Let's Have the Hardest Debate...

[Mr.Logic]

Let me guess, this is black vs white right? Let's just say it is.

Blacks are more athletic based on genetics.

Whites and Asians are considered more intelligent based on advantage and quantity. Let's use STEM as an example.

If black people was on equal footing in terms of when we entered STEM academics as a race, those "statistics" would be much different. Instead, slavery and Jim Crow caused blacks to fall centuries behind on education something fierce while STEM academics was ingrained into the minds of whites and Asians and passed down generation to generation. Putting glass ceilings on blacks, withholding education opportunities from them which was passed down generation to generation and putting them in environments that caused them to turn against each other will lower "intelligence" and cause a severe inaccuracy of these so called statistics.

(1) The same way purple people could be more intelligent based on genetics...The brain is the organ of intelligence...It is affected by the same factors that influence other organs...

(2) Black People built the pyramids, they were the first to develop spoken and written language, music, art and tools...Black Egyptians taught the Greeks...Black Ethiopians were travelling scholars and etc...

So, you mean to state a couple of hundred of years of slavery reversed thousands of years of brain development?

Maybe White People are just genetically equipped with something that made them push the boundaries of knowledge when they were exposed to it...The same way Blacks took over American Football once they were exposed to it...

Maybe these 2 groups had something genetic that allowed them to excel once they were exposed to a new way....Why is it so hard to accept this?

The same way that pythons took over Florida as soon as they were exposed to that environment...The pythons OBVIOUSLY have a genetic make up that makes Florida a thriving environment for them...In comparison to Pandas which quickly die if they are not coddled in a new environment...

You bring pythons to Florida, they thrive...You bring Pandas to Florida, they probably die...Maybe it is because of captivity, maybe it is because of genetics, but it could also be because of both...

 

[SeveroDrgnfli]

Sports are physical they require certain conditioning

This and this.

Because artificial selection based on physical attributes has occured throughout the history of Earth. It happened with the Jews, with slavery all over the world, it's happening now. The problem with attempting to exterminate certain populations of people is that the ones who do survive are... survivors.

Hear, hear!

 

[BaldingSoHard]

Intelligence isn't genetic nor is it hereditary, it comes down to environment.

Therefore, this idea that some races can be naturally "smarter" is ridiculous.

IQ is entirely environmental, variables like nutrition and wealth also have a great effect on scores

racial intelligence is pseudoscience

Eh I would say it's not entirely environmental but environment plays a HUGE role, moreso than most other factors in life.

 

[Mr.Logic]

Intelligence isn't genetic nor is it hereditary, it comes down to environment.

Therefore, this idea that some races can be naturally "smarter" is ridiculous.

IQ is entirely environmental, variables like nutrition and wealth also have a great effect on scores

racial intelligence is pseudoscience

How do we know this? Do you have a scientific paper that controlled for the environment and concluded that all classifications of people are of the same intelligence?

How can people say that people have certain genes that gives them fast twitch muscles, but at the same time be unwillingly to accept that certain genetics can make a certain people process abstract information better than others...

Athleticism is a function of muscle physiology which has a genetic and environmental component, so how can anybody deny the probability that intelligence could be a function of neurological physiology which has genetic and environmental components...

 

[Guile]

Define intelligence.

 

[Mr.Logic]

Eh I would say it's not entirely environmental but environment plays a HUGE role, moreso than most other factors in life.

The environment does play a big in almost everything, but so do genetics...Your genetics can enable you to change your environment, and your environment can also change your genetics...

 

[BocaRear]

Eh I would say it's not entirely environmental but environment plays a HUGE role, moreso than most other factors in life.

Then what other factors affect intelligence?

It's environmental, if you took the son of a PhD and raised them in that home then they'll probably also be intelligent

However if you took that same son and raised him in a poor neighbourhood then you'll probably have a less intelligent child

I'm not saying that all poor people are dumb but if you're poorer you're more likely to be less intelligent,

That's why a lot of poor people stay poor, it's a cycle where being poor makes you dumb and being dumb often makes you poor. This is intentional to maintain a status quo

Every human being provided they don't have any disabilities is capable of being "intelligent"

 

[Hope]

Intelligence can be measured in a variety of ways. Don't believe any group is more athletic.

