Now that Kobe's legendary career is over, where does he rank on your all time list?

Where does Kobe Rank all time?


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Bilz

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You can say that about anything breh. Did Curry only make 400 threes because he attempted so many? Do bigs only get all those rebounds because the team decides they are the primary defensive rebounders? Are starters only considered better than bench players because they get more playing time?

Trust, 81 was a reflection of Kobe's unique ability to shoot the ball.

Take a player like Curry for example. He has been up in the 50s a few times but if he took all his teams shots for a game, do you think he'd still top out at that number?

Games like Kobe's the other night and the David Robinson scoring title game show you that shot volume creates point volume. Doesn't mean it doesn't take some skill to pull it off, but Kobe outscores other players in individual games because he calls his own number more often than other players would.
 

Reggie

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Kobe's game was skilled as shyt and the heights he reached we probably won't see again. With all he has done I put him in the top ten but he's so polarizing as a player that I can see why some won't rate him that way.
 

Trece

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Kobe's game was skilled as shyt and the heights he reached we probably won't see again. With all he has done I put him in the top ten but he's so polarizing as a player that I can see why some won't rate him that way.



Kobe haters are in for a rude awakening as players almost always go UP on the all time rankings list after retirement as we begin to turn these moments into stories and these stories into legends. Imagine a kobe hater sitting in a barber shop in 10-15 years getting his larry holmes hairline shaped up and cutting the gray around his ears talking about the greatest players of all time. Some youngster that is in kindergarten right NOW is going to interupt and blurt out Kobe because he has been watching videos of the mamba on youtube (or whatever future video service there is). All he will see is the 81 points, the 60 points in the last game, the 62 in 3 quarters (twice) the 56 in 3 quarters, the streak of 40 points games (9), the streak of 4 50 point plus games including two 60 point games in there. The 5 championships, the 9 first team selections, the two free throws on a torn achilles, the Matt Barnes statue moment, all of these things will be replayed millions of times on youtube to future generations to young fans. A kid that is 12 years old and just starting to get really into basketball will google greatest basketball ever and MJ and Kobe will pop up and once they see the fadeaways, the dunks and the swagger it is over. This is the reason why so many young soccer stans talk about this cat named Pele because of the legend. But todays Kobe hater can bust out with a few stats and the kid in the next chair and probably the barber are going to be like

:camby:

All the Kobe hating articles on ESPN will be gone as those writers (think Whitlock) will be dead or retired and no one cares what an old writer thought. So you cant even point to an article that backs up your case cause there wont be any. The future is a sad world for Kobe haters but in reality they probably wont even care about that anymore and will be more concerned with keeping your meals down or some shyt.
 
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eifmp

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"No moves" lebron is more skilled than kobe?

:dahell:

Yea...I think so. You're just thinking offense. I'm thinking total impact: Lebron impacts a team on offense and defense more than any non-center in the game today and the most since Jordan. See the thing about the NBA is that, 95% of the NBA champions had at least an all star caliber big-man. Because height and skill are so hard to come by, the recipe to win was a big man with offensive and/or defensive talent being the centerpiece of most NBA champions:
60's Celtics had Bill Russell,
70's lakers had Wilt Chamberlain,
80's Lakers had Abdul-Jabbar,
Bill Walton with the Trailblazers in 77,
Wes Unseld and the Bullets in '78,
Bucks in 71 with Alcindor
Wills Reed and the Knicks in '70 & '73.
Moses Malone and the 76ers in '83.
Spurs with Tim Duncan
Rockets with Olajuwon
Pistons in '04 Don't win without Ben Wallace being dominant defensively in the paint.
As great as Larry Bird was, he had a Hall of Fame Center in Kevin McHale.
As great as Kobe was, he had Shaq (HOF) and Pau Gasol (who, if you look at his stats, should go into the Hall of Fame himself).

Yes there are exception to the rule: The '75 Warriors with Rick Barry, The 78 supersonics with Dennis Johnson, 89-90 Pistons (we can argue Laimbeer if you want).

But that's what they are, exceptions. There just aren't many players like Lebron, like Jordan, who can win titles and consistently go to NBA finals without a Big man who was dominant in the paint either on the offensive or defensive end, (keep it real Chris Bosh is not that kind of dude :comeon: ). Jordan needed Pippen, but he wasn't a big man. Lebron needed Wade & Bosh (not dominant big men). Might as well add Steph curry to the list as well.

