Lebron just so sick !!!

[GetSomeMoney]

Show me where I suggested defense doesn't come into the equation?

So that means that there is no other option for the MVP because if people wanna say Durant and Lebron's offense is even (which its not, Lebron has the edge, can do way more on the floor and a better passer) Lebron's defense is 10 times better than Durant's, so as the guy said, if anyone else is an MVP you aren't watching the NBA and don't know basketball.

 

[Malta]

Like LeBron and Wade never lead the league in FTA.

Harden is number 1, Kobe is at right at 4, and LeBron is 6th(which is real low this year). If you're aggressive and attack the basket, you're going to get rewarded.

I don't know what's going on with the Heat's freethrow attempts this year, the Big 3 combined barely take more than just Westbrook and Durant.

 

[SwagKingKong]

Pierce was the only person on that roster that could reliably create a shot for himself off the dribble, nobody else. And it doesn't matter why he won the finals MVP, he won it.

No, it has nothing to do with the rules, the rules existed when old ass Shaq was still scoring 20 a game, the rules were in place when Duncan averaged 20ppg on 14 shots. It is an issue of skill, not the rules, if Andrew Bynum could average 19 a game with his post game and Pau not being the greatest of floor spacers, there should be zero doubt in anyones mind that better post players wouldn't be able to feast today.

The zone isn't anything new, and has been around for a long ass time, the issue is that big guys aren't taught properly how to play in the post. Are the zone rules causing High school big men to play on the perimeter? It's starting long before these guys get to the NBA, a great center would be just as effective today as they were in the past.





He said number 1 options, you know, the guy who the team is built around.

The hell does that even mean, Pierce was the only one who could create off the dribble? So what, Garnett still took, and made more attempts than Pierce during the 08 playoffs. And yeah, Parker was better than Duncan when he won his FMVP too, right?

Uhm, what? It definitely has to do with the rule changes. the no hand check rule essentially made it a guards league. Yes, post players can still feast but not as easily as before. all the rule changes has basically made it EASIER for guards and HARDER for big men.. Not saying big men can't be effective, it's just harder therefore a skill like being able to hit jumper is a vital one in todays game.. before? Not so much.

And what? Big men are taught to operate in the post, wtf ? Of course they are taught to play in the post. It's just not the only focus coaches have when developing young big men but obviously you want your big men to be able to finish around the rim at a high rate.

and FYI, the zone returned in 2002, it's not long ago since we were still seeing illegal defenses in the NBA. Same year as the defensive three second was implented, which also made it tougher for big men to be.... just big.

 

[ghostwriterx]

Basically every PF in the league... ?

I'm not saying they have to be first option on their teams, obviously many won't simply because it's a guards league because of the rule changes.

But the jump shooters are the first options between the front court players.. Examples;

Perkins / Ibaka
DeAndre / Griffin
Kaman / Dirk
Cousins / Thompson
Noah / Boozer
Bogut / Lee
Hibbert / D.West
All Jeff / Millsap
Hickson / Aldridge

All of the bolded attempt and hit alot of jumpers and are the primary offensive weapons between the two bigs position. Compare that to the list you made, in which the primary offensive weapon up front was the traditional back to the basket guys like Shaq, Hakeem, Zo etc.

Blake, West and Boozer, over 50% of their shot attempts are 9 feet or close to the basket. Ibaka's lack of a dominant post game is the one thing holding him back. It's easier to defend a big who takes a majority of jump shots. It's a lower percentage shot and its one less big man on the offensive glass. Low post beasts create more floor space than jump shooting big men, because you don't have to double team jump shooting big men.

 

[Malta]

The hell does that even mean, Pierce was the only one who could create off the dribble? So what, Garnett still took, and made more attempts than Pierce during the 08 playoffs. And yeah, Parker was better than Duncan when he won his FMVP too, right?

So what? uh, jumpshooting big men usually need someone else to create their shots for them. It's part of the reason why KG needed that team around him, while the Spurs won a title with a bummy roster in 03.

