ALonelyDad
Veteran
Lebron to SA would be such an interesting fit, I think that is the only team he can join that can beat the Warriors, obviously they would have to add more. But Lebron and Kawhi, you don't get better than that.
Lebron Frustrated, Concerned About Cavs' Offseason #LeBronNeedsMoreHelp
- Thread starter Ron Mexico
- Start date
Mantis Toboggan M.D.
I’m here for the scraps
Given how useless love was the last two finals, we all should stop with the whole "if love was healthy" for 2015 because at this point it should be clear that he offers them little on offense against the warriors and is arguably their weakest link on defense when the team has a lot of weak links on defense. His being out hurt was a big reason they were able to push it to 6 games.
I'm not talking about the past I'm talking the future, this current golden state team is a completely different animal. The Cavs as currently constructed cannot beat this Warriors team in a 7 game series unless an injury or a suspension is involved.....hell they would've gotten swept this year had the league not stepped in on game 4 with those bogus calls.
This warriors team is constructed perfectly to defeat the LeBron system, no matter where he goes he won't get past them. It's over
Curtis Nightfish
▓▓▒▒▒▒▒▒▒▓▓
I'm not talking about the past I'm talking the future, this current golden state team is a completely different animal. The Cavs as currently constructed cannot beat this Warriors team in a 7 game series unless an injury or a suspension is involved.....hell they would've gotten swept this year had the league not stepped in on game 4 with those bogus calls.
This warriors team is constructed perfectly to defeat the LeBron system, no matter where he goes he won't get past them. It's over
Pretty much this. They were pretty evenly matched before KD joined. It has completely changed the dynamic. Who is guarding KD on the Cavs roster? It was evident in the Finals LeBron had no interest in playing defense, let alone for 35 minutes, on Durant.
Who else? TT?
Channing Frye?
Love?
Rest of the roster Guards.
damning fact right here
Rigby.
The #1 Rated Mixtape of all Time
I mean they had no match for him on offense last series. He shyt in Draymond's mouth almost every time he wanted it and was their second best shooter by a good margin. That game 5 was pretty much a relapse into old ways. But he did get dikked defensively I'll admit
Rigby.
The #1 Rated Mixtape of all Time
I don't think they were evenly matched, its just that Kyrie and LeBron producing hero ball was enough to make up most of the way, and everybody else could perfectly fit in diminished role. Think of it like a 85-15 harmony. With KD, it needs to be even more hero ball between those two and an almost equal performance from a third star, and the role players have to play almost flawless. That's just frankly impossible with the ease everyone in Golden State is allowed to play with. whoever dethrones GSW will need three stars (at least) capable of playing close to, if not better than Love, Irving, and LeBron's best PLUS they need nearly flawless role players. Maybe that's why people wanted the Spurs to get a third star (CONLEY) so bad, because they perfectly fit that recipe. That's REALLY why need Melo to go to the Rockets, because they've shown flashes of fitting that recipePretty much this. They were pretty evenly matched before KD joined. It has completely changed the dynamic. Who is guarding KD on the Cavs roster? It was evident in the Finals LeBron had no interest in playing defense, let alone for 35 minutes, on Durant.
Who else? TT?
Channing Frye?
Love?
Rest of the roster Guards.
I'd say the biggest threats right now
1. Rockets
2. Spurs
3. OKC (they can break the mold if they can their role players to make it a 50-50 balance between heroism and contributors)
4. Lakers? They're the only team that has annually been able to beat GSW so why not
It would be a 'Durant Move' version 2.0 imo
Would he seriously play for a fanbase that has hated his guts for the past 10 years not to mention you're going to follow in Kobe's footsteps
charknicks
All Star
Man, what are you talking about? You dont read, do you? The numbers I posted are the salaries for the 2 teams for THIS UPCOMING SEASON. There is nothing to dispute in those numbers. They are factual numbers.
Yeah, the cap is at $99 million. Cleveland is spending $140 million total and Golden State $135 million. Yeah, they would be over the cap. The point is to show what each team is spending their over the cap/luxury tax money on.
