LeBron keeps cookin defenders with this weak ass move

[killacal]

Bought my nephew some Brons after he signed, and he said "Why they so heavy?"

I put my foot in the first model of brons and I was like...this nikka built different

 

[Controversy]

then maybe someone in the NBA should figure out a way to keep him out of the lane.....

30,000 points later.....i dont think thats happening

He's super athletic, he's gonna score

Ppl tout his efficiency but truth is he's not efficient outside of the paint

 

[Swagnificent]

You really overrate the 00s guys. Not that they weren't great in their own right, but come on...

LeBron's prime didn't much overlap with AI or Mac, but you're on some good dope if you think those guys would render him less popular. Two guys who struggled to win in an even more inferior era of The East than the one LeBron dominated, yet you gas those dudes constantly...

LeBron and Kobe's primes overlapped for about 9 years, I don't know why guys on here act as if they never played with each other. In that time, both won two titles, two FMVPs, both missed the '05 playoffs...

LeBron played in the weaker conference but led his team to the better regular season record all but 2008, with a better traditional statline H2H (28.6/7.9/7.3/2.1/0.7, .469/.310/.709) vs Kobe's (26.1/4.9/5.1/1.2/0.2, .420/.297/.853), both on roughly 22 shots/game...

Conference finals record was LeBron 4-1/Kobe 3-0; LeBron got to more Finals, Kobe lost twice in the 1st Rd, LeBron 4 MVPs to Kobe's 1, and the telling stat is H2H LeBron was 13-5 vs Kobe in the 9 years their prime overlapped...

Shouldn't have to qualify this, but obviously they met at different stages of their primes, Kobe mid-to-late prime, LeBron early-to-mid prime, but they were both Top 10 players right around 2004-2013. So this isn't a tiny sample size, nikkas on here can have whatever justifications they want to prefer Kobe but all the evidence is on deck for people to view, if they apparently didn't actually watch the games they matched up against one another in real time...

We saw them in real time so we already know Kobe was more popular early but that didn't nullify LeBron matching his popularity about halfway thru...

You can call his game ugly but none of these "pretty nikkas" put forth stronger results so whatever point you're making is inconsequential...



A ton of it is built on generational bias, stop it. And while I enjoyed Kobe's game, and wouldnt characterize him as "inefficient" given the main era he played in, he was less efficient than LeBron...

Kobe is often characterized as the "best bad shot maker" ever. Which is kind of a backhanded compliment----->he took a lot of bad shots. Again, you've never heard me call him "inefficient" because we have to weigh players in the time they played, but he missed alota shots, bro. If you're objective, where does that come into play re: beauty of game?

I also never saw him as a greater defender than LeBron, maybe on ball, but LeBron was a more impactful defender period and his ability to control a game based on his defensive versatility and acuity was a level of skill Kobe didn't have. That doesnt factor into "beauty of game"? All the handles and shyt, again I think you place higher precedence on that and other fundamentals like footwork, which, while if a guy who is strong on fundamentals is notable, that shyt has literally zero bearing on the results you put on the table...

If it did the most technically sound players would dominate the NBA period, and that has never been the case in the 21 years I've watched basketball...

Guys who played against both are certainly entitled to their opinion and I don't begrudge them for it, but we're not about to pretend there isn't generational bias, it's very obvious...

This thread is about LeBron's ugly style of play. Not his overall ability as a player. You and that clown @Rhakim are so damn insecure you done turned this thread into a referandum on Bron as a player rather than him as an entertainer.

We've had the Kobe vs LeBron debate a million times already. I personally don't have the interest in me today to get into that again. You know all my counters to all your silly points so why even go there? I'm guessing its cause you know what we're saying in this thread is true. Bron's game is ugly. Effective? Yes. But nonetheless not entertaining to watch. Similar to how James Harden has an effective game but most find it unwatchable.

Post whatever stats you want to make yourself feel better. Doesn't change the reality that he simply doesn't inspire and captivate audiences the way Jordan and Kobe did. There's a reason "Be Like Mike" was a saying or how everyone yells "Kobe" whenever they shoot at a real or imaginary basketball. Nobody says "LeBron" in any context. That right there should tell you he simply doesn't have a game people aspire to the way they did with Jordan and Kobe.

