their primes, whether you understand that's what you're doing or not...

Washington Mike and KC Montana have ZERO effect on these guy's resume. They don't really matter....

What you did when you were in your prime is when you were at your best, how long you were at your best, and it's the marker on where you land historically....

We don't know whether Lamar is in his prime yet, look bro "prime" is subjective, everyone defines it differently...

Ain't nobody in any sport winning Most Valuable Player and they not in they prime ...

 

[BrehWyatt]

Assuming he wins MVP again ... he's a Lombardi and about 5-8 more years of his baseline production from being a first-ballot HOF lock.

 

[mastermind]

Why would you assume that I'm not enjoying the moment? I am...

Personally, once you separate yourself from peers, its fair game to have historical talk/legacy convo about you. They been doing it with Mahomes for several years, really damn near from the start. They doing it with Jokic. And we as a culture have done it forever, we're not about to forget that its well documented that people were calling Michael Jordan one of the greatest players ever well before he won a championship. His play earned that distinction...

That's all I'm doing with Lamar, he's now entering a space where he's among the greatest ever. He's separated himself. If yall dont like this area of sports discussion you don't have to engage, but I'm certainly enjoyong what I'm watching presently and I'm hardly doing anything new...

Legacies aren't made in the moment. They are made with reflection and time. You think they are made in the moment because that's what ESPN has told us, but positions and thinking change. That is why its called legacy.

You can't track that in the moment. If you want to make a career accomplishment up-to-date thread, go for it.

But all of this talk about how he will stand in the future is not appreciating what is happening now

 

[Harry B]

The Elway/Eli comp still fits in terms of big game presence, and being turnover prone. And I do think he's a tad overrated still, there are guys like Cowherd who swear by him as a Top 5 guy. But I think I was too strong on calling him overrated and my stance on Elway has softened over time...

I agree Lamar needs to seize the moment but i dont believe not winning the Super Bowl this year is an indictment on him, unless he completely blows it. What he's done so far in the playoffs, is waaaayyyyy below the standard his regular season self has shown; he's a Regular Season Warrior at this point. But they could lose the Super Bowl and if he plays well, its not consequential to who he is as a player...

My point being, the real thing with Lamar is finally playing near his regular season standard in the playoffs and going on an extended run. He's getting a Rd1 bye, so there's no reason he shouldn't make Rd3 at minimum...

Both would be tough, Cleveland to me could win the whole tournament though...

Why would you assume that I'm not enjoying the moment? I am...

Personally, once you separate yourself from peers, its fair game to have historical talk/legacy convo about you. They been doing it with Mahomes for several years, really damn near from the start. They doing it with Jokic. And we as a culture have done it forever, we're not about to forget that its well documented that people were calling Michael Jordan one of the greatest players ever well before he won a championship. His play earned that distinction...

That's all I'm doing with Lamar, he's now entering a space where he's among the greatest ever. He's separated himself. If yall dont like this area of sports discussion you don't have to engage, but I'm certainly enjoyong what I'm watching presently and I'm hardly doing anything new...


I'm not talking about career averages otherwise I'd have posted win percentages for guys' entire careers. Furthermore when we talk about athletes, we aren't really talking about their pre or post prime selves...

When mf's talking about Jordan ain't nobody talking about Wizards Mike unless the conversation is specifically about the Wizards run. When mf's talk about Montana they not talking about when he was in KC unless it's specifically about the KC run. So on and so forth, when we talk great athletes we talking about their primes, whether you understand that's what you're doing or not...

Washington Mike and KC Montana have ZERO effect on these guy's resume. They don't really matter....

What you did when you were in your prime is when you were at your best, how long you were at your best, and it's the marker on where you land historically....

We don't know whether Lamar is in his prime yet, look bro "prime" is subjective, everyone defines it differently...

Ain't nobody in any sport winning Most Valuable Player and they not in they prime ...

This whole discussion is pointless since I missed that your stats were based on their "primes" not career averages, my bad.

 

[Versa]

Fully came in here expecting you to be hating. Pleasant surprise.

 

[murksiderock]

Legacies aren't made in the moment. They are made with reflection and time. You think they are made in the moment because that's what ESPN has told us, but positions and thinking change. That is why its called legacy.

You can't track that in the moment. If you want to make a career accomplishment up-to-date thread, go for it.

But all of this talk about how he will stand in the future is not appreciating what is happening now

You can feel that way my boy, but that's not how I feel. All that means is that we are two different people and we probably view a range of things in life differently...

I'm creating my legacy with what I'm doing now. In my personal life I don't pause for reflection often but I can see what I've been able to map to this point, and how it's tracking going forward. I don't get to say how people will remember but I do get to create a structure for which people can base their opinions on me into the future...

