Lebron and Kobe

[Malik]

All this BS can be denied by the fact that Lebron averaged 30 PPG, on Cleveland, on 50% which is still more impressive than any season Bean has done.

Kobe averages 31 on 22 shots, or 36 on 27, Lebrob averaged 30 three times on Cleveland on higher FG% than Kobe ever sniffed.

Bye.

Kobe putting up 35ppg > Lebron putting up 30ppg

Unless you're one of those nutjobs that think Bron could score 5 more points that easily. Those five extra points a game over 82 games would drop his fg% to Kobe's fg% or probably lower. I think lower

 

[Dwight Howard]

How is being stupid about shot selection a flaw?

Lebron scores Kobe numbers on better efficiency. If he's TRYING to do that, how does that diminish it? If two players score a similar amount of PPG, the more efficient scorer did better.

efficiency is being overated. Durant is perceived as a better scorer than Bron and he doesnt shoot as high as a FG%, so lets just stop using that as a benchmark. You shoot shots closer to the rim, you have a higher FG%. its that simple. FG% is more revealing of one's offensive play style. And 35 ppg and 31 ppg arent in the same range at all, when it comes to Kobe and Bron. Thats a huge difference

 

[the kid]

If Bron could get off more shots at the same efficiency rate, he would do it. It doesnt make sense to live in the world of make believe. He gets the shots he gets. Dont extrapolate his avgs to make him seem better than he is. Apparently Bron values his stats, field goal % being one of them he values highly, so he wont sacrifice it to put up more shots. I mean, he never ever takes the long shot at the end of quarters, when it is actually the best basketball play. That should tell u how much he values the shooting %.

 

[Jesus Is Lord]

Malone isn't better, because he wasn't more effective than Shaq at scoring the ball. Not just because Shaq is a better dunker. In the playoffs Malone usually underperformed whereas Shaq took his play to another level. Phil ran the offense through Shaq when Kobe was a Laker. That right there says a lot. You are underrating the hell out of Shaq.

I would MEVER underrate Shaq, I think you're underrating Malone and other POSSIBLE players who were just as good of a SCORER (only) as Shaq, MJ, and Kareem (as what was listed by the TS). I'm not talking about who was better in the playoffs, where did you get THAT from? The reason Phil ran the offense through Shaq had NOTHNG to do with who was a BETTER SCORER IN THEIR PRIMES. Are you serious? You're moving goal posts, please stick to what we are debating about. You agreed that Shaq, Jordan and Kareem were the best scorers in their PRIMES right? All I'm doing is showing you that there were other players who were PROBABLY better or right there with them.

 

[madeyoulook]

Lebron is obsessed about his stats while Kobe does not really give a damn. I remember watching him stealing rebounds from Cavs players all the damn time. He reminds me of when I consciously try to get a triple double in nba 2k.

So his obsession, size, and position can easily explain the rebound disparity.

His assist numbers can be similarly explained. He has had good 3 point shooters at the PG and SG spot throughout his career. He also has had Ilgauskas and Bosh as big man that can shoot or score close to the basket off pick n roll play.
When Kobe had decent shooters, Shaq prevented him from going into playmaker mode most of the time. The only decent shooter he has had after Shaq is fisher and he fell of hard after 2010. Fisher is not even a 40% career 3 point shooter.
Gasol is not a good pick n roll guy. He prefers being in the post unlike Bosh and Ilgauskas. Plus Gasol clanks a lot of his jumpers unlike Bosh and Ilgauskas.

Mo Williams and Delonte West are better career 3 point shooters than Fox, Horry, and Fisher.

Now do I need to mention the automatic shooters he has had in Miami? He has had automatic shooters that cater to his style of play from the start of his career.

 

[GreatestLaker]

I would MEVER underrate Shaq, I think you're underrating Malone and other POSSIBLE players who were just as good of a SCORER (only) as Shaq, MJ, and Kareem (as what was listed by the TS). I'm not talking about who was better in the playoffs, where did you get THAT from? The reason Phil ran the offense through Shaq had NOTHNG to do with who was a BETTER SCORER IN THEIR PRIMES. Are you serious? You're moving goal posts, please stick to what we are debating about. You agreed that Shaq, Jordan and Kareem were the best scorers in their PRIMES right? All I'm doing is showing you that there were other players who were PROBABLY better or right there with them.

