The dude did better than I ever expected, I’ll give him that
Official 2020 Democratic Primary Debate Thread
- Thread starter mc_brew
- Start date
Biden turned this moment into a win, and shytted on a vile republican at the same time. The narrative has changed
daemonova
hit it, & I didn't go Erykah Badu crazy, #yallmad
The confusion on the morning news shows Between wind and wine caves should be epic, cue the faith no moreAmy could smell the inner beta bytchassness in Pete. I'm really not trying to sound sexist at all, so forgive me if it sounds that way but getting bullied by a female isn't going to be a good look for him. No amount of fancy words and timing is undoing that kind of perceived dynamic, Wine cave might stick too we'll see.
Biden’s avoidance of the reparations issue was even more egregious.
He literally started talking about how great hispanic immigrants are after a direct question on reparations.
I don’t anyone with a serious shot of winning is going to touch that issue like that other than just saying they support HR 40.
Same he's done for me he always actively avoided the question by bringing up non relatables
he actually is trying to change one of the biggest costs we have which is end of life care. The us keeps ppl alive for longer than we should, Asians don’t. If we stopped doing this we’d save 100’s of billions.
it’s a culture issue no one wants to talk about. But it is “punting” by him, bc that’s one of the last things that will ever change it’s too ingrained in the USA
Pivoting from reparations to Mexicans was a terrible call. Every time I think of it im...
Tariq, Yvette, and the Hoteps are gonna have a field day.
… to top it off Biden is the best hope of beating Trump.
Tariq, Yvette, and the Hoteps are gonna have a field day.
… to top it off Biden is the best hope of beating Trump.
Bernie was asked a question on racial issues and said I want to get back to climate change. The moderator checked him and said please stick to the topic. Bernie tried to save himself by saying climate change will hit people of color the most and started rambling. It was a really bad moment, because it seemed like Bernie was trying to avoid talking about race.
Biden moment was even worse. He was asked directly about reparations, and changed the subject to immigration. The moderators didn’t say anything.
JMurder
SOHH Member since 01...
I'm eventually gonna watch but were any of the other candidates asked about racial issues
the kid
Real Esquire, Not the Magazine
My problem with Bernie, in the primary at least, is he has tries to make his signature policies apply to everything, like they are magic elixirs. It displays a lack of in depth thought on how to make stuff work.
storyteller
Veteran
Considering the question was about what message it sends that there aren't more PoC on stage besides Yang, I didn't think it was a bad recovery. But I'm speaking through the prism of a Puerto Rican who saw the intersection of climate change and racial disparities first hand.
Worthless Loser
Blackpilled
Biden turned this moment into a win, and shytted on a vile republican at the same time. The narrative has changed
President Big Boy Biden made her fallback.
storyteller
Veteran
Alright fam, I didn't think I'd get through this whole debate having slogged through so much garbage. But the cut down to 7 made a difference and we got some pretty good questions along the way (with some glaring omissions, the make up of the Supreme Court is worth discussing for example). With less people fighting for time, everyone had more opportunities to get across broad visions and at times narrow things down (although the minute limit meant candidates could rarely get into detail). The big news here is that everyone was sharp. We got some of the best answers of any debate out of pretty much everybody. Even Pete came out strong before the rest of the candidates made it clear that they don't like him...everyone, even Yang took shots at Pete (Yang hit him with a wine cave quip).
When I rate performances the two main guidelines I have are, who helped themselves the most and who had the most standout moments. The problem with last night is that everyone did well, so it was mostly holding serve. So keep in mind that this is more based on who I believe gave performances that could help gain points in the polling. Biden for instance, didn't hurt himself but I don't think he had much to gain from this. So he'll dip a bit on ranking but I think he'll remain atop the polling.
1. Amy Klobuchar - Yeah, I feel weird saying this one, but in terms of who probably has the most to gain off the performance, it's Klobuchar. Klobuchar had the second longest speaking time on stage and made a wise decision to inject herself into a few battles between candidates ahead of her. That made her look the part of their peers. She did this when Bernie and Biden fought over healthcare and following Pete and Warren's dust ups over fundraising. Her answers were totally forgettable and kinda derailed the back and forths, but it drew attention. Amy also had the best snipe of the night when she clowned Pete for bragging about a race in Indiana that he "lost by 20 points." I still get BBQ Becky vibes from the woman and the canned jokes always flop...but this was far and away her best performance and she might be the only to really make gains.
2. Bernie Sanders - I'd have Joe Biden here if not for the videos of the Frank Luntz focus group post debate. Bernie had 6 supporters entering the Focus Group and 14 on his way out, Warren came in second place with 9 supporters from that group. Much might be made about Bernie's attempt to loop in Climate Change on the "message to people of color" question, which he got cut off on and asked to answer the question (an approach the moderators didn't take with anyone else mid-answer). But his recovery actually works seamlessly if you remove the interruption and as a Puerto Rican, it actually made sense from my own experiences. He also hit his golden oldies on M4A (smoked Joe in a back and forth on this) and brought up student loan debt. Finally, he had the second biggest room shaker when he backed up Warren about fundraisers by bringing in Biden and Pete's billionaire donor totals.
3. Joe Biden - The only problem that keeps Joe Biden from being higher on the list is that he's already in the lead and I don't see this performance gaining any new support. Biden's messaging was essentially the same but he was just much sharper and together than he's been in other debates. He only lost the beat a couple of times and his biggest potential gaffe, wasn't really a gaffe at all but could be perceived that way...that's the stuttering thing, he had a stutter when he was younger so I don't think the impersonation was a misstep. It was a reality he's lived in. Joe didn't bring anything new to the table, but he's the front runner and didn't have to. What he did do was solidify his position with a full three hours without any blunders or gaffes.
4. Warren - Similar to Biden, Warren had a really good night but she drops a tier on lack of a big highlight moment. The closest she got was a clever response to the question of potentially being one of the oldest presidents elected, "I'd also be the youngest woman elected" was some gold right there. Liz went Buttigieg's neck at one point and I thought Pete was able to play the spin game to come away looking better, but then Bernie came in and dropped a hammer that rebounded for team progressive. Warren also had the best answers of the first hour. She just seemed to lose a bit