LeBron can replicate that by not spending about $25 million on 1 trick ponies like JR and Shump (who he wanted on his team), or Korver (who cant defend). They can develop young players to pick up some key minutes at lower salaries. (Like McCaw does for GSW, and Jordan Bell will this season. Or he couldnt get a David West type to come to Cleveland for $3 million?
Thats the point. You added nothing to the conversation.
$33.28 million is NOT 23.2% of a $99 million cap, it's almost 34% of the cap. That and every other percentage you wrote is completely off.
You probably shouldn't use condescending statements like "what are you talking about?" and "You don't read, do you?" when you not only misunderstood my rebuke, but made numerous elementary math errors.
If you understood that the first three salaries on your list already used up over 75% of the cap, you might begin to understand why there wasn't room to sign anyone else big under the cap.
No, not spending money on JR and Shump and Korver does NOTHING to help them "replicate" anything Golden State did because even without JR and Shump and Korver, Cleveland would still be over the cap.
What don't you understand about that? There is NOTHING Lebron could have done in 2014 that would have had a reasonable expectation to be a title contender in 2015 and 2016, and yet still had extra cap space just lying around to sign a max-level player in the 2016 offseason. You don't understand the basic fact.
On what planet do you think that McCaw and Jordan Bell and David West meant ANYTHING to whether the Warriors won a title or not?
McCaw played 34 minutes TOTAL in the Finals. Made three shots. He averaged 2.2 points/game on 27% shooting. Golden State fans yelled at the coach every time he was on the court and it wasn't garbage time.
The Warriors could have replaced McCaw, Bell, and West with me, Scitt, and Gil-Scott Heroin and they still would have won a title last year. It's absolutely ridiculous to pretend like any of those scrubs were the key to winning.
Curry
Klay
Durant
Draymond
Zaza
Iggy
Livingston
THOSE seven players are why the Warriors won the title last year. You talk about the Cavs completing, you have to talk about getting guys who can compete on that level, not getting more McCaws and Bells and Wests. Cavs could have filled up their entire bench with McCaw-Bell-West level players, and it would have done NOTHING for their title hopes.
The Cavs have tried to develop young players - Derrick Williams, Joe Harris, Sasha Kaun, Jordan McRae, Kay Felder, Imam Shumpert, Edy Tavares, and Cedi Osman are 8 young guys they picked up and gave time the last 2-3 years.
The Cavs have tried to pull in cheap vets - Jefferson, Birdman, Bogut, Sanders, Miller, Marion, James Jones, Jeff Green, Dahntay Jones, Korver, D-Will, and Jose Calderon are all cheap vets that they picked up in the last 2-3 years.
But guess what - chances are that none of those guys are going to make them overcome the Warriors. They might help a little - Shump has fulfilled a major need for them, Jefferson was a key piece last year, Derrick Williams and Cedi Osman and Tavares might still pan out. But if you are going to overcome a roster with 4 All-NBA players and a 5th guy who could pull a Finals MVPs, then you need players on that level, not late-round rookies and cheap vets.
KillbertArenas
Superstar
$33.28 million is NOT 23.2% of a $99 million cap, it's almost 34% of the cap. That and every other percentage you wrote is completely off.
You probably shouldn't use condescending statements like "what are you talking about?" and "You don't read, do you?" when you not only misunderstood my rebuke, but made numerous elementary math errors.
If you understood that the first three salaries on your list already used up over 75% of the cap, you might begin to understand why there wasn't room to sign anyone else big under the cap.
No, not spending money on JR and Shump and Korver does NOTHING to help them "replicate" anything Golden State did because even without JR and Shump and Korver, Cleveland would still be over the cap.
What don't you understand about that? There is NOTHING Lebron could have done in 2014 that would have had a reasonable expectation to be a title contender in 2015 and 2016, and yet still had extra cap space just lying around to sign a max-level player in the 2016 offseason. You don't understand the basic fact.
On what planet do you think that McCaw and Jordan Bell and David West meant ANYTHING to whether the Warriors won a title or not?