Final point: Lebron has better career averages than Kobe all around. Not only that, but Lebron has more total rebounds and total assists than Kobe despite playing in 359 fewer games. The choice is clear brehs.
 

superunknown23

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Kobe had to be good to do what he did, but we cant overlook that shot volume has always been on his side. People talk about how no other player scored 81 but is that really a measure of ability? There are a few players who have scored more in a quarter than Kobe ever did. Are they more potent short term scorers? Or did they just happen to do something Kobe and other players didn't?

You can say that about anything breh. Did Curry only make 400 threes because he attempted so many? Do bigs only get all those rebounds because the team decides they are the primary defensive rebounders? Are starters only considered better than bench players because they get more playing time?

Trust, 81 was a reflection of Kobe's unique ability to shoot the ball.

Then why couldn't he do it more regularly?

Can you tell me what these numbers are?

12-33
28-46
7-22

Those are the shooting numbers for Kobe in that 3-game stretch where he scored 81 in the middle game. He shot 36%, 60.9%, then 32%. Hell, that game was in February, yet that entire season he had only had ONE game where he had shot over 60.9% from the field. And the in the remaining two months of the season, he'd only have ONE game where he'd do it again.

He did, however, have 54 games where he took 26 or more shots, including 25 games where he took 30 or more.

If you shoot a TON of shots every game, then one game your ton of shots is eventually going to coincide with a hot-shooting night. But then another game you're going to shoot 17-47.

Kobe was a volume shooter. He got great scoring totals on occasion by shooting up at LOT of shots. But for every game where he made half his shots, he had another game where he didn't even make 1/3 of them. That gets him all the accolades based on individual regular-season games. But when you average out the good performances with the bad, it's a lot less impressive.



And he chased it a lot too. Not just the 81-point game. Remember that 40-point scoring streak? After he got the first 3 it was like he just saw red in his eyes.

* In the 4th game of the streak he put up 41 shots and 7 turnovers in a 10-point loss to the Spurs, finally getting over the 40-point hump with less than a minute left in the game. Shaq only saw 19 shot attempts the whole game and barely got to the line.

* In the 5th game Kobe was so focused on his own offense he lets Allan Houston light him up for a career-high 53 points on just 29 shots. Kobe managed to limp to 40 on 31 shots with a minute left in the 7-point loss at home to an awful Knicks team.

* In the 6th game Kobe doesn't even have 40 in regulation, but gets lucky that it goes to overtime (he missed all 4 shots in the last 2 minutes of regulation) and reaches 50 in double-overtime off of 38 shots

* In the 7th game the Lakers without Kobe had opened up a 10-point lead on the Jazz in the 4th. But Kobe comes in with 7 minutes left and starts repeatedly jacking long jumpers with plenty of time left in the shot clock. The Jazz cut the lead to 2 before a few of Kobe's jumpers fall and hold them off. He hits 40 by going 2-4 on free throws in the final 15 seconds.

* In the 8th game Kobe went 2-8 in the 4th against Portland, repeatedly jacking bad shots. He finally got a jumper to fall with 9 seconds left to hit 40 points even. After the game Phil Jackson criticized Kobe for taking 6-7 forced shots, specifying several of those late shots when he was clearly trying to reach 40 again.

* In the 9th game was the worst display. Kobe went 1-9 in the 4th, including 0-6 in the final 4 minutes after he reached 39 points. During that time an 11-point Laker lead got cut to 5 as Kobe just jacked shot after shot, often with tons of time still on the shot clock. "Well, I wasn't sure if Kobe was going to chase that 40 points so bad that he was going to cut our chances out there at the end of the game," Lakers coach Phil Jackson said. "It got a little tenuous." Kobe finally got put on the line with 23 seconds left and made 2 freebies to reach 41 points on 13-34 shooting.

So in the final 6 games of the streak, Kobe didn't once hit 40 points with more than a minute left to go in regulation, and only then by jacking up shots to the detriment of his own team. If he hadn't been chasing "the streak", he probably doesn't score 40 points in any of those games unless the Houston game still goes to overtime. What other superstar in league history has so regularly chased his own scoring accomplishments like that? It's why Kobe has the fans and the haters that he does.



You ask any Kobestan what Kobe's most impressive career accomplishments are, and 80% of what they list will either be something he did in individual regular-season games (not even over the course of a whole season), or revolve around the success the team had when led by Shaq. If you took out the glamour of the 81, the 62, and the 40s/50s streak (which combined aren't even 15 meaningless regular season games spread out over a 20-year-career) and the Shaq three-peat, and the idea that Kobe would even be considered a top-10 all-time great is a joke.
 

inndaskKy

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Then why couldn't he do it more regularly?