 

[Swagnificent]

There is actual skill involved in mastering an aesthetic game. Theres this disingenuous take going around like a "pretty" game is just for the sake of looking pretty but its really a lot of nuances and strategies involved. The footwork, Jukes, fakes and head fakes, and certain angles on the jumper and fadeaways are all fundamentals. It gets a bad rap but depending on your size that's ALL u got.

Some people just cant bulldoze to the rim for easy buckets. I admire players who have aesthetically pleasing games, but I hold players who have that type of game AND win with the highest regard. Lebron game ain't the most aesthetically pleasing, with the exception of his passing, and it is very effective but I'll always feel Kobe and MJ is better all time. Excellent highlight level skill AND multiple time winners.

Great post. Prolly the best in this entire thread.

Couldn't have said it better myself. Aesthetic styles are a symbol of mastery of the game.

 

[murksiderock]

@Swagnificent

Saying LeBron isn't entertaining is your opinion, stop stating it as if it is fact. I'm plenty entertained by his play and judging by the revenue and ratings he generates, it looks like you're the one attempting to create a false narrative...

Playing at the highest level in the highest stakes and winning with consistency is the symbol of mastery of the game. All the aesthetic shyt is window dressing without results, and if a guy can equal or surpass your results with lesser "prettiness", what exactly are we talking about here?

 

[Swagnificent]

Besides the exhibition scrimmages or games that people love to cite, Bean didn't exactly have a great success rate of stopping Bron so I've always taken his comment to be strictly bravado and IQ-based, not results-driven...

This again? Didn't I already educate you on this?

The reason Kobe has embrassed LeBron in exhibition games like the 2007 Team USA Scrimmage and the 2012 All-Star Game is because in exhibition games LeBron can't hide behind a pick n roll.

In normal NBA games there are a lot more set offensive schemes run. And LeBron James run teams always run a ton of pick n rolls. Those picks allow Bron to hide from Kobe's one on one defense cause it forces switches. In exhibition games its more like an open run at your local gym where the players play more one on one basketball. Nobody calls for a pick in an open run. Similarly there aren't many pick n rolls in exhibition games. Its more one on one basketball. And its in the one on one context that Kobe tended to expose LeBron's limitations as a player.

Think of it like Bron is a zone corner who almost always play zone in the regular season. But then in the Pro Bowl the teams will play mostly man to man cause zone requires more practice and teamwork. Thus getting exposed in the Pro Bowl when you finally have to play man to man matters cause it shows your limitations as a player.

 

[murksiderock]

This again? Didn't I already educate you on this?

The reason Kobe has embrassed LeBron in exhibition games like the 2007 Team USA Scrimmage and the 2012 All-Star Game is because in exhibition games LeBron can't hide behind a pick n roll.

In normal NBA games there are a lot more set offensive schemes run. And LeBron James run teams always run a ton of pick n rolls. Those picks allow Bron to hide from Kobe's one on one defense cause it forces switches. In exhibition games its more like an open run at your local gym where the players play more one on one basketball. Nobody calls for a pick in an open run. Similarly there aren't many pick n rolls in exhibition games. Its more one on one basketball. And its in the one on one context that Kobe tended to expose LeBron's limitations as a player.

Think of it like Bron is a zone corner who almost always play zone in the regular season. But then in the Pro Bowl the teams will play mostly man to man cause zone requires more practice and teamwork. Thus getting exposed in the Pro Bowl when you finally have to play man to man matters cause it shows your limitations as a player.

Basketball that really matters isn't played 1v1. So you can overvalue what happens in settings that don't actually matter, I prefer placing value on what guys do in the settings that actually mean something...

Lmao at a Pro Bowl analogy. No one ever watched a Pro Bowl and took anything tangible away from it...

 

[Dr. Narcisse]

Basketball that really matters isn't played 1v1. So you can overvalue what happens in settings that don't actually matter, I prefer placing value on what guys do in the settings that actually mean something...