Malone had playoff runs where he shot 42% and overall he shot 46% in the playoffs and he was a big man. You're overrating him if you think he was as good or a better scorer than Shaq. Kobe was close to his prime in 2001 and 2002 and Phil still thought it was best that the offense ran through Shaq, because of how efficient of a scorer he was in the post. Could you imagine Phil running the offense through Malone instead of Kobe? No, right?

 

[Reid2Achieve]

I think the differences in mindset and intangibles goes a long way. During Kobe's prime I felt like almost every shot was going in. He had an aura of confidence that was easy to rally behind.

But Lebron is in his prime now, and there is nothing to really criticize at this point. I don't think he's as spectacular or entertaining as Kobe but you can't argue the results....

 

[madeyoulook]

I think the differences in mindset and intangibles goes a long way. During Kobe's prime I felt like almost every shot was going in. He had an aura of confidence that was easy to rally behind.

But Lebron is in his prime now, and there is nothing to really criticize at this point. I don't think he's as spectacular or entertaining as Kobe but you can't argue the results....

During Lebron's prime, I feel like every shot he puts up is going to go in unless it is further than 5 feet from the basket

 

[Jesus Is Lord]

Malone had playoff runs where he shot 42% and overall he shot 46% in the playoffs and he was a big man. You're overrating him if you think he was as good or a better scorer than Shaq. Kobe was close to his prime in 2001 and 2002 and Phil still thought it was best that the offense ran through Shaq, because of how efficient of a scorer he was in the post. Could you imagine Phil running the offense through Malone instead of Kobe? No, right?

You're STILL talking about Malone in the playoffs? It has nothing to do with it.Malone is #2 all-time so yes I believe he is just as good as a scorer as Shaq, in their primes too.


Do you realize that primes are short windows? The offense still would ran through Shaq no matter what team he played for, if he was on Chi with Mike, Scottie and Phil, guess who the offense would've ran through? Shaq. Why? It wont be because he's a better scorer than Jordan in is prime I'll tell, you that.

 

[IGSaint12]

Consistency is pretty irrelevant in this case. When you consider player A admittedly pads his FG% while player B doesnt give a damn, it makes the comparison pointless. I mean, Player C is shooting a worse clip than player A this year, but he has EASILY surpassed him as a better scorer, despite not being as 'consistent'.

Pretty much. Kobe doesn't give a damn about his fg%. You could even see that last year when teams were purposely fouling dwight to get him to the free throw line. Kobe was jacking up half court shots like they were nothing just trying to help the team out by scoring before they fouled dwight. Could you imagine lebron doing what kobe did in his place? No, lebron cares too much about his fg% to take bail out shots or anything that would risk making his stats look worst. Lebron is an admitted stat protector. Nice try though OP

 

[Jesus Is Lord]

Here you go, I'm not comparing Kobe and MJ, how convenient breh and you want a unbiased debate?

Now back to the subject,you still need consistency to get to #4 all-time, right? Shaq wasn't a more dominant scorer than Kobe, he was a more dominant PLAYER because of his scoring, rebounding and OVERALL presence. Averaging 40 points a month on seperate occasions is dominant and consistent scoring, that's something ONLY WILT has done and it was done vs. "lesser comp" according to you.


No one is comparing Malone and MJ.

You don't think someone is better because they're higher o the list BUT you put Kareem on the list of who's a better scorer in their prime over Kobe? Why? Why is Kareem on your short list with MJ? Kareem is the epitome of a consistent scorer who played 20 years but you hold the same thing against Kobe? Kareem hasnt shown scoring dominance like Kobe has. And you want a an unbiased debate?

@Draje I need your rebuttal to this.

 

[GreatestLaker]

You're STILL talking about Malone in the playoffs? It has nothing to do with it.Malone is #2 all-time so yes I believe he is just as good as a scorer as Shaq, in their primes too.


