I hear you. I didn't hear much placing Brees over Peyton hypothesizing, but I hear you. One more Super Bowl win wouldn't have elevated him over Manning who we saw them in real time overlap careers for 15 years... What I have been hearing for several years is this strong push to throw Rodgers over everybody and thats outta bounds. Similarly to what I just said about Brees, if Rodgers gets to or wins the Super Bowl this year, he is closer to Manning but not better yet. I really don't get this whole "best thrower of the football" shyt with Rodgers thats been on for a whole decade, I never have. I was saving this for another thread but its relevant in the context of this one, and its identical to the push of Mahomes as the greatest ever after only 3-4 years... When I'm comparing All-Timers in any sport, I start from the same place: did they play with each other, meaning in the same era? Manning and Rodgers overlapped careers for 8 years (2008 to 2015). 8 years isnt a small sample size, and its easy for folks to forget shyt with time, but literally the only years you can say Rodgers was better than Manning was 2011 (Manning out all year, certainly the consensus going into '11 wasnt that Rodgers was better); 2015 (Manning completely, entirely washed in his last year); and maybe 2014, Manning was an MVP candidate neck and neck with Rodgers until the cliff hit him in Wk12 or 13. So take away the injury year, they overlapped 7 years and Rodgers was the better player for the last two years....so right off the bat, while both playing at the same time as each other, Manning was better almost the whole way... Then you look at what they both did in the time they played without each other, thats '98 to '07 Manning compared to '16 to present Rodgers. Its not even comparable, the same way this thread has revealed posters have forgotten about how great Brees was at his peak and prime, they've forgotten about Manning, which is mind-boggling to me. Manning was the most innovative player to play the position ever, literally calling his own plays on the field. People who wanna shyt on him reference his immobility but forego mention of his footwork, which was impeccable. His pre-snap reads and ability to adjust to defenses throughout games is legendary, people weren't doing what Manning was doing... The final point is what Rodgers and Manning have in common, is both play to a lesser level in big games. Rodgers has a chance to somewhat dampen this narrative but winning Sunday would still only give him the same NFCCG record as Favre---->a losing one. And winning the Lombardi would still only be two Super Bowl appearances and victories. This is Manning, struggled in big playoff games, two Super Bowl appearances in 13 years... Rodgers Stans love saying how QB W/L isn't a stat but they've been judging QBs off this since way before Rodgers, and certainly when you're always bad in the championship games its convenient to talk about how the record, which will be 1-4 if he loses, doesn't matter. It isnt like he plays well in these games, he's consistently terrible. That is identical to Manning... That said, Rodgers is pulling closer to Manning than Brees after the year he's had this year, my only point in bringing Rodgers up is he wasn't always greater than Brees and there still isn't a tremendous gap between the two (yet). I can't see Brees getting the post-career Nash bump because the level you'd be bumping him to is Brady/Montana/Manning/Elway level, and I don't think anyone will put him quite there... He did underachieve considering the numbers he put up. Guys put up lesser numbers but were stronger in the clutch, guys played with lesser offensive talent but won more games on a more consistent basis, etc. The gaps of missing postseasons (2002-03, 2007-08, 2014-16) hurts him in relation to his peers too... Saints had a Super Bowl caliber team after the '09 championship for about 3-4 years, and had another the last 3-4 years. It certainly isn't all on him but yes, I 100% agree, he has some accountability in only getting to one Super Bowl in 20 years, considering the teams he had... The other part is the Saints did leave him with crapshoots on D other times, and the Bountygate suspensions really hit them when they had some momentum... Post your Top 10, because most media outlets have him at 5-6 and damn near everyone has him Top 10 by consensus. You big tripping lol...
Brady Montana Elway Marino Starbaugh Favre Rodgers Manning Big Ben Wilson Mahomes (forward thinking motherfukker)
Brees is a transformational quarterback. He shattered the myth that you had to be 6'5 to play the position at the highest levels. In a note of irony, many African American quarterbacks have benefitted because of this. Throughout, the history of the game so many black QBs have had to switch positions, or go undrafted because of their height. Additionally, the Aints were the laughing stock of the league for decades. Brees made them a respectable team. Yeah, it would have been nice if he won more Super Bowls, but decades of 4-12 and 5-11 seasons were a bytch.
Bingo! Recency bias got people forgetting we wasn't shyt before Payton and Brees lol. It's crazy to me how this generation of fans will always think of the Saints as one of the top organizations when just 20 years ago we were Browns/Lions/Bills status. Brees may have one ring but that one ring was in NEW ORLEANS. Brees one ring in NOLA >>>>>> Steve Young one ring in SF/Favre one ring in GB, etc. It'd be the equivalent of if Baker could ever bring the Browns a Super Bowl or Allen bring the Bills one. It puts you on legend status no matter what. And then if you follow that up with elite years? Yeah, you're easily a HOF'er and all-timer.
