Most of the "ignorant" rappers are more intelligent than the "conscious" ones.

[No_bammer_weed]

No. what I'm saying is that people seem to think that content alone makes good songs.

It doesn't.

It never has. Thats what frustrates backpackers and "purists"

If you want to have a message or send a point...make better music.

Even you talking about 'relating" to something, doesn't matter if the music itself isn't good.

And don't bring up Marvin Gaye or Lennon. AT THAT TIME, that was the extent of all everyone had. Yeah, in retrospect it sounds amazing, but everything you're comparing it to, didn't exist.

I don't even listen to "party" music all the time. I just know not to look down on those that create that sort of content. Thats my point here.

Personally, I'm more liable to listen to house, jazz, and R&B these days. But thats because the music is good, not because they're trying to be something they're not.

How can you say the "music isnt good", unless you get specific? You can say, perhaps, music of substance doesnt have mass appeal, and the reasons for that dont really reflect well on the hip hop fan collective. For every Joe underground head, who rejects mainstream rap --- there are about 10 groupie fans who wont accept any kind of hip hop that has substance in their music, so your argument goes both ways.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

How can you say the "music isnt good", unless you get specific? You can say, perhaps, music of substance doesnt have mass appeal, and the reasons for that dont really reflect well on the hip hop fan collective. For every Joe underground head, who rejects mainstream rap --- there are about 10 groupie fans who wont accept any kind of hip hop that has substance in their music, so your argument goes both ways.

Because most times it ain't...which is why it ain't popular.

I'll be the first to tell you that certain images and topics aren't good for "the masses" or "the black community" ...but more often than not, its just NOT good. It doesn't sound that great. Why can't we talk about that?

You make it sound like people are averse to actual "content"...they're not.

People listen to music before they listen for content.

You think marvin gaye songs are good because of the message? No. Most people don't even get the message. The MUSIC is just incredible. Thats the point.

 

[No_bammer_weed]

Where did I say anything about role models? You do know that you can appreciate certain aspects of a man's strong points while also recognising his faults right? Or is everything just black or white to you?

Despite whatever faults they may have, these two men certainly seem to take pride and do more than enough to hold down their family structure, which is undoubtedly one of the biggest problems in the black community, arguably the biggest infact.

You have artists that preach black love, building the black community blah blah and they can't even hold their own family unit down, having babies left and right with multiple partners, raising kids in that environment has proven to be a disastrous epidemic in the black community. If the artists I used as examples can't even get the fundamental building block of what they are preaching about right, what is the point? What just because they write a pseudo intellectual verse promoting black community growth they get a pass?

Jay-Z is wealthy, TI is rich, that means there is a strong chance that Jay-Z/TI junior won't have to sell poison to his own community like their fathers did in the 80's/90's. It's a very simple (but effective) concept that seemed to have flown over your head for some bizzare reason

If I had to make a choice, I'd rather be the "shallow rapper" that can improve his status financially, raise his family in a two parent household, in the right environment , e.t.c than some broke, disorganised "conscious" rapper that does anything but what he/she preaches, the people I gave as examples seem to fall in the latter category to a certain extent, neither is perfect but I'd be the former instead of the latter anyday

And Camel jockeys? nikka grow up, I don't indulge in any of the pathetic stan wars and agenda driven posts a lot of people on this board seem to be obsessed it, so miss me with that nonsense.

I think you're going off the rails with this whole "family structure" biz, when you try to pit mainstream rappers vs. "conscious" rappers.. Why even go there? You seem to be insinuating that because mainstream rappers have more material and means, that makes them better people.

Do you really want to compare, case by case, the stability of homes of famous rappers, vs. more conscious rappers. Do we want to go through the list of major artists who have melted down and made messes of their lives? Are you saying that most conscious rappers dont have fairly stable lives. What are you saying? And why use Jay Z as an example for anything? Hes one of the more successful artists in music history --- he has a union that is perhaps that most powerful and successful in all the world. Hes not some prototype example of a nuclear family. Hes in a class his own.

I just think overall, there is this weird hostility a lot of cats have to substantive artists. I dont get it. Who made a claim that conscious artists all live perfect lives? They're human beings, just like anyone else. People just like their content. I swear, white record execs did a number on black hip hop fans, conditioning them to hate music, and artists, that have the nerve to insert social realities into their music.

 

[Wild self]

Most of the shallow rappers are mad cutthroat about making money (Birdman, Fif, Gucci Mane), so of course they make more money. Especially when people hate conscious MCs more than the devil himself.

 

[Soundwave]

I feel like Waka falls into this category

Any time I see an interview from him, it's like there's more to him than the music he puts out there

 

[No_bammer_weed]

Because most times it ain't...which is why it ain't popular.

I'll be the first to tell you that certain images and topics aren't good for "the masses" or "the black community" ...but more often than not, its just NOT good. It doesn't sound that great. Why can't we talk about that?