Do you realize that primes are short windows? The offense still would ran through Shaq no matter what team he played for, if he was on Chi with Mike, Scottie and Phil, guess who the offense would've ran through? Shaq. Why? It wont be because he's a better scorer than Jordan in is prime I'll tell, you that.

Malone is the number #2 because of LONGEVITY. He isn't a better scorer than Shaq period, Malone wasn't even a better scorer than Barkley. The playoffs shows you how ineffective Malone was as a scorer. How are you just going to ignore the most important part of the season? David Robinson was arguably better than Hakeem in the regular season, but Hakeem used to take his play to another level in the playoffs and Robinson's play regressed, because of that Hakeem is considered a better player of the two. The playoffs are important. To act like its not is silly.

edit: Karl Malone had John Stockton spoon feeding him on nearly ever play. That's another factor you can't ignore.

 

[Jesus Is Lord]

Malone is the number #2 because of LONGEVITY. He isn't a better scorer than Shaq period, Malone wasn't even a better scorer than Barkley. The playoffs shows you how ineffective Malone was as a scorer. How are you just going to ignore the most important part of the season? David Robinson was arguably better than Hakeem in the regular season, but Hakeem used to take his play to another level in the playoffs and Robinson's play regressed, because of that Hakeem is considered a better player of the two. The playoffs are important. To act like its not is silly.

edit: Karl Malone had John Stockton spoon feeding him on nearly ever play. That's another factor you can't ignore.

Malone is #2 because of consistent elite scoring and longevity. You don't get 36,000 on longevity alone.

Did I say Malone was a better scorer than Shaq? Where?

Malone was a better scorer than Charles, even Charles says this when he talks about him, Malone and Duncan. So stop it breh.

Ignore the most important part of the season? You're ignoring the subject.....better scorer in their PRIMES

 

[GreatestLaker]

Malone is #2 because of consistent elite scoring and longevity.

Did I say Malone was a better scorer than Shaq?

Malone was a better scorer than Charles, even Charles says this when he talks about him, Malone and Duncan. So stop it breh.

Ignore he most important part of the season? You're ignoring the subject.....better scorer in their PRIMES

Look at the advanced stats. They back up Shaq and Barkley being better scorers than Malone.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/o/onealsh01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/malonka01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/barklch01.html

This is what Barkley said a year ago.

One of the things about my game, though, was that I could do all my stuff on my own. I think I'm in the top 20 of players of all time. You take Karl [Malone] -- he needed John Stockton. That's not a knock on Karl. I didn't need a point guard. I could get mine any time I wanted to.

I'll say it on the record: I was better than Karl. He was great. I was better. The only thing he could do better than me was score and that came down to John Stockton.

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/blogsjazznotes/55867421-62/barkley-karl-malone-charles.html.csp

He is right, Barkley was better at creating his own shot, had more scoring moves and he was the more efficient scorer, but Karl Malone scored more points, because he had Stockton creating plays for him.

 

[Jesus Is Lord]

Look at the advanced stats. They back up Shaq and Barkley being better scorers than Malone.
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/o/onealsh01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/m/malonka01.html
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/barklch01.html

This is what Barkley said a year ago.

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/blogsjazznotes/55867421-62/barkley-karl-malone-charles.html.csp

He is right, Barkley was better at creating his own shot, had more scoring moves and he was the more efficient scorer, but Karl Malone scored more points, because he had Stockton creating plays for him.

Breh you just said that Charles was a better scorer (I said he wasn't) but then post HIM saying that Malone was a better scorer

So the stats show hit Malone at his peak dropped 31ppg game, Shaq's peak was 29ppg. Malone dropped at least 20 ppg in 17 straight seasons, Shaq dropped 20ppg in 14 straight. Malone had 12 seasons of 25 ppg and Shaq had 10 seasons of 25 ppg. Now how does this show Shaq was a better scorer than Malone? If anything it proves the opposite (which what I wasn't trying to do) when ALL I said that Malone is right there with Shaq when it comes to scoring in their primes.

Notice how the posts keep moving by brinig up Charles. I'm stopping right here.