More Jobs Went To Immigrants Than Native-Born Americans Over Past 14 Years

[theworldismine13]

Bryan Caplan and Steven Camarota (one of the authors of the paper) discussing the effects of immigration on labor from a year ago

http://live.huffingtonpost.com/r/segment/open-borders-immigration-poverty/517aa4a078c90a08c500032e

dude addressed this in this lecture
http://www.thecoli.com/threads/immigration-economics.225111/#post-8930557

 

[HideoKojima]

not sure if you're serious....

I misread

 

[¯\_(ツ)_/¯]

i dont know what your point is

I was kinda all over the place with that post.

Basically to just say that low-skilled/unskilled immigrants are pushing all other native low skilled/unskilled workers out of the job market is myopic. The situation is not as black or white as it seems.

 

[theworldismine13]

I was kinda all over the place with that post.

Basically to just say that low-skilled/unskilled immigrants are pushing all other native low skilled/unskilled workers out of the job market is myopic. The situation is not as black or white as it seems.

its not myopic, its the truth, low skilled immigrants do displace low skilled natives

and on the other hand immigrants do help the economy by business having access to cheaper workers which means more profits and helps high skilled workers stay on top

im fully aware of the whole picture

the question is a matter of your priorities, if you think the increased profits and economic benefits are worth displacing some low skilled workers then thats you, im not you,

i think immigration should be tightly controlled, im not anti immigrant, im just against illegal immigration and against mass migration because they hurt low skilled workers, i dont really care how much it helps corporate profits because low skilled workers are more important than profits or you wanting pay 10 bucks for something that is worth 11 bucks, i put the interests of my fellow low skilled citizens ahead of the citizens of another country and ahead of corporations, im just weird like that

 

[88m3]

I hope immigrants take all of your jobs.

We need to have open borders.

 

[¯\_(ツ)_/¯]

its not myopic, its the truth, low skilled immigrants do displace low skilled natives

For various reasons. Some of those reasons are obvious, other reasons not as obvious as you think.

and on the other hand immigrants do help the economy by business having access to cheaper workers which means more profits and helps high skilled workers stay on top

Also:
Lower cost for consumer goods
Increase in economic productivity

the question is a matter of your priorities, if you think the increased profits and economic benefits are worth displacing some low skilled workers then thats you, im not you

The problem is your situating the issue as a "this" or "that" scenario. It's the same as the "you're either with America or against it" argument. What if I support economic benefits PLUS increasing opportunities for unskilled working natives to excel as high-skilled workers?

i think immigration should be tightly controlled, im not anti immigrant, im just against illegal immigration and against mass migration because they hurt low skilled workers,

I think immigration should be reasonably controlled as well but for various reasons. But evidence and research indicate that there is extremely little competition between native workers and immigrant workers.

i dont really care how much it helps corporate profits because low skilled workers are more important than profits or you wanting pay 10 bucks for something that is worth 11 bucks, i put the interests of my fellow low skilled citizens ahead of the citizens of another country and ahead of corporations, im just weird like that

A corporation's main goal is to make profit so they will always find a way to earn it. But what research has shown that immigrants have been or has been pushing native unskilled workers out of the work force? Also, who's to say these companies will drastically alter their operations to stay in business if they are not able to rely on immigrants to do the work that natives won't?

 

[theworldismine13]

For various reasons. Some of those reasons are obvious, other reasons not as obvious as you think.

regardless of the reason it does happen

Also:
Lower cost for consumer goods
Increase in economic productivity

it definitely lowers costs of consumer goods

the increase in economic productivity depends on what type of worker the immigrants is, low skilled workers do not increase productivity, high skilled immigrants do

The problem is your situating the issue as a "this" or "that" scenario. It's the same as the "you're either with America or against it" argument. What if I support economic benefits PLUS increasing opportunities for unskilled working natives to excel as high-skilled workers?

i dont know what that means that you support, i support feeding all the hungry children of the world, you can support anything you want

my point is that studies show low skilled immigration lowers wages and displaces low skilled native workers, it dosnt matter what you support, that is what studies show

and you already posted that if you can pay somebody lower wages you would and its not your problem if the native worker demands more money, so yo already exposed what you think about people that get displaced by low skilled labor, you think its a good thing

I think immigration should be reasonably controlled as well but for various reasons.

if you agree that immigration should be controlled then we agree

But evidence and research indicate that there is extremely little competition between native workers and immigrant workers.

actually no it doesnt, there is little competition if there is little immigration

and again you just exposed yourself that you would pay 10 dollars and lower wages if you could, and that the native workers are lazy, so your own example shows that there is competition

A corporation's main goal is to make profit so they will always find a way to earn it. But what research has shown that immigrants have been or has been pushing native unskilled workers out of the work force? Also, who's to say these companies will drastically alter their operations to stay in business if they are not able to rely on immigrants to do the work that natives won't?

pretty much every study has shown that immigrants displace and lower wages for low skilled workers, the reason why people get away with saying it doesnt is that they ignore or downplay the impact on low skilled workers and emphasize the increase in the size of the overall economy and the fact that it does help high skilled workers that are not competing with immigrants

in other words, overall immigrants have little impact, but when you break it down by skill level the lower skilled workers get screwed

 

[thekingsmen]

Sadly Poor, uneducated and easily fooled white folks are being pushed this agenda by the Rich White Folk that immigrants are the enemy of America and are ruining America's perfect world. White Folks agreed to sign NAFTA into law creating havoc on the nation's work force.

 

[edzyy]

4 people splitting rent in a one bed room apartment??? All of 'em making 80k? What are they saving money for?