McCaw played 34 minutes TOTAL in the Finals. Made three shots. He averaged 2.2 points/game on 27% shooting. Golden State fans yelled at the coach every time he was on the court and it wasn't garbage time.
The Warriors could have replaced McCaw, Bell, and West with me, Scitt, and Gil-Scott Heroin and they still would have won a title last year. It's absolutely ridiculous to pretend like any of those scrubs were the key to winning.
Curry
Klay
Durant
Draymond
Zaza
Iggy
Livingston
THOSE seven players are why the Warriors won the title last year. You talk about the Cavs completing, you have to talk about getting guys who can compete on that level, not getting more McCaws and Bells and Wests. Cavs could have filled up their entire bench with McCaw-Bell-West level players, and it would have done NOTHING for their title hopes.
The Cavs have tried to develop young players - Derrick Williams, Joe Harris, Sasha Kaun, Jordan McRae, Kay Felder, Imam Shumpert, Edy Tavares, and Cedi Osman are 8 young guys they picked up and gave time the last 2-3 years.
The Cavs have tried to pull in cheap vets - Jefferson, Birdman, Bogut, Sanders, Miller, Marion, James Jones, Jeff Green, Dahntay Jones, Korver, D-Will, and Jose Calderon are all cheap vets that they picked up in the last 2-3 years.
But guess what - chances are that none of those guys are going to make them overcome the Warriors. They might help a little - Shump has fulfilled a major need for them, Jefferson was a key piece last year, Derrick Williams and Cedi Osman and Tavares might still pan out. But if you are going to overcome a roster with 4 All-NBA players and a 5th guy who could pull a Finals MVPs, then you need players on that level, not late-round rookies and cheap vets.
Stfu
Johnny Kilroy
79 points in 1 quarter
There aren't enough players in the NBA to form a a team that can beat Golden State. Only chance is if LeBron's (future) team gets Klay. If they get Klay they get one of the all time great catch n shooters, a guy capable of dropping 60 any given night, and an elite wing defender. They would also be taking all that away from Golden State. But even though he's the 4th wheel now, he's not leaving Golden State. Too much weed and too many parades. It's a wrap. Golden Stte might 4-peat out this bih. 
charknicks
All Star
$33.28 million is NOT 23.2% of a $99 million cap, it's almost 34% of the cap. That and every other percentage you wrote is completely off.
You probably shouldn't use condescending statements like "what are you talking about?" and "You don't read, do you?" when you not only misunderstood my rebuke, but made numerous elementary math errors.
If you understood that the first three salaries on your list already used up over 75% of the cap, you might begin to understand why there wasn't room to sign anyone else big under the cap.
No, not spending money on JR and Shump and Korver does NOTHING to help them "replicate" anything Golden State did because even without JR and Shump and Korver, Cleveland would still be over the cap.
What don't you understand about that? There is NOTHING Lebron could have done in 2014 that would have had a reasonable expectation to be a title contender in 2015 and 2016, and yet still had extra cap space just lying around to sign a max-level player in the 2016 offseason. You don't understand the basic fact.
On what planet do you think that McCaw and Jordan Bell and David West meant ANYTHING to whether the Warriors won a title or not?
McCaw played 34 minutes TOTAL in the Finals. Made three shots. He averaged 2.2 points/game on 27% shooting. Golden State fans yelled at the coach every time he was on the court and it wasn't garbage time.
The Warriors could have replaced McCaw, Bell, and West with me, Scitt, and Gil-Scott Heroin and they still would have won a title last year. It's absolutely ridiculous to pretend like any of those scrubs were the key to winning.
Curry
Klay
Durant
Draymond
Zaza
Iggy
Livingston
THOSE seven players are why the Warriors won the title last year. You talk about the Cavs completing, you have to talk about getting guys who can compete on that level, not getting more McCaws and Bells and Wests. Cavs could have filled up their entire bench with McCaw-Bell-West level players, and it would have done NOTHING for their title hopes.
The Cavs have tried to develop young players - Derrick Williams, Joe Harris, Sasha Kaun, Jordan McRae, Kay Felder, Imam Shumpert, Edy Tavares, and Cedi Osman are 8 young guys they picked up and gave time the last 2-3 years.