Can you tell me what these numbers are?

12-33
28-46
7-22

Those are the shooting numbers for Kobe in that 3-game stretch where he scored 81 in the middle game. He shot 36%, 60.9%, then 32%. Hell, that game was in February, yet that entire season he had only had ONE game where he had shot over 60.9% from the field. And the in the remaining two months of the season, he'd only have ONE game where he'd do it again.

He did, however, have 54 games where he took 26 or more shots, including 25 games where he took 30 or more.

If you shoot a TON of shots every game, then one game your ton of shots is eventually going to coincide with a hot-shooting night. But then another game you're going to shoot 17-47.

Kobe was a volume shooter. He got great scoring totals on occasion by shooting up at LOT of shots. But for every game where he made half his shots, he had another game where he didn't even make 1/3 of them. That gets him all the accolades based on individual regular-season games. But when you average out the good performances with the bad, it's a lot less impressive.



And he chased it a lot too. Not just the 81-point game. Remember that 40-point scoring streak? After he got the first 3 it was like he just saw red in his eyes.

* In the 4th game of the streak he put up 41 shots and 7 turnovers in a 10-point loss to the Spurs, finally getting over the 40-point hump with less than a minute left in the game. Shaq only saw 19 shot attempts the whole game and barely got to the line.

* In the 5th game Kobe was so focused on his own offense he lets Allan Houston light him up for a career-high 53 points on just 29 shots. Kobe managed to limp to 40 on 31 shots with a minute left in the 7-point loss at home to an awful Knicks team.

* In the 6th game Kobe doesn't even have 40 in regulation, but gets lucky that it goes to overtime (he missed all 4 shots in the last 2 minutes of regulation) and reaches 50 in double-overtime off of 38 shots

* In the 7th game the Lakers without Kobe had opened up a 10-point lead on the Jazz in the 4th. But Kobe comes in with 7 minutes left and starts repeatedly jacking long jumpers with plenty of time left in the shot clock. The Jazz cut the lead to 2 before a few of Kobe's jumpers fall and hold them off. He hits 40 by going 2-4 on free throws in the final 15 seconds.

* In the 8th game Kobe went 2-8 in the 4th against Portland, repeatedly jacking bad shots. He finally got a jumper to fall with 9 seconds left to hit 40 points even. After the game Phil Jackson criticized Kobe for taking 6-7 forced shots, specifying several of those late shots when he was clearly trying to reach 40 again.

* In the 9th game was the worst display. Kobe went 1-9 in the 4th, including 0-6 in the final 4 minutes after he reached 39 points. During that time an 11-point Laker lead got cut to 5 as Kobe just jacked shot after shot, often with tons of time still on the shot clock. "Well, I wasn't sure if Kobe was going to chase that 40 points so bad that he was going to cut our chances out there at the end of the game," Lakers coach Phil Jackson said. "It got a little tenuous." Kobe finally got put on the line with 23 seconds left and made 2 freebies to reach 41 points on 13-34 shooting.

So in the final 6 games of the streak, Kobe didn't once hit 40 points with more than a minute left to go in regulation, and only then by jacking up shots to the detriment of his own team. If he hadn't been chasing "the streak", he probably doesn't score 40 points in any of those games unless the Houston game still goes to overtime. What other superstar in league history has so regularly chased his own scoring accomplishments like that? It's why Kobe has the fans and the haters that he does.



You ask any Kobestan what Kobe's most impressive career accomplishments are, and 80% of what they list will either be something he did in individual regular-season games (not even over the course of a whole season), or revolve around the success the team had when led by Shaq. If you took out the glamour of the 81, the 62, and the 40s/50s streak (which combined aren't even 15 meaningless regular season games spread out over a 20-year-career) and the Shaq three-peat, and the idea that Kobe would even be considered a top-10 all-time great is a joke.

That's some special kind of hating breh. You do know that's what fg% is for right? Kobe shot 45% that season on 27 shots. It is what it is. Still changes nothing about the fact that no other player (other than Wilt obviously) has had the ability to get as hot as Kobe would get on a regular basis where he would score 50/60+ and eventually 81. No one is arguing that Kobe was the most efficient player ever, just that he was one of the best scorers ever.
 