Who you see in American sports on tv goes deeper that being genetically gifted. I know very talented people who didn't go to big schools, and they never made it. Also, how much are you willing to sacrifice, practice, and learn?

 

[Mr.Logic]

Define intelligence.

The ability to adapt, compete and thrive in any given environment (biological and social)

 

[BaldingSoHard]

How do we know this? Do you have a scientific paper that controlled for the environment and concluded that all classifications of people are of the same intelligence?

How can people say that people have certain genes that gives them fast twitch muscles, but at the same time be unwillingly to accept that certain genetics can make a certain people process abstract information better than others...

Athleticism is a function of muscle physiology which has a genetic and environmental component, so how can anybody deny the probability that intelligence could be a function of neurological physiology which has genetic and environmental components...

I noticed you glossed over my entire post because you're not really looking for an answer, you're just trying to stir a pot.

So I'll re-iterate.

Slavery helped to weed out some of the "weak" physical genetic traits in black Americans, hence higher density muscle fiber, quick-twitch, all that shyt.

No such selection event (natural or artificial) has ever occurred based on intelligence, so unless there was a random mutation that gave an Asian man "super-brain" and that Asian man and all his Asian decedents strictly bred with other Asians, there's nothing within our understanding of evolutionary biology to suggest that Asians are genetically predisposed to higher intelligence than anyone else. There are, however, mountains of evidence to suggest that as @BocaRear pointed out, environment, nutrition, education achieved by your progenitors, etc... can play a very large role in one's IQ.

 

[BaldingSoHard]

Then what other factors affect intelligence?

It's environmental, if you took the son of a PhD and raised them in that home then they'll probably also be intelligent

However if you took that same son and raised him in a poor neighbourhood then you'll probably have a less intelligent child

I'm not saying that all poor people are dumb but if you're poorer you're more likely to be less intelligent,

That's why a lot of poor people stay poor, it's a cycle where being poor makes you dumb and being dumb often makes you poor. This is intentional to maintain a status quo

Every human being provided they don't have any disabilities is capable of being "intelligent"

That's true.

But your disabilities example is a good one for the counterpoint.

The child of two people with Down's syndrome is unlikely to be very smart, genetically. And no amount of privilege is going to change that.

I think we agree it's both nature and nurture.

We also agree that for normal, healthy non-disabled people, environment is more important than genetics for mental capacity.

 

[TooLazyToMakeUp1]

Sports and athletics is pretty much a level playing field

The access to quality education is not

 

[#SOG_soldier]

Because artificial selection based on physical attributes has occured throughout the history of Earth. It happened with the Jews, with slavery all over the world, it's happening now. The problem with attempting to exterminate certain populations of people is that the ones who do survive are... survivors. That is, if you apply the theory of natural selection to artificial selection, the same truths will hold... the strongest of us survive. So in some ways, we have those a$$hole slave owners to thank for black American's physical superiority. The "weak" slaves died off early, leaving the stronger / hardier bloodlines to procreate.

No such event has ever occurred based on mental attributes. Never has a dominant sociopolitical power said, "____ race is too smart, we should attempt to exterminate them." and subsequently failed. There has been no natural or artificial selection criteria to cull the dumb.

This is evolution 101.

Yup Chris Rock broke it down in his standup. Lebron is the descentant of super slaves

 

[Worthless Loser]

(1) The same way purple people could be more intelligent based on genetics...The brain is the organ of intelligence...It is affected by the same factors that influence other organs...

(2) Black People built the pyramids, they were the first to develop spoken and written language, music, art and tools...Black Egyptians taught the Greeks...Black Ethiopians were travelling scholars and etc...

So, you mean to state a couple of hundred of years of slavery reversed thousands of years of brain development?

Maybe White People are just genetically equipped with something that made them push the boundaries of knowledge when they were exposed to it...The same way Blacks took over American Football once they were exposed to it...

Maybe these 2 groups had something genetic that allowed them to excel once they were exposed to a new way....Why is it so hard to accept this?

The same way that pythons took over Florida as soon as they were exposed to that environment...The pythons OBVIOUSLY have a genetic make up that makes Florida a thriving environment for them...In comparison to Pandas which quickly die if they are not coddled in a new environment...