Send back home.

Immigrants find employment fast since they take ANYTHING

For example, your average NYC Mexican will work 50 hour weeks for $250 bucks under the table

They also have 7-10 people in a 2 bedroom...sometimes more

You figure at least 8 of those people are bringing home that $250 a week CASH

$8000 a month in cash + whatever "benefits" they're getting from the city.

They do well..very well...so well that they're able to send a bulk of that cash back to Mexico.

I went to HS with Mexican kids that shared apartments with 12 others & these household were bringing in at least 10 grand a month in straight cash.

 

[godkiller]

Immigrants regardless of occupation usually work for cheaper. There a hospitals in the US that hire immigrant nurses and doctors because they work for lower wages and aren't as greedy.

What is the solution, close the borders? Who will fill our STEM jobs and labor intensive jobs with little pay and benefits?

Yeah, the solution is to close the fukking borders because American jobs are going to foreigners. If the STEM jobs can't get people, they'll raise their wages and get people. America will only go into a downward spiral if it keeps giving people's jobs to foreigners.

 

[godkiller]

They probably got a better work ethic

Well, a person from the 3rd world probably has a better work ethic but what's your point? America can't serve every fukking 3rd worlder. There are fukking BILLIONS of them. It doesn't MATTER if an immigrant has better work ethic. They can't WORK in the USA.

 

[godkiller]

====

=
The problem is your situating the issue as a "this" or "that" scenario. It's the same as the "you're either with America or against it" argument. What if I support economic benefits PLUS increasing opportunities for unskilled working natives to excel as high-skilled workers?

African Americans are largely unskilled. As far as I know, other groups are more skilled. So AAs suffer for immigration. Others groups not so much. Therefore I don't support immigration. That is aill.

I think immigration should be reasonably controlled as well but for various reasons. But evidence and research indicate that there is extremely little competition between native workers and immigrant workers.

This is incorrect. There are anecdotes and studies which imply that there is competition between native workers and immigrants. Black Americans compete for the same jobs Mexicans do.

 

[Serious]

Sadly Poor, uneducated and easily fooled white folks are being pushed this agenda by the Rich White Folk that immigrants are the enemy of America and are ruining America's perfect world. White Folks agreed to sign NAFTA into law creating havoc on the nation's work force.

True but at the same time you're already underestimating the native born poor skilled workers who will be displaced....

It's easier said than done, to assume all native born citizens have successful completed higher education or advanced trade in their lifetime...

 

[theworldismine13]

Sadly Poor, uneducated and easily fooled white folks are being pushed this agenda by the Rich White Folk that immigrants are the enemy of America and are ruining America's perfect world. White Folks agreed to sign NAFTA into law creating havoc on the nation's work force.

That isn't true, rich white people from zuckerberg, murdoch to the Koch brothers to the chamber of commerce are all pushing for so called immigration reform ie flooding the labor force

Inmigration reform is mostly pushed by an incestous relationship between leftists who want more votes because they think the hordes of brown people will vote for them and corporate America that wants cheap labor

 

[¯\_(ツ)_/¯]

regardless of the reason it does happen

But the details in reasons give a more broader perspective:

the increase in economic productivity depends on what type of worker the immigrants is, low skilled workers do not increase productivity, high skilled immigrants do.

Low-skilled immigrants can't be consumers or taxpayers? They don't spend their earnings on the purchase of food, clothing, housing, cars, etc.?

i dont know what that means that you support, i support feeding all the hungry children of the world, you can support anything you want

What does that have to do with the tea in China? I'm talking about supporting both immigrants to fill jobs while ALSO supporting OTHER economic opportunities for native low skilled workers, especially African-Americans. I can support both, you're argument was "I have to either support this or that" when it comes to immigrants working jobs here and natives finding employment as well.

my point is that studies show low skilled immigration lowers wages and displaces low skilled native workers, it dosnt matter what you support, that is what studies show

It does displace SOME native workers but the statistics are relatively minuscule. Overall, you can't "displace" someone that will NOT do what someone else is willing to do.

and you already posted that if you can pay somebody lower wages you would and its not your problem if the native worker demands more money, so yo already exposed what you think about people that get displaced by low skilled labor, you think its a good thing

I will pay more wages for a certain task if I can afford to pay more and I find the increased pay worth it. Some industries and jobs can survive increasing wages to attract workers while others just can't.

actually no it doesnt, there is little competition if there is little immigration. and again you just exposed yourself that you would pay 10 dollars and lower wages if you could, and that the native workers are lazy, so your own example shows that there is competition

Its only "competition" because native workers want more demands from the jobs that the immigrants will take (i.e. higher wages, better protection, etc.). Since the job will not provide these demands most native workers will avoid taking them. Immigrants will work these jobs with little to no complaints. That's not displacing.

Put it like this....if I had a competition where you and another person had to race for a prize for $100 but you felt the race wasn't WORTH winning only $100, but you would race if the prize was more money, while the the other person didn't mind racing to win the $100, has that "displaced" you from competing?

pretty much every study has shown that immigrants displace and lower wages for low skilled workers, the reason why people get away with saying it doesnt is that they ignore or downplay the impact on low skilled workers and emphasize the increase in the size of the overall economy and the fact that it does help high skilled workers that are not competing with immigrants

That's not true, there's much more evidence in other research to suggest its a lot more to it than that.

in other words, overall immigrants have little impact, but when you break it down by skill level the lower skilled workers get screwed

Again, to reiterate, more native low skilled workers do not chase after the same jobs that immigrants go after due to the requirements of the jobs. That's not displacing.