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Legends are made in the playoffs. That's what separates men from boys... When people think of MJ, they'll always look at playoff games.
Kobe did his scoring binges only in the regular season (he has only one 50-pt game in the playoffs, despite playing more games than everyone).:manny:
List of National Basketball Association single-game playoff scoring leaders - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


The hatred :russ:
Why does goatbe burn your soul so?
He's on the list hundreds of players aren't :mjlol:
These niccas are hillarious
Goatbe took a team with
Ronny turiaf
Von wafer
Kwame brown
On the team and this is how you besmirch his fine name :pacspit:
 

Professor Emeritus

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That's some special kind of hating breh. You do know that's what fg% is for right? Kobe shot 45% that season on 27 shots. It is what it is. Still changes nothing about the fact that no other player (other than Wilt obviously) has had the ability to get as hot as Kobe would get on a regular basis where he would score 50/60+ and eventually 81. No one is arguing that Kobe was the most efficient player ever, just that he was one of the best scorers ever.

But what does it mean to "get as hot" as Kobe when you go, say, 19-44 (plus 14 trips to the line) to score 53 points? That's FIFTY-ONE possessions there.

Kobe has scored 58 and 60 points in his career in games where he didn't even make half his shots. Kobe's scored over 50 points on less than 50% shooting seven times. The issue isn't how "hot" Kobe gets. EVERYONE who is a superstar gets hot and makes 60% of their shots from time to time. The difference is the degree to which Kobe demanded that he be the one taking the shots.

If Lebron or Curry had as many games where they'd tried scoring 40+ times, do you really doubt that they'd have a hell of a lot more 50+ games?

Basketball is a game of possessions. You don't get more possessions than the other team just by shooting more. The team that wins is the one that scores the most points per possession. Kobe taking a higher % of his team's shots does not help his team in that respect.


I'm not denying that Kobe is an all-time great scorer. He's up there with Jordan, Durant, Baylor, Lebron, Gervin, Iverson... (I'm not counting the guys who had to have someone else feed them the ball.) But calling him the GOAT because he occasionally put up huge totals in regular season games against bad teams....I don't see it. He just took a lot more shots a lot more often than any other superstar took a lot of shots. He wanted the individual scoring accolades more, and so he went out and got them. That doesn't make him a better player.
 
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Draje

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"No moves" lebron is more skilled than kobe?

:dahell:

Skilled or talented ? Depends on what you're looking at.

Lebron is a more talented passer, playmaker, slasher, and finisher anywhere near the rim. His vision and ability to process the entire court is probably only below the likes of Magic, Nash, and Kidd.

Kobe is a more skilled ball-handler, scorer, and more skilled creatively. He's also Curry-esque in that he's ungodly good at making "bad shots" which is his best ability. You can play Kobe perfectly and give up the "preferred shot" for a defensive scheme and he'll drill it. Continuously. It's why he's been a Spurs killer.

IMO, they're pretty much the same in terms of overall impact. Lebron is more consistently dominant, a more versatile player, and more efficient. Kobe is a more explosive scorer, has a more versatile skill set, and more polished.

Kobe is still an elite playmaker even if he isn't as good as Lebron and Lebron is still an elite scorer even if he isn't as dangerous as Kobe. Just depends on what you looking for.
 
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Wow,I see people having Kobe not even in the top 10,is that legit?

Let me see:

Mike
Magic
Kareem
Duncan

And IMO that's the only people right now that clearly rank ahead of Kobe on an all time great list,and Lebron will be there once he's done,but other than that,Kobe is top 5 all time IMO
 

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Games like Kobe's the other night and the David Robinson scoring title game show you that shot volume creates point volume. Doesn't mean it doesn't take some skill to pull it off, but Kobe outscores other players in individual games because he calls his own number more often than other players would.

I missed how good of an example the David Robinson game was. And there were others like it.

Trying to win the scoring title on the last day, Robinson goes 26-41 from the field and 18-25 from the line on the way to 71 points.

Trying to win the scoring title on the last day, David Thompson goes 28-38 from the field and 17-20 from the line on the way to 73 points...no three-point line!

Trying to win the scoring title on the last day, George Gervin goes 23-49 from the field on the way to 63 points.


Is there something magic about the final day of the season? I just listed 3 of the 10 greatest scoring performances in NBA history by anyone not named "Wilt", and they all just happened to fall on the last day. Coincidence? Or is it just "when a superstar has a reason to take all the shots, he can score a ton of points".

The difference is, other players almost never put up those massive FGA numbers except when they were trying to get a scoring title on the last day of the season. Whereas Kobe did it over and over again. If you're a 44% shooter and you put up 40 shots enough times....on one of those days you'll hit 30% of the shots and only score 30-something, and on another day you'll hit 60% of the shots and score 80.
 
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