Lmao at a Pro Bowl analogy. No one ever watched a Pro Bowl and took anything tangible away from it...

Yea Vick use to light it up in the Pro Bowl...that didnt mean he was the best passer in the league.

 

[Swagnificent]

@Swagnificent

Saying LeBron isn't entertaining is your opinion, stop stating it as if it is fact. I'm plenty entertained by his play and judging by the revenue and ratings he generates, it looks like you're the one attempting to create a false narrative...

Playing at the highest level in the highest stakes and winning with consistency is the symbol of mastery of the game. All the aesthetic shyt is window dressing without results, and if a guy can equal or surpass your results with lesser "prettiness", what exactly are we talking about here?

Just cause you're the tallest midget doesn't make you tall.

As I said before, who has Bron had to compete with this era? Durant? Curry? Harden? Giannis? None of those guys have aesthetic styles either. Its like trying to tell me Larry Bird was entertaining to watch because he was so popular and dominant in the 1980s. Well when the rest of the league is filled with stiffs sure he stands out. But if Kobe, T-Mac, Iverson, Wade, and Vince were playing in the 80s, there wouldn't be many people calling Bird entertaining.

Bron just has been part of an era of ugly basketball. If he came into the league in 1996 instead of Kobe he would not have been more popular than Iverson, T-Mac, and Vince. At least among black folks. nikkas would have fukked with Iverson, T-Mac, and Vince's more aesthetic styles before they fukked with LeBron despite him being the better player.

 

[Swagnificent]

Basketball that really matters isn't played 1v1. So you can overvalue what happens in settings that don't actually matter, I prefer placing value on what guys do in the settings that actually mean something...

Lmao at a Pro Bowl analogy. No one ever watched a Pro Bowl and took anything tangible away from it...

First of all, I only used the Pro Bowl example as an analogy idiot. Because the differences between a zone versus man corner is something most casual sports fans already understand. Most fans don't yet grasp the difference between isolation scorers like Kobe and pick n roll players (i.e. the rest of the league).

Now onto your primary point. You are the one that claimed Kobe couldn't really embrass LeBron essentially saying the exhibition games were flukes. I responded by telling you exactly why they weren't flukes. That its only in those contexts that we've ever really seen LeBron and Kobe go head to head. You posting those head to head stats are what is disingenous because you cite them as if they mean that LeBron has dominated Kobe in their matchups. When it couldn't be further from the truth. LeBron hid behind screens in nearly every game while Kobe attacked from isolation like he always does.

When Kobe and LeBron actually have matched up mano y mano without the aide of pick n rolls, Kobe has embrassed him. Whether you think those situations are important is irrelevant. They happened. And honestly anyone who has ever played ball knows that is ultimately what matters when competing against a guy. Its how we all grew up playing ball at the start. One on one is basketball at its purest.

 

[Karume]

That shyt looks like Booker T shooting a 3

I shoot 3s great

 

[murksiderock]

Just cause you're the tallest midget doesn't make you tall.

As I said before, who has Bron had to compete with this era? Durant? Curry? Harden? Giannis? None of those guys have aesthetic styles either. Its like trying to tell me Larry Bird was entertaining to watch because he was so popular and dominant in the 1980s. Well when the rest of the league is filled with stiffs sure he stands out. But if Kobe, T-Mac, Iverson, Wade, and Vince were playing in the 80s, there wouldn't be many people calling Bird entertaining.

Bron just has been part of an era of ugly basketball. If he came into the league in 1996 instead of Kobe he would not have been more popular than Iverson, T-Mac, and Vince. At least among black folks. nikkas would have fukked with Iverson, T-Mac, and Vince's more aesthetic styles before they fukked with LeBron despite him being the better player.

First of all, I only used the Pro Bowl example as an analogy idiot. Because the differences between a zone versus man corner is something most casual sports fans already understand. Most fans don't yet grasp the difference between isolation scorers like Kobe and pick n roll players (i.e. the rest of the league).