Parker was better during the finals, Duncan was more important overall

Uhm, what? It definitely has to do with the rule changes. the no hand check rule essentially made it a guards league. Yes, post players can still feast but not as easily as before. all the rule changes has basically made it EASIER for guards and HARDER for big men.. Not saying big men can't be effective, it's just harder therefore a skill like being able to hit jumper is a vital one in todays game.. before? Not so much.

The rules are not the cause, we stopped seeing great post players coming into the league LONG before the rule change, so what are you saying? The last great big man was drafted in 97, and the hand check rules were not implemented until the 04-05 season, so please tell me what happened between 1997 and 2005. If you want to link it to the zone, then tell me where the post players went between 97 and 02.

Big men not staying in college long term has had more of an affect on post players than the rules. It's really not hard to see that guys entering the draft early is really the main cause of this. It took a cot damn personal tutor for Bynum to learn to play with his back to the rim.

And what? Big men are taught to operate in the post, wtf ? Of course they are taught to play in the post. It's just not the only focus coaches have when developing young big men but obviously you want your big men to be able to finish around the rim at a high rate.

and FYI, the zone returned in 2002, it's not long ago since we were still seeing illegal defenses in the NBA.

Are you living under a rock? Go watch some AAU ball, the tallest kids on the floor typically have no desire to play in the post and have no idea how to operate with their backs to the rim.

It's easier to teach someone how to knock down a 17 footer than it is to work with them on playing in the low post not facing the rim, very little development takes place with NBA players during a season.

 

[ThaBronxBully]

Tyson Chandler Went 12-13 With 28 Points, 10 Rebounds & 2 Steals Against The Nets, Shot 4-4 From The Free Throw Line Too

 

[SwagKingKong]

Blake, West and Boozer, over 50% of their shot attempts are 9 feet or close to the basket. Ibaka's lack of a dominant post game is the one thing holding him back. It's easier to defend a big who takes a majority of jump shots. It's a lower percentage shot and its one less big man on the offensive glass. Low post beasts create more floor space than jump shooting big men, because you don't have to double team jump shooting big men.

Yes, it's a lower percentage shot.. But it doesn't take as much time to get to the shot. This is why teams like Memphis are below average offensively(ranked 18th), it takes too much time off the clock to get the ball into the post. It's easier to deny the post then it is to deny the ball to a big man on the perimeter.. Obviously, you'd like a big man who could get all of his attempts in the paint, and doing it at a high volume, but it's basically impossible in todays NBA.

And your last sentence is absolutely not true. Low post players doesn't create more floor space than jump shooting big men. Spacing is best created by players who can spread the floor.

 

[Malta]

Yes, it's a lower percentage shot.. But it doesn't take as much time to get to the shot. This is why teams like Memphis are below average offensively(ranked 18th), it takes too much time off the clock to get the ball into the post. It's easier to deny the post then it is to deny the ball to a big man on the perimeter.. Obviously, you'd like a big man who could get all of his attempts in the paint, and doing it at a high volume, but it's basically impossible in todays NBA.

And your last sentence is absolutely not true. Low post players doesn't create more floor space than jump shooting big men. Spacing is best created by players who can spread the floor.

Memphis also has Mike Conley and Tony Allen in their backcourt, not exactly knockdown shooters You can collapse on Zach and Gasol without really worrying about anyone hitting shots, put better shooters in the backcourt and they'd be better offensively.

It's not impossible, I can't go back to 06-07 (25ppg) for the stats, but in 07-08 Yao scored 52% of his shots in the paint (22ppg). And we all know Yao operated no further than 15 feet out, basically foul line and down. For comparison, last year 53% of Bynum's shots came from inside. It's all a matter of skillset and nothing more, not rules.

 

[SwagKingKong]

So what? uh, jumpshooting big men usually need someone else to create their shots for them. It's part of the reason why KG needed that team around him, while the Spurs won a title with a bummy roster in 03.