Terrible list lmao... Starting with Mahomes, you can't just "project" All-Time status onto muhfukkas, if he gets an Alex Smith injury next year and is never the same, we giving him All-Time status off 3 years? Come on, g! You got muhfukkas all outta position, you got Staubach in your Top 5, a guy who was a starter for only 8 years, when there's clearly more than 5 guys who started more than 8 years with a greater list of accomplishments. I'm a Ben Stan, but he probably isn't Top 10. Elway #2? You got Manning at fukking #8 haha... I appreciate you at least qualifying yourself but Brees is a Top 10 lock and you can definitely argue him as Top 5 (though I'd have him JUST outside Top 5, probably 6, no lower than 7)... The "big QB" thing was a new thing anyway, relative to NFL history, because Warner, Baugh, Young, Rodgers, Favre and Montana were only 6'2, Tarkenton was only 6', Starr, Graham, and Johnny U were only 6'1, these are all All-Time QBs. The "big, burly" QB thing was a product if the 80s with Elway and Marino exploding into The League and for a quarter century everyone was looking for the Elway/Marino archetype; NFL was never really a "you gotta be a big QB to succeed" league abd its great Brees helped kick the door back the other way to where guys are graded more for talent than size... Let's hear why... I don't necessarily mind Elway over Brees, but he's Top 2 to you???
Terrell Davis is in the Hall of Fame off 4 years of production If you wanna crown Mahomes right now, feel free
Rodgers is 5th all time best QB in playoff history, thats why. U just taking a small sample where his teams were out matched and saying Rodgers plays bad in the playoffs. Now he has not played well in the NFC ship game, ill give u that. But he is far from bad in the playoffs. And he definitely is not as bad as Manning was in the playoffs Rodgers has 100.4 QB rating in the playoffs. Manning has an 87.4
He's a halfback and their careers tend to be shorter. QBs tend to be longer so you are judged off the position... I really, really dislike how Warner shifted the paradigm of HOF status. He had a max of 5 elite years in a 12-year career, so he lowered the bar. Being it is what is, i want 5 elite Mahomes years first before I even entertain where he enters All-Time discussion, so far he's in 3 elite years... Mahomes is just the new Marino, Favre, Manning, Rodgers, four guys who people said the same shyt about and four guys are 4-4 in Super Bowls. I guarantee his career doesn't result in the highest level of success people are expecting because none of these guys did...
If Mahomes is healthy for Sunday and they beat the Bills then wins the SB, I don't see how you deny him, two SB wins, one SB MVP(likely two), one NFL MVP, multiple All-Pro years. I think you're kind of proving the point of all time greatness, if you look at the above resume for Mahomes and say that's a disappointment, it shows how great the player is. Is Mahomes supposed to win 5 SBs?
I dunno what that nikka expectations are for a QB but even with one ring u can be called the GOAT. Thats why its fukking retarded how people judge QBs off of rings. Aint nobody taking Eli or Ben over Marino because of their precious rings
First of all I've only said Rodgers is bad in the NFCCG, not entire playoffs... Second, we're in an era where everyone's passer rating is higher due to increased offensive rules and production that limits defensive impact. The Top 10 playoff passer ratings ever all played post-00 besides Starr and Montana, and everyone besides those two and Warner played their postseasons post-10. So his 5th highest passer rating isn't saying he the 5th best playoff performer ever, the same way his highest regular season passer rating ever doesn't make him the greatest QB ever... I like passer rating too but it can be overvalued in the current era, gotta use more to evaluate guys properly... That said Rodgers is better than Manning in the playoffs but the consistency of lower play in the championship game is comparable to Manning in the playoffs, its like Rodgers hits a wall in the Final Four. Might change now that he gets one at home... Because he's only at 3 seasons. Brady won two Super Bowls in his first three years too. Marino was an MVP in Y2, too. Manning was a 2x All-Pro after 3 seasons, too. Nothing Mahomes is doing is unprecedented nor is it enough to lock him into GOAT discussions after 3 years when guys sustained top level production 3-5x as long... It aint just the rings, how many times have I said this? Just like it isn't all the stats.. Its the entire body of work. Rodgers may not even be the best QB in the history of his franchise... Aint nobody the GOAT with one ring lol. The consensus Top 4 is generally Brady, Montana, Manning, Elway, all those guys have a minimum of two, played in a minimum of 4 Super Bowls, and have a winning conference championship game record (Manning 4-1, Elway 5-1, Montana 4-3, Brady 9-4). There is a standard here, you can't be the GOAT with one ring because that means you not even challenging for championships on a consistent basis... Also your boy is not viewed in the same light as a crunch time assassin the way Brady, Montana, Elway were, and he does NOT play well on the road. Wanna talk about his road record in both regular season and playoffs?
MVP, 2X Super Bowl win, SB MVP from a starting QB - that's a 1 of 1 thing. All of those guys did the above, none of em did em together.