Now onto your primary point. You are the one that claimed Kobe couldn't really embrass LeBron essentially saying the exhibition games were flukes. I responded by telling you exactly why they weren't flukes. That its only in those contexts that we've ever really seen LeBron and Kobe go head to head. You posting those head to head stats are what is disingenous because you cite them as if they mean that LeBron has dominated Kobe in their matchups. When it couldn't be further from the truth. LeBron hid behind screens in nearly every game while Kobe attacked from isolation like he always does.

When Kobe and LeBron actually have matched up mano y mano without the aide of pick n rolls, Kobe has embrassed him. Whether you think those situations are important is irrelevant. They happened. And honestly anyone who has ever played ball knows that is ultimately what matters when competing against a guy. Its how we all grew up playing ball at the start. One on one is basketball at its purest.

Stop with the Vince Carter plugs...

You know people can actually find receipts to disprove what you're saying? Like this GW Bron hit on Kobe without a screen:



The reality is they gave each other buckets. Saying Kobe embarrassed LeBron is a half-truth, as when they did guard each other, he was prone to either foul LeBron, get backed down, get blown by, or as evidenced in this one clip, get a j drained in his grill...

Not to mention, picks are part of the sport and on this same highlight you can see Kobe hit a j on Bron with the aid of a pick, so let's not pretend Kobe didn't also benefit from the rules of the sport. Buckets are buckets...

There were times he played good D on Bron, and he got his share of baskets on LeBron as well. The major difference is those two usually played in marquee prime time games, and LeBron played routinely bigger. In their overlapping primes, Kobe shot sub-40% a whopping eight times and got 25% of his points at the foul line. You're a competent basketball mind, if a guy shoots 42% overall, in prime time games he plays you, with 25% of his total points coming at the line, what does that tell you?

For me, I understand basketball isn't a 1v1 game, so I don't place a large onus on 1v1 shyt, particularly when guys rarely guard each other. However, when two guys are the anchors of consistently good teams, there has to be some accountability given to how they both perform respective to the stakes and the level of competition (the opponent). I don't need stats to make an argument with LeBron or Kobe, you could watch the games and see who more consistently had the greater impact, and in case you missed it in real time, stats help (not the entirety of the argument, key word "help") put into context what both guys did when playing each other in marquee games...

 

[Dr. Narcisse]

Exactly, It's hard to find more 1 sided head to head match-ups between stars than Lebron vs Kobe.

Bron vs KD before he joined the Warriors (at least in terms of win/loss)

 

[Dr. Narcisse]

Bought my nephew some Brons after he signed, and he said "Why they so heavy?"

So you buying Brons huh. Wait till I tell the fellas about this

 

[Dr. Narcisse]

Stop with the Vince Carter plugs...

You know people can actually find receipts to disprove what you're saying? Like this GW Bron hit on Kobe without a screen:



The reality is they gave each other buckets. Saying Kobe embarrassed LeBron is a half-truth, as when they did guard each other, he was prone to either foul LeBron, get backed down, get blown by, or as evidenced in this one clip, get a j drained in his grill...

Not to mention, picks are part of the sport and on this same highlight you can see Kobe hit a j on Bron with the aid of a pick, so let's not pretend Kobe didn't also benefit from the rules of the sport. Buckets are buckets...

There were times he played good D on Bron, and he got his share of baskets on LeBron as well. The major difference is those two usually played in marquee prime time games, and LeBron played routinely bigger. In their overlapping primes, Kobe shot sub-40% a whopping eight times and got 25% of his points at the foul line. You're a competent basketball mind, if a guy shoots 42% overall, in prime time games he plays you, with 25% of his total points coming at the line, what does that tell you?

For me, I understand basketball isn't a 1v1 game, so I don't place a large onus on 1v1 shyt, particularly when guys rarely guard each other. However, when two guys are the anchors of consistently good teams, there has to be some accountability given to how they both perform respective to the stakes and the level of competition (the opponent). I don't need stats to make an argument with LeBron or Kobe, you could watch the games and see who more consistently had the greater impact, and in case you missed it in real time, stats help (not the entirety of the argument, key word "help") put into context what both guys did when playing each other in marquee games...

You wanna know whats crazy tho?

Kobe passed it to Walton at the end. I dont ever remember there being SO much news about passing the ball late in the game until recently.