It's easier to stop and reflect on someone else's legacy...

I haven't watched ESPN consistently since the throes of The Pandemic, mid-2020, and I haven't watched them religiously since I was a teen. The most ESPN gets from me is viewing a game I want to watch. I don't watch a single one of their shows, and lucky for me, I'm assuming you too, I'm able to form my own perceptions on what I'm watching. I don't need their help...

Regarding the potential changes of opinion, that's life too, right? With new information, opinions change. With more seasoning, more maturity, more responsibility, more experience, viewpoints change. I can certainly talk about dozens of non-sports views I have that I didn't always have. Life is change...

If Lamar's career arcs somewhere differently to alter this perspective, we (me, you, anyone) are allowed to view him differently...

 

[BucciMane]

Assuming he wins MVP again ... he's a Lombardi and about 5-8 more years of his baseline production from being a first-ballot HOF lock.

If he wins an MVP this year, he's a lock for the HOF. No way a two time MVP gets left out, no matter the length of career.

Now, for first ballot, I don't think he needs 5-8 more years. His career so far has been great enough for him to make the HOF. I think a few more great seasons and he'd be first ballot. Hell, if he wins a Super Bowl this year, I have zero issue if he'd be first ballot right after the season.

 

[mastermind]

I'm creating my legacy with what I'm doing now.

That's the point. You are creating and crafting it right now. You won't know what your actual legacy is until years down the line with time and reflection where you can judge the impact of your work.

You can do things with your legacy in mind, but nothing is done until we have time and space to really think about it.

 

[murksiderock]

That's the point. You are creating and crafting it right now. You won't know what your actual legacy is until years down the line with time and reflection where you can judge the impact of your work.

You can do things with your legacy in mind, but nothing is done until we have time and space to really think about it.

It's not done, you're right, that's why I periodically "track" what I'm doing. It's why this thread was labeled "tracker", not "evaluate Lamar's finished career" ...

We just view this a little differently, g. It's okay...

 

[mastermind]

It's not done, you're right, that's why I periodically "track" what I'm doing. It's why this thread was labeled "tracker", not "evaluate Lamar's finished career" ...

We just view this a little differently, g. It's okay...

You can't track what is determined in the future.

What you are tracking is career accomplishments.

 

[concise]

Isn’t dude like 26? Why are we talking about his legacy?

ESPN talking points have contaminated everything.

Legacy
QB wins




These are the people that have guys like Trent Dilfer feeling like superstars because their teammates dragged them along the way to a championship.

 

[Dipsey Doo]

Let him win a Super Bowl first before we start talking legacies

Shaun Alexander, Boomer Esiason, Ken Anderson and Steve McNair all have MVPs aren't in the HOF

 

[Dr. Narcisse]

Assuming he wins MVP again ... he's a Lombardi and about 5-8 more years of his baseline production from being a first-ballot HOF lock.

Let him win a Super Bowl first before we start talking legacies

Shaun Alexander, Boomer Esiason, Ken Anderson and Steve McNair all have MVPs aren't in the HOF

@murksiderock I got into it with a poster earlier this year about the Ravens needing to do a better job to ensure Lamar isnt McNair status.

People realized his value but it was looking like he might be 4th or 5th in QB Pro Bowl voting cause of the #s. They finally stopped letting Edwards get all the TDs.

Going forward its imperative that the Ravens dont get so conservative with Lamar cause of the wealth of talent in the AFC.

The MVP might get him in the HOF, but for him to be a 1st ballot type they need to emphasize his greatness in a loaded conference of future great QBs imo.

Not to mention if guys like Deshaun Watson ever return to form.

 

[BrehWyatt]

@murksiderock I got into it with a poster earlier this year about the Ravens needing to do a better job to ensure Lamar isnt McNair status.

People realized his value but it was looking like he might be 4th or 5th in QB Pro Bowl voting cause of the #s. They finally stopped letting Edwards get all the TDs.

Going forward its imperative that the Ravens dont get so conservative with Lamar cause of the wealth of talent in the AFC.

The MVP might get him in the HOF, but for him to be a 1st ballot type they need to emphasize his greatness in a loaded conference of future great QBs imo.

Not to mention if guys like Deshaun Watson ever return to form.

I think the Ravens will absolutely do that if he ever brings them a Lombardi. From what I've seen -- even though it was like pulling teeth at times and it hasn't always been successful -- no team has made a more concerted or committed effort to maximize their franchise QB than the Ravens have with Lamar. I believe they are a banner away from that organization basically anointing him as the GOAT QB of their franchise's history.