Broke Wave
The GOAT
The minimum wage wont solve all that... It will help. Like I said, it should be in conjunction with other things.
If minimum wages should be raised, then to what metric? What number? Why is your number better than 100 an hr?
Living wage advocates, how are restaruant owners supposed to deal with being squeezed like this?
- Thread starter Camile.Bidan
- Start date
If minimum wages should be raised, then to what metric? What number? Why is your number better than 100 an hr?
@Donald J. Trump thoughts?
JahFocus CS
Get It How You Get It
This thread shows why capitalism is a dead end for the working class.
For what's probably the 20th time, how will it help? My main concerns for the working class are
- the inability to accumulate wealth
- expensive basic COL items (healthcare, housing, education/job training)
- lack of career options and progression
- lack of political power vs corporations
If MW should come with other things this is the first time I'm hearing this from you. What other things? And it's clear you feel MW, top end tax hikes and general redistribution are the best (if not only) ways forward. How will redistribution address any of the issues I listed?
No I don't have a number because while I think a MW raise is worth discussing it's not really in my top 10. Again raising MW seems to be a priority to you though, so what is your number? Please don't tell me you've been trying to take my head off all this time and you don't even have a number. How'd you arrive at it and how will it solve any of the issues I listed?
All absolute theories are dead ends for everybody. Real world requires a balance of different things, including capitalism AND socialism, in a way that makes sense for everybody.
JahFocus CS
Get It How You Get It
I am not concerned with the ruling class, balancing their interests, and looking for ways for them to continue ruling society and exploiting 95%+ of the world's population and resources. Just as I would not be concerned with the interests of feudal lords, slaveholders, the aristocracy/nobility, etc., or looking for reforms under those systems "in a way that makes sense for everybody."
There's no "balance" between capitalism and socialism unless you were talking about something like converting the entire economy to worker-owned and worker-managed enterprises but retaining commodity production and the market, or talking about something like mutualism. And even those are debatable, a lot of people would say "that's just capitalism" (although I wouldn't necessarily agree with those assessments... but these are examples of actual "mixed" systems).
Food stamps are not socialism.
Minimum wages are not socialism.
etc.
Here's the main problem it would solve.
Fathers could earn enough on a regular full-time job that mothers could stay home with the kids.
Single mothers could earn enough on one job that they don't have to work multiple jobs or long hours.
My dad was raising us on $9-11/hour back in the late 1980s and early 1990s, when the minimum wage was $4.25, so I'm guessing that's about equivalent to $15/hour today. With that he was paying off a cheap mortgage in a low-cost area and we were never below the poverty line. Sure, we didn't have extra shyt and money was always tight, but we made it. School wasn't shyt, but I graduated with great grades and got into college. When us kids got old enough to take care of ourselves, my mom got a job herself and started working part-time, then eventually full time. My dad eventually got a promotion and was able to retire just fine. My mom will retire soon, having worked full-time for 20 years, and they're doing quite well. All three kids went to college - my parents couldn't really help much with that, but we got scholarships and financial aid packages are fine in that area.
My dad was able to make enough for the whole family and my mom could stay home. That's a BIG difference in life. If every head-of-household had a stable income and every young kid had a mom at home, 1/2 of the community's problems are getting solved there. Wages not being high enough to support a family is one of the reasons that ain't happening.
A living wage doesn't solve every fukking problem in the world. But it doesn't have to. We're not saying that everyone will be stuck on a living wage or on one income their entire fukking lives. But there needs to be a baseline that people can get through that early family-rearing stage on their own, then they have another couple decades to worry about retirement with.
You realize that a quarter of income for someone making $48K and a quarter of income for someone making $15K are different things?
Take a quarter off of $48K, you still have $36K left to take care of your other needs. Take a quarter off of $15K and you only have $11K left. That's a big difference.
Can you find one example of someone buying a new house right now on minimum wage income? Like, one example in the entire fukking country?
Broke Wave
The GOAT
Bruh... Im not ignoring this post, ill address it... But if you think the minimum wage isnt even worth addressing, nor are u willing to come with a proper number or solution... Why even post here? You care about the working class who make Mw but u dont care about the mw issue. U dont wanna raise it or lower it. Regardless, people will still be making mw and it wont be enough
88m3
Fast Money & Foreign Objects
Having money doesn't mean you will use it to pay down debts. Especially without financial literacy. If fixing people's credit is the goal why don't we just pay off people's debts? Seems like a more direct way to solve THAT problem.
You asked if a raise in MW would fix bad credit, bad debts, and low/no savings. I said no and explained why. Where is the red herring? If anyone threw out a "more pay fixes credit" red herring it was @88m3, who you just cosigned
how gauche...
The point is that the MW doesn't ever address poverty and you can't keep raising it when changing the real root of wage stagnation is harder to address. It's the valve on a complex set of pipes instead of re-doing the plumbingI'm recently finding that it's not possible to have a conversation about the minimum wage with people. There's been a great job done on the collective American psyche to the point where people are content with arguing against their own interests, even on the Coli. Let's get started.
1. "But businesses will close down if the minimum wage is raised." And? “No business which depends for existence on paying less than living wages to its workers has any right to continue in this country.” That's a quote from FDR, who passed the initial minimum wage back in 1938. And when he said a living wage, he didn't mean living in a box eating a can of tuna, he meant a decent living. If a business can't afford that, then they are a net negative to our society. And when they fall, another will fulfill the needs of the marketplace. That's how capitalism goes.
2. "If the minimum wage is increased, workers will be fired." There's no statistical evidence linking a raise in the minimum wage and unemployment, but I'll entertain the argument. Do you really think Wal-Mart is keeping on more staff than they have to out of generosity? You really think that small business is paying staff to do nothing all day? Businesses already keep the exact amount of workers they need to operate, no more, no less. A raise in the minimum wage is not going to change the bare amount of workers necessary to keep a business running. And if a company wants to dip below that and let their customer experience suffer, well they probably wont be around for long.
3. "Fast food workers will be replaced by workers." Really? This is going to happen irregardless of the minimum wage. The day it becomes more cost-efficient to have automation in storefronts is the day it will happen. We're talking about companies who exist to pursue higher profits. Whatever accomplishes that goal is in play, including replacing human workers. Automation is coming either way. This is a posturing technique to stall against companies paying a living wage.
4. "But I went to college for xyz number of years, why does a burger flipper get to make more than me?" Let me tell you a secret. Most Americans aren't getting paid what they should. Gasp, I know. If one personally thinks burger flipping is so easy, that's when they go to your boss and tell him to give you a raise or you're leaving for a less difficult job. It's called having leverage. If an employee possesses skills which are valuable, those skills will continue to hold value. As a matter of fact, workers with distinguished skills will be more valuable due to their scarcity, and the market would correct itself in terms of how that translates in a monetary form.
5. "Such and such country doesn't have a minimum wage, why should we!" Some countries don't have a minimum wage and function well because they are smart enough to have collective healthcare, cheap education, a more even distribution of wealth, and housing that isn't out of control. Until America chooses to adopt all of these things, it's necessary to make up the difference in a minimum wage raise that can address the costs of living in this nation. After all, we are the greatest nation on Earth, no?
There's a lot of other things that I could address, but what's the use. Most people don't even care to look at the situation objectively and evaluate what's best for society long term. We're fukked until then.
Or they could find better jobs?
I mean if you are gonna go there, having money may not also mean having money, maybe people will simply set their money on fire instead of conventional use 
like you know paying bills
...which you know...debt could..just maybe...be classified as a bill,....... just maybe though
What's a living wage?