Parker was better during the finals, Duncan was more important overall





The rules are not the cause, we stopped seeing great post players coming into the league LONG before the rule change, so what are you saying? The last great big man was drafted in 97, and the hand check rules were not implemented until the 04-05 season, so please tell me what happened between 1997 and 2005. If you want to link it to the zone, then tell me where the post players went between 97 and 02.

Big men not staying in college long term has had more of an affect on post players than the rules. It's really not hard to see that guys entering the draft early is really the main cause of this. It took a cot damn personal tutor for Bynum to learn to play with his back to the rim.





Are you living under a rock? Go watch some AAU ball, the tallest kids on the floor typically have no desire to play in the post and have no idea how to operate with their backs to the rim.

It's easier to teach someone how to knock down a 17 footer than it is to work with them on playing in the low post not facing the rim, very little development takes place with NBA players during a season.

Garnett needed someone to create for him, yet he managed to attempt the most shots and make the most shots during the Celtics playoff run in 08. Dirk in 11.. with a pick-n-pop offense it's extremely easy for jump shooting big men to get quality shots, especially when most teams switch in todays game.

What? The rules are absolutely the reason as to why big men aren't as dominant today. You don't believe that zone, defensive three seconds and hand checking rules are things that makes it MUCH harder for big men while makes it easier for guards? It's pretty well known that Stern has tried to make this a guards league, with an easier way to get to the basket for guards for highlight plays.

I love how you ask me a question about post play during 97-02, when one of the most dominant post players of all-time reached his peak during that period, in Shaq. Other notable post players: Alonzo Mourning, who had a three year stretch of 20 / 10 during that period. Duncan, Sabonis, Sheed (who only started taking a ridiculous amount of threes after most of the rule changes..), Karl Malone....

Well, I'm not aware of how they coach big guys in USA cause I'm in Europe but I can tell you that big men do work on their low post game here. I have no clue what AAU ball even is.

 

[ghostwriterx]

Memphis also has Mike Conley and Tony Allen in their backcourt, not exactly knockdown shooters You can collapse on Zach and Gasol without really worrying about anyone hitting shots, put better shooters in the backcourt and they'd be better offensively.

It's not impossible, I can't go back to 06-07 (25ppg) for the stats, but in 07-08 Yao scored 52% of his shots in the paint (22ppg). And we all know Yao operated no further than 15 feet out, basically foul line and down. For comparison, last year 53% of Bynum's shots came from inside. It's all a matter of skillset and nothing more, not rules.

Exactly, along a similar vein look at the Knicks offense when Melo is out, those 3 point looks dry up when Melo's not putting in work on the block.

 

[ghostwriterx]

Yes, it's a lower percentage shot.. But it doesn't take as much time to get to the shot. This is why teams like Memphis are below average offensively(ranked 18th), it takes too much time off the clock to get the ball into the post. It's easier to deny the post then it is to deny the ball to a big man on the perimeter.. Obviously, you'd like a big man who could get all of his attempts in the paint, and doing it at a high volume, but it's basically impossible in todays NBA.

And your last sentence is absolutely not true. Low post players doesn't create more floor space than jump shooting big men. Spacing is best created by players who can spread the floor.

Go back and watch last year's Finals, that was some of Lebron's most extended time put in the post in his career, Battier and Miller feasted off of that.

 

[SwagKingKong]

Memphis also has Mike Conley and Tony Allen in their backcourt, not exactly knockdown shooters You can collapse on Zach and Gasol without really worrying about anyone hitting shots, put better shooters in the backcourt and they'd be better offensively.

It's not impossible, I can't go back to 06-07 (25ppg) for the stats, but in 07-08 Yao scored 52% of his shots in the paint (22ppg). And we all know Yao operated no further than 15 feet out, basically foul line and down. For comparison, last year 53% of Bynum's shots came from inside. It's all a matter of skillset and nothing more, not rules.

