Never compare Harden to D Wade ever again

[Biscayne]

Kobe in 2019

Off Ball Wade playing style wouldn’t give him success in the west though according to @murksiderock

Hardens style is the key.

 

[CanesMiamiLakers]

Harden can get you there he just won’t take you home

 

[murksiderock]

This is one of the more delusional takes I’ve seen on here.

Wade wouldn’t make the playoffs in the west if he has James Hardens supporting cast. Over/Under, Wade on those rockets teams only winning 30-40 games? You believe this?

When he wasn't flanked with two of the ten greatest players ever, Dwyane Wade's teams won an average of 39.6 games/year, compared to 55.7 wins/year when he played with those guys...

Let's add here, that in those 9 years, Wade was largely available, playing an average of 67 games/year. He actually played slightly less often when he was with those guys (66.1 games played/year)...

On average, Wade played 80%+ of the season and still led his teams to sub-40 wins----->in The East. Again, same East I've been told was so historically inept, anybody could run it...

But Wade didnt run it, so given we know what his actual results were, you think his winning would go UP in the superior bracket?

As I've always said. Wade was a great basketball player, one of the greatest players of All-Time. But he's so overrated. He's not one of the Top 30 players ever, so when we speak on him, we need to speak on him with the proper context and framing of his career. Shaq and LeBron won championships and led a ton of deep playoff runs, without Wade next to them...

Wade NEVER, not even once, led a deep playoff run without those guys next to him. Never did it ONE TIME...

For the record, Harden aint a GOAT30 player either, but the gap between he and Wade historically is Wade's '06 playoff run, and Wade consistently having a higher floor in the playoffs (yall love lying like Wade's postseason resume is unblemished, but being fair, I've always said Wade's postseason record is superior to Harden's. Harden has some really low, lows)...

Wade was a great baller. He was never the guy yall reinvent and try to say he was, and some of us understood what we were watching in real time. Extremely fortunate breaks in his career. Harden has at minimum 3, if he got Shaq and Bron...

Off Ball Wade playing style wouldn’t give him success in the west though according to @murksiderock

Hardens style is the key.

 

[Blurneed]

I made these points years before fam made them in here. Glad you remember. We also added detail to these points, you just don't agree, which is your prerogative...

Harden's prime ran from the 2012-13 season, thru the 2019-20 season. So, 8 years. In his prime he got the last good version of Dwight and carried him to a WCF---->the last good version of Dwight was an inferior player to the last great version of Shaq that Wade had, who was MVP runner-up (lost to Nash)...

He got the last good version of Chris Paul, who missed 30% of available games with Harden, and the end of a WCF...

He got the last good version of Westbrook for a year, a known playoff crash out who didn't win anything in his own prime...

Harden played with KD pre-, and post-, prime...

So every great player Harden played with, were at the very last stage of their primes when he got to play with them, and you know this because you can look at all of these guys year-by-year numbers to verify. He didn't have any of these guys in their peak----->and while Wade didn't have Peak Shaq, he did have runner-up MVP Shaq, a better player than any of these guys Harden teamed with...

Wade faceplanted in The East with rosters superstars won series with, and not just LeBron. We can go thru names of the post-Jordan East and exclude LeBron, and ask how some of these guys won series out East, yet Wade could only ever beat the Hornets...

Wade, who like Chris Paul, missed time in his prime, wasn't doing shyt with Paul. They'd be injured together...

Wade with an inferior version of late-prime Shaq wasn't doing shyt in The West with Dwight...

Wade definitely wouldn't work with Westbrook. So woild he miss yhe playoffs every year, probably not. But he inly won 2 playoff series in The East---->TWO. DeMar DeRozan, a clearly inferior player, won more than that out East. Realistically he ain't winning more than that in The West with Harden's teams and he certainly aint leading the charge to multiple WCF...

Disingenuous narrative at the bolded. Shaq was the runner up MVP the first year he got to Miami. But in realtime if you was watching, the torch was passing, and it was obvious in the playoffs. You conveniently ignored that the runner MVP Shaq had couldn't do shyt with Detroit when Wade went down with the rib injury in the ECFs where Wade was the clear leader by then and basically had Detroit on the ropes till Wade went down.

It wasn't until the next year that Wade was the clear leader and Shaq wasn't on the MVP list, in fact that year Wade was 6th and Shaq was nowhere to be found. And Wade won them the ring that year.

So u might can calculate percentages to fit ur narrative but sometimes u need somebody who watched in real-time to give more insight. Nice try tho.

 

[murksiderock]

Disingenuous narrative at the bolded. Shaq was the runner up MVP the first year he got to Miami. But in realtime if you was watching, the torch was passing, and it was obvious in the playoffs. You conveniently ignored that the runner MVP Shaq had couldn't do shyt with Detroit when Wade went down with the rib injury in the ECFs where Wade was the clear leader by then and basically had Detroit on the ropes till Wade went down.

It wasn't until the next year that Wade was the clear leader and Shaq wasn't on the MVP list, in fact that year Wade was 6th and Shaq was nowhere to be found. And Wade won them the ring that year.