You make it sound like people are averse to actual "content"...they're not.

People listen to music before they listen for content.

You think marvin gaye songs are good because of the message? No. Most people don't even get the message. The MUSIC is just incredible. Thats the point.

You're playing yourself if you think all rappers who dont blow, dont because their music isnt good. Now you're starting to talk crazy.

There is a reason why its called "pop music", and hip hop has been pop oriented for the last ten years at least. Quality of music and success often have very little to do with each other. If anything they counter each other. It all about formulas, connections, payola, ext. Music talent, ability, often are the last things considered and of importance.

You're going to tell me that Wiz Khaifa, Gucci, Waka, Macklemore, Trinidad James, Flo-rida, Pitbull, MGK, Chief Keef, ext are good rappers??????

 

[Sugar]

I feel like Waka falls into this category

Any time I see an interview from him, it's like there's more to him than the music he puts out there

I agree



No way these sucka conscious MCs are seeing this depth of suppressed genius

 

[Soundwave]

I agree



No way these sucka conscious MCs are seeing this depth of suppressed genius

Forgot about that

I was talking about print interviews and the like, but I'll take the L on this one

 

[Sugar]

Explain...

nikka...you just said ugly people work harder than pretty people

The fukk I look like taking you seriously?

 

[Soundwave]

nikka...you just said ugly people work harder than pretty people

The fukk I look like taking you seriously?

Kind of reminds me of a joke:

Why do fat girls give great head?

Because they have to

 

[Sugar]

Kind of reminds me of a joke:

Why do fat girls give great head?

Because they have to

Yo my breh you might be on to something..

 

[Rem]

I think you're going off the rails with this whole "family structure" biz, when you try to pit mainstream rappers vs. "conscious" rappers.. Why even go there? You seem to be insinuating that because mainstream rappers have more material and means, thats makes them better people.

Do you really want to compare, case by case, the stability of homes of famous rappers, vs. more conscious rappers. Do we want to go through the list of major artists who have melted down and made messes of their lives? Are you saying that most conscious rappers dont have fairly stable lives. What are you saying? And why use Jay Z as an example for anything? Hes one of the more successful artists in music history --- he has a union that is perhaps that most powerful and successful in all the world. Hes not some prototype example of a nuclear family. Hes in a class his own.

I just think overall, there is this weird hostility a lot of cats have to substantive artists. I dont get it. However made a claim that conscious artists all live perfect lives? They're human beings, just like anyone else. People just like their content. I swear, white record execs did a number on black hip hop fans, conditioning them to hate music, and artists, that have the nerve to insert social realities into their music.

I stated in my first post that OP was generalizing. However, the point of my posts in this thread is to show that just because a rapper makes a socially conscious record doesn't mean they are doing more for the community than the shallow rappers(the ones who are actually doing something).

The topic of your raps shouldn't be that decisive of a factor when accessing how much of a positive impact a rapper has on the community. This is particularly true in this day and age where, we KNOW for sure what the problems are in the community. In science, once you find out what the problem is, you start to perform experiments to devise a way to solve that problem, if you keep repeating the hypothesis over and over again, without any solutions, nothing gets done.

For this reason, I feel socially conscious songs are losing its effectiveness, its become boring and repetitive because we KNOW what these problems are, what is being done outside of the studio is what we should be focusing on.

If a socially conscious rapper backs up his raps with actions, great! then that is the perfect scenario. I don't feel a lot do though, and this is my (and I suspect many others) issue with the necessity to being socially conscious in records.


Also, for those that look down on lighthearted records, one should remember that people react to problems differently. After being on, say for example, the receiving end of a racist remark by a racist white Manager at work. Some people my find solace in listening to white manz world by pac, others might just want to listen to something light hearted, loosen up and not get depressed over it, even though they're radically different types of music, they can both do their jobs effectively in the said situation, depending on the person.

Each type of music has its own merits and the gripe a lot of people have with conscious music is the holier than thou that is often displayed against artists that chose not go in that direction.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

You're playing yourself if you think all rappers who dont blow, dont because their music isnt good. Now you're starting to talk crazy.

There is a reason why its called "pop music", and hip hop has been pop oriented for the last ten years at least. Quality of music and success often have very little to do with each other. If anything they counter each other. It all about formulas, connections, payola, ext. Music talent, ability, often are the last things considered and of importance.

You're going to tell me that Wiz Khaifa, Gucci, Waka, Macklemore, Trinidad James, Flo-rida, Pitbull, MGK, Chief Keef, ext are good rappers??????

I have NO problem with the rappers I bolded.

And I can tell how much disdain you have for actual talent if you're writing off Gucci.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

I agree



No way these sucka conscious MCs are seeing this depth of suppressed genius

that was when he just came out:



That was last week.

 

[C. Dante]

Yeah, but Chainz didnt blow until he was pushing 40....Nas made arguably the best hip hop album of all time at 20 years of age.

what does this have to do with anything


at all