Sure, Memphis would most likely benefit from surrounding zach and marc with better shooters but the offense still probably wouldn't be top 10, which is should be based on individual talent.

Agree to disagree. If you don't believe that the rule changes between 97-2005 has something to do with big men not being as effective you're delusional. I don't think you understand the series of rules that were implemented between this period of time. The five second back to the basket rule, defensive three seconds, zone, no hand checking, the infamous shaq rule.. Like I'm saying, there's a reason why wing players points averages have gone up while big men have dipped.. it's a guards game. As someone who's used to euro basketball.. I can tell you that NBA lanes are basically wide open for guards to penetrate in. It's a totally different game really. That's why NBA game is more ISO than ever and euro ball is all about moving the ball.

 

[SwagKingKong]

Go back and watch last year's Finals, that was some of Lebron's most extended time put in the post in his career, Battier and Miller feasted off of that.

Big men generally don't have the court vision of LeBron nor the ability to draw defenders like he will. He's the exception, not the rule.

 

[Malta]

Garnett needed someone to create for him, yet he managed to attempt the most shots and make the most shots during the Celtics playoff run in 08. Dirk in 11.. with a pick-n-pop offense it's extremely easy for jump shooting big men to get quality shots, especially when most teams switch in todays game.

That's the difference, great post players don't need others to create their shots for them. You simply dump the ball into the low block and say "Get us two big fella" and they go to work. I don't view it as quality shots when the tallest guy on your squad is taking long range jumpers

What? The rules are absolutely the reason as to why big men aren't as dominant today. You don't believe that zone, defensive three seconds and hand checking rules are things that makes it MUCH harder for big men while makes it easier for guards? It's pretty well known that Stern has tried to make this a guards league, with an easier way to get to the basket for guards for highlight plays.

It is not the rules, and I stand by that opinion, the rules may have changed to make things easier for guards to score but the ineffectiveness of big men is not linked to that. Like I said, Yao scored 22ppg with 52% of his shots coming from inside the paint, and Bynum got to 19ppg on just 13 shots per game. If someone comes a long with Bynum's game and size, but with more reliable knees and slightly more quickness they will decimate the league.

I love how you ask me a question about post play during 97-02, when one of the most dominant post players of all-time reached his peak during that period, in Shaq. Other notable post players: Alonzo Mourning, who had a three year stretch of 20 / 10 during that period. Duncan, Sabonis, Sheed (who only started taking a ridiculous amount of threes after most of the rule changes..), Karl Malone....

You clearly didn't understand what I was asking, where were the post players being drafted from 97-02? The rules weren't in place yet to affect how players developed, so why then did we see post players in the draft just straight up vanish at around the time we also saw an influx of HS players and underclassmen entering the draft. If it was a case of the rules causing them to start hoisting up jumpers, then why exactly did they start to fade into "bolivia" years before the rule change.

Well, I'm not aware of how they coach big guys in USA cause I'm in Europe but I can tell you that big men do work on their low post game here. I have no clue what AAU ball even is.

If you've read my posts, I've said over and over again that I feel the next great big man will come from Europe because of that fact. AAU ball is the HS circuit here that kids do during the summers or after their HS season, it has turned into a showcase with little coaching or development going on for the players.

The development of big men in the US historically takes place in College, most of our best centers ever were almost always much older as rookies than the guys currently hitting the league. Off the top of my head as rookies the average age between Wilt, Shaq, Kareem, Hakeem, Patrick, David and Duncan was around 22 years old, Shaq was the youngest at 20. The guys hitting the league now aren't nearly as developed in the post, and teams generally don't devote much time to it and why we're seeing the rise of the "defensive center" that can only set screens, rebound, block shots and dunk.

 

[ghostwriterx]

Big men generally don't have the court vision of LeBron nor the ability to draw defenders like he will. He's the exception, not the rule.

And he's not even really "great" in the post yet... now imagine what a great post player with even average vision does...