So u might can calculate percentages to fit ur narrative but sometimes u need somebody who watched in real-time to give more insight. Nice try tho.

Are you able to explain why Wade was 20-4 in playoff series with Shaq and Bron, winning 55.7 wins/year; vs only 39.6 wins/year, 2-6 in playoffs without them? Why such a dramatic gap in win rate?

 

[Sccit]

@murksiderock


U THINK U SLICK, HUH?

CLAIMIN HARDEN > WADE SO THAT IT LOOKS LIKE LEBRON DIDNT NEED AN ALL TIME GREAT TO WIN IN MIAMI

 

[Blurneed]

Are you able to explain why Wade was 20-4 in playoff series with Shaq and Bron, winning 55.7 wins/year; vs only 39.6 wins/year, 2-6 in playoffs without them? Why such a dramatic gap in win rate?

Both of those guys JOINED Wades team. To a lesser extent Shaq cause it was a trade but he knew who was there. Besides that, it would take a while but if you go roster for roster, Wade has consistently had a worse cast than both Shaq and Bron throughout they careers. So the percentages tell A story but not the WHOLE story.

 

[MostReal]

yeah he's not in that championship class

 

[Mantis Toboggan M.D.]

Both of those guys JOINED Wades team. To a lesser extent Shaq cause it was a trade but he knew who was there. Besides that, it would take a while but if you go roster for roster, Wade has consistently had a worse cast than both Shaq and Bron throughout they careers. So the percentages tell A story but not the WHOLE story.

He only really had a good roster around him you could’ve reasonably expected playoff success from for 7 seasons in Miami (2004-06, 2011-14, 2016). Every other year his supporting cast without him would’ve been last year’s pistons levels of bad. If you’re expecting much from one of those rosters even with Wade, you’re setting yourself up for disappointment. That 39.6 includes the 2007-08 team where Wade missed 31 games and half the roster was gone or out of the league entirely by the following year or the one after.


The last 2 years of his prime before LeBron and Bosh joined the team his best teammate was Michael Beasley and his last playoff series before that he was the only player to average even 11 points while his center shot 20% from the field in the series. His last playoff run before leaving Miami (at 34) saw his team lose both their starting big men by the end of the first round and by game 7 of the semis the team had a 6’6 teenage rookie starting at center.


Anything he accomplished past 2016 would’ve been gravy. By that point you’re asking a 35+ year old guard with 2 bad knees to do big things in the spring? That doesn’t make much sense to me. The list of 35+ year old guys to make things happen in the playoffs is a real short one.

 

[murksiderock]

@murksiderock


U THINK U SLICK, HUH?

CLAIMIN HARDEN > WADE SO THAT IT LOOKS LIKE LEBRON DIDNT NEED AN ALL TIME GREAT TO WIN IN MIAMI

This why I say you've been online too long I've never once in my life hear mf's with these conspiracy angles, this is an online talking point. I talk ball all the time, nobody ever says "if you have this opinion, it's because you like this player"...

You so tied into online shyt because if you read any posts I've had in the past, and in this very thread, i state that I think Wade was a great player...

My issue with Wade is I think it's clear he wasn't as great a player as people give him credit for, and I've given my reasons why, in this and other threads. People have hypocritical basketball takes, whereas mine are consistent. Mf's will bring up players who have Finals chokes, but never bring up Wade's. Mf's will say that The East was so simple and easy to dominate, yet Wade struggled to win a playoff series in that supposedly easy conference, and when you point this out, you hear about how he was hurt this year, ir team was bad that year, etc...

But if you tell someone that Old LeBron can't carry a team the way he used to, or that he took mediocre rosters on plenty of long playoff runs, mf's have a different bar of accountability...

If a guy was a superstar, then I hold him to superstar accountability. Wade and everyone else. With me there is no, well for this guy I make exceptions...

Injury seasons are fair exclusions for someone, but is still a demerit if you're always hurt at inopportune times. Playing with subpar rosters is a fair context, and I allow that for anyone---->but Wade exhibiting that he couldn't best mid teams like the '09 Atlanta Hawks in a conference we all know was the weaker one, is a fair criticism. Iverson, Melo, DeRozan, and many others beat garbage East teams without a Shaq or Bron level teammate...

To me its an illustration of the level of player Wade was, even when he was post-prime but have good East teams like the '17 Bulls, and couldn't win a playoff series. Its an indicator of the level of player he was...

LeBron playing terribly in the '11 Finals and Wade being unable to carry the Heat home in a series where every game is for the taking, is an indicator of the level of player he was. He was the Heat's best player in that series but he was NOT great in every game, specifically in crunch time with the series in the balance, and because he WAS a superstar, I hold him to superstar accountability for that...

Wade was a great player. Yall just so married to online shyt yall have a sliding scale of stabdards you hold players to. It changes by the guy.....it doesn't change with me.