You bring pythons to Florida, they thrive...You bring Pandas to Florida, they probably die...Maybe it is because of captivity, maybe it is because of genetics, but it could also be because of both...

Yes. Because the blacks that were groomed during slavery were not even allowed to know how to read.

Slaves Are Prohibited to Read and Write by Law

Slavemasters understood that their social control of the slaves could not be based solely on physical coercion. Knowledge was power, and virtually all slave codes established in the United States set restrictions making it illegal to teach slaves to read or write. The statute below, passed by the state of North Carolina in 1830—1831, was fairly typical.

Slaves Are Prohibited to Read and Write by Law | North Carolina Law (1830-31)

Fearing that black literacy would prove a threat to the slave system -- which relied on slaves' dependence on masters -- whites in many colonies instituted laws forbidding slaves to learn to read or write and making it a crime for others to teach them.

Slavery and the Making of America . The Slave Experience: Education, Arts, & Culture | PBS

Now, that was the generation before Jim Crow. Let's see what happened after slavery was "over" and we immediately went into the Jim Crow era.

Why Education for African American Children Was Inferior

• Southern schools were racially segregated. Blacks and whites had to attend different schools. The separate school systems were not equal. Schools for white children received more public money.

• Fewer African Americans were enrolled in school. Black children were often pulled out school because they were needed on the farm. Many of their parents were sharecroppers. To plant and harvest enough crops, sharecroppers’ children had to work alongside their parents.

• Even if they weren’t needed on the farm, the white owner of their farm might pull black children out if he decided they were needed for work. Or he might simply believe that African American children did not deserve an education.

• There were not as many public schools available for blacks. If a town did not have enough money for two separate schools, they built only one school – for white children. This was especially true in the rural towns, because most rural towns had little money.

• City school systems had more money than rural ones. However, at that time in the South, most African Americans lived in rural areas, on farms. On the other hand, many white children lived in cities and could attend well-funded city schools. In rural areas, schools for both black and white children were scheduled around the cotton growing season. These schools were open fewer days than city schools. As a result, many black children went to school only two or three months out of the year.

• Among the African Americans who did attend school, most were in the fourth grade or lower. Many left school after fourth grade. Therefore it would be a long time before there would be a large number of blacks going to college.

• http://abhmuseum.org/education-for-blacks-in-the-jim-crow-south/

Jim Crow schools—which taught their students only those skills needed for agricultural work and domestic service—fit the needs of the white economy and society. Booker T. Washington reflected the reality of the situation facing southern blacks when he said in 1915 that "white men will vote funds for Negro education just in proportion to their belief in the value of that education." The only value to a white landowner in educating black children lay in their ability to pick cotton or wash laundry. Any education beyond the rudiments of literacy and figuring would not only be wasted on them, but it might encourage them to seek higher education, which would make them unfit for working on white-owned farms and in white homes.

Jim Crow's Schools

Do you get it now?

 

[TL15]

Here is the reason why that assumption cannot be made.

There is no true platform where pure "intelligence" can manifest. In any situation where intelligence is a factor (politics, education, careers, etc.) intelligence is not the pure determinant. There aren't more "white bankers" because banking is in their blood and genes, there may be more "white bankers" because they are connected, more pushed toward that goal etc. There are many variables of success.

If you look at the sciences, there is nothing inherent that says "you need to be this 'smart' to be a scientist". I am not saying that the people aren't intelligent, but often times hard work can get you much further academically than it can athletically.

There is no "basketball for brains" where one race purely dominates. There is no intelligence bowl where we can actually see people of all races trying to succeed and one race mainly dominating like the NBA or NFL or track and field.

When you look at physical attributes, they manifest. You can't deny that a 7 foot athletic 15 year old is on the fast track to the NBA. It shows right in front of you. That 7 foot athletic kid is going to beat his peers 10/10 times no matter how hard they work. That is not the case in academia.

Until there is a way to significantly say "a certain race has a higher capacity to learn based on these tangible differences" there are too many variables with the current ways that intelligence or "smarts" are measured. There is no "eye test" or no way to say "wow Race A is more intelligent than Race B" the same way that you can make the distinction of athleticism.