The Cavs have tried to pull in cheap vets - Jefferson, Birdman, Bogut, Sanders, Miller, Marion, James Jones, Jeff Green, Dahntay Jones, Korver, D-Will, and Jose Calderon are all cheap vets that they picked up in the last 2-3 years.
But guess what - chances are that none of those guys are going to make them overcome the Warriors. They might help a little - Shump has fulfilled a major need for them, Jefferson was a key piece last year, Derrick Williams and Cedi Osman and Tavares might still pan out. But if you are going to overcome a roster with 4 All-NBA players and a 5th guy who could pull a Finals MVPs, then you need players on that level, not late-round rookies and cheap vets.
Cool, you my dude so its all good. I just got the info off a website about the salaries. The amounts are % of the total team salary. Of course both of these teams are over the cap.
Cleveland Cavaliers 2017-18 Salary Cap
Golden State Warriors 2017-18 Salary Cap
Thats not the point of the convo. The point is: key players such as Iguodala, Livingston are with manageable salaries. (By the way, Bell is a rookie and was in college last year). David West is a key player who CAN do more if needed, but isnt needed on this team. Thats how good the Warriors' TEAM is, which is the point. The Cavs cant count on Channing Frye to do anything key (despite being 6'10 and making $8M/season). The key rebounder, Tristan Thompson ($16.4M) couldnt outrebound Steph Curry (a PG) in the Finals. LeBron wanted Thompson there, and he couldnt get boards on Curry, and ZAZA. (Zaza, man).
Cheap vets- what the hell did you think Mike Miller and Dahntay Jones were supposed to come in and do? Seriously. Shumpert fulfilled a major need? Really? Did the team need 4/17 shooting in the Finals? Did they need 3.6 pts/2 rebs? Deron Williams went 2/16 shooting? Team paid Channing Frye to play 11 minutes (1 game) in the finals? Team needed that, right? What are you talking about?
Come on, man.
Thanks man, we good, I'll tone shyt down on my side.
The point being that it's not % of team salary that matters, it's % of salary cap. Once a team is over the salary cap, it doesn't matter how much more they spend.
Most teams need to pay three max salaries to get three All-NBA players. The fact that the Warriors already had there All-NBA players in 2016 without having had to play a single max salary required the intersection of four different miracles. If Curry hadn't been injured and paid ultra-cheap, if Dray or Klay had gotten their big contract, if Barnes hadn't refused his contract offer...then Durant never would have come and the Cavs would still have had at least a 50-50 chance to beat the Warriors last year.
Yes, Shumpert filled a MAJOR need. You're talking a guy who played 409 minutes in the last three Finals. Who the hell plays those minutes instead of Shump? Take him off the 2015 team and the Cavs don't have a single backup guard for most of their playoff games. He started 31 games last year alone. Take him off the 2016 and 2017 teams and who are the Cavs playing at guard in the regular season when Kyrie or JR are out? Who is the defensive stopper at guard off the bench even when JR is playing? As much as Shump sucked, they absolutely needed him.
They got D-Will and Frye because they came cheap. Who would you have preferred they got instead? My point is that they TRIED to find cheap vets just like Golden State did, and sometimes they worked and sometimes they didn't. But what serious option are you suggesting?
David West = Richard Jefferson, so I don't know why you bring him up. Both teams had at least one cheap old vet who worked out. But you right - West isn't needed because the Warrior core SEVEN is so good. And so we got to look at how they got that seven and stop talking about irrelevant players on the end of hte bench.
TT failed on rebounding in the playoffs...but what were the Cavs supposed to do instead? Next to Lebron, TT was the most important defender on the entire team from 2015-2017. If they let him walk, how would they have replaced him? They would STILL have been over the cap even without his salary. If he resigned for cheap (say $10 million), they STILL over the salary cap, so what difference does it make? They simply couldn't get anyone who could do what TT could do whether his salary was on the books or not.
He's a candle in the sun, that sh*t don't even out 