Both of those guys JOINED Wades team. To a lesser extent Shaq cause it was a trade but he knew who was there. Besides that, it would take a while but if you go roster for roster, Wade has consistently had a worse cast than both Shaq and Bron throughout they careers. So the percentages tell A story but not the WHOLE story.

I agree that it doesn't tell the whole story...

Wade with some of those East rosters should have been able to win more, even a .500 playoff record would suffice. He wasn't playing the '10 Celtics every playoffs. Lesser players won more in The East than he did, hell Haliburton is an example of an inferior player with more success in a weaker conference...

What you guys are really telling me is that if Wade didn't have one of the two best players ever as a teammate, he couldn't win series vs mediocre teams. You're helping make my case...

Those guys won a ton of playoff series without Wade. And won plenty with rosters without a Wade level player, Shaq early in his Laker run before Kobe ascended, had some solid teammates but didn't have a Wade, won series. Bron won PLENTY of series with no Wade next to him...

DeRozan, Butler, and a bunch of guys who in a vacuum were not as good if players as Wade, won in The East, and those guys NEVER had a LeBron or Shaq...

 

[murksiderock]

Anything he accomplished past 2016 would’ve been gravy. By that point you’re asking a 35+ year old guard with 2 bad knees to do big things in the spring? That doesn’t make much sense to me. The list of 35+ year old guys to make things happen in the playoffs is a real short one.

The 2017 Bulls didn't require him to do much heavy lifting. He played 60 games that year and was still an 18ppg scorer, and that team only won 41 games. They lose Rondo in Rd1 and can't beat a Celtics team that was young and inexperienced and nearly lost to the Wizards, before losing to Cleveland in 5...

So I do expect a 35-year old, 18ppg Regular Season Wade to not drop to 15ppg in the playoffs and losing Rondo to not be a death knell on a team you also had Butler and the opponent turned out to not be that good...

Wade on that team could only help generate 41 wins, so it kinda rings hollow when you talk about how bad some of his other teams were...

 

[Jean toomer]

The fact of the matter is if you’re serious about winning when it matters most you want a whole lotta players before you want Mister Flail & Fail on your team. There’s no Universe where you want this fraud leading your team over Jimmy Butler.

Any thread with Harden headlining is a bat signal for Walt to manifest hate and disgust. This thread has me in tears. Grown men willing to die on Harden Hill in 2025.

 

[Walt]

Any thread with Harden headlining is a bat signal for Walt to manifest hate and disgust. This thread has me in tears. Grown men willing to die on Harden Hill in 2025.

They were trying to sell an MVP case for this fraudulent bum!




Mister Flail & Fail put up Scoot Henderson shooting splits this season.


They never stop trying to figure out a way to make him what he isn't.

Conversion therapy isn't real. Let that fakkit be who he is.

 

[FTBS]

All those Rockets teams, the Philly team that got bounced by Miami, replace wade with harden and those rockets teams at least getting to the finals. Replace wade with harden on that Philly squad, they at least getting to the ECF. We’ve seen how wade does with a solid big man. We saw post bron “washed” Wade get to game 7 of the 2nd round with Whiteside, washed deng, Joe Johnson and a solid goran dragic. Wades two way ability was a huge reason why those heattles had success. Harden prime or otherwise not guaranteed to get to the finals in 2011 as dynamic duo with bron. We saw him fail as a 6th man with limited responsibility in the 2012 finals. Ironically, when being guarded by Dwade. You keep saying 2006 is the seperator, but that’s kinda the point. We’ve seen wade win with rag tag castaways. We’ve seen harden constantly fail with guys who were still making all stars. Without 2006, wade is still a 2 time champion as a 2nd option off guard. Harden as a 2nd option PG still lost. In the east…

6th man harden still lost(granted in the finals).

Lead SG guard harden still lost in Houston under a favorable system and coach.

Multiple iterations of Harden, with the volume of teammates he’s bad, while playing various roles, under various responsibilities, while playing in both conferences in varying divisions have still lost, and it makes the competition between the two all the more favorable to Wade. Choose an iteration of Harden and the results are the same.

You most def saw 31-32 and his inconsistency, struggles, and injuries. Thats getting BK and Philly to the Finals? Even peak Wade isnt getting past those Warriors.

 

[FTBS]

His Houston teams are better teams with Wade. With Dwight and CP3, Wade is a better fit and can actually play in a system. Wade under Dantoni is also averaging 30/10 and those teams do better because the players for better with Wade. Especially CP3 and Dwight.

The Nets team is definitely better with Wade. This Clippers team is better with a 35yo Wade. He gave you 15ppg in 26mpg his last year. Those numbers would be around 22 on 45%. He also plays off the ball and allows Kawhi the freedom to do his thing.

Also, the defense is MUCH better with Wade.

Dwight or CP3...they weren't there at the same time. They were at or near the top of the west throughout multiple iterations and changes. Wade is not making those teams champs which is what a player that is far and away better would do.

See post above regarding Nets. 35 year old Wade is absolutely not holding down the firt while Kawhi plays half the year breh. We talking what he actually did at these ages not what he did at his absolute best or wishful thinking.