Lord Jamar on Why Rakim Isn't Viewed the Same as Nas
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African Peasant
Veteran
lyricism is for the MC.
tHE mc does not have credit for the beat; he doesn't make it. Lyricism is a part of the job of the MC. Hpi-Hop is not house music where the beat is EVERYTHING.
You can't judge an MC on his beat is using, you judge him on his ability on the mic : what he says and how he says it.
That's why people love Prodigy more than Havoc.
African Peasant
Veteran
Yep. That hiatus killed his career.
It's a shame cause, unlike many of the late 80's Mc's, Rakim had the ability to shine in the mid_90's.
Stuff like these would have made a killing :
African Peasant
Veteran
Yep.
Dope song...man Rakim should have signed to bad boy...Diddy knew how to get you on radio and TV....RA also seemed like the person who didn't like to really push their image and market themselves either
They're (likely) just busier focusing on their own art and aren't paying attention to the art of others like fans do.
IllmaticDelta
Veteran
Nas went further out than rakim, he didn't just stay in "bars" mode like Rakim. Nas went from bars mode to storytelling/concepts to very personal to political/conscious etc... Now, this isn't to say Rakim never touched on those same bases but he never did it to the same level and as prolifically as Nas. The other thing is that nas style isn't simply just rakim-based. He even has Slick Rick and G Rap element's that fans of rap that might not like Rakim, gravitate to go along with that organic QB style.
The beat is not everything in hip hop but it's at least 60% of what makes a song. And we absolutely give emcees credit for the beats they use. We've had this convo before. Musical ear is HUGE. A lot of great rappers produce/co-produce their own beats or are in the room when the beats are being made or select the samples, so they definitely have a say in the beat.
People love Prodigy more than Havoc because Prodigy has a more captivating voice and says more captivating shyt. But at the end of the day, Prodigy rocked on many of the same stellar beats that Havoc did. So Prodigy was still rapping on some of the best beats in hip hop history. That's a big reason why he sounded incredible. If he was rapping on some weak shyt you would've never heard of him.
A rapper is only as good as the production behind him. Why pretend otherwise?
African Peasant
Veteran
Not true.
If it was true, Prodigy and Havoc would be seen as equal, since they were rapping on the same beats.
Dr Dre rapped on "elite beats" but nobody thinks of him as an elite MC.
The value of an MC is not totally dependent on the beat.
That's terrible logic.Obviously one rapper can do better on the same beat than another rapper. But the point is.... a great beat has to exist in the first place for people to give a fukk.
You're completely missing the point and stretching my point to cover your gaps in logic.
I'm well aware that there is more to an MC than the beat. What I'm trying to tell you, that is super obvious, is that a great beat is a massive part of what an emcee brings to the table. He/she doesn't have to make the beat, but he/she definitely has to bring it.
AlfredTheButler
Pro
African Peasant
Veteran
Obviously one rapper can do better on the same beat than another rapper. But the point is.... a great beat has to exist in the first place for people to give a fukk.
You're completely missing the point and stretching my point to cover your gaps in logic.
I'm well aware that there is more to an MC than the beat. What I'm trying to tell you, that is super obvious, is that a great beat is a massive part of what an emcee brings to the table. He/she doesn't have to make the beat, but he/she definitely has to bring it.
No, a great beat is what a producer bring to the table. The MC has to ride correctly on that beat.
You clearly said "A rapper is only as good as the production behind him." That's not true.
A good hip-hp song is based on two ingredients : a good rapper and a good beat.
A good beat is not enough. If that was the case, Diddy and Dre will be among the GOAT.
We just talked about this, and I told you that producing is not as solitary as you think. The emcee is gonna be involved in some way. And if you look through out hip hop history, dudes like Slick Rick and Kane were making their own beats, rhyming on them, and bringing them to Marley to touch up. So this idea that goat-level rappers just show up and rhyme on any old beat that's handed to them is silly and dated. Even if they have nothing to do with the beat creation whatsoever, the MC still needs to put his/her soul into the beat and give it meaning to the audience. Beats inspire flows and rhymes 99% of the time. Beat selection is HUGE for the success of a rapper.
How much clearer can I be with this?
How would they be goat rappers when they're not good rappers to begin with?!
But what's hilarious is that you're proving my point. Dre and Diddy have GOAT level songs despite being mediocre ass rappers. "Nuthin But A G Thang", "All About the Benjamins" simply because the beats are goat. Meanwhile, the opposite is simply not true. There are no GOAT level songs with great rappers and mediocre ass beats.
Are you gonna keep deliberately trying to miss my point? And we're talking some 1+1=2 shyt. I'm getting bored
The War Report
NewNewYork
I don't know why Nas keeps getting compared to Rakim, he's more G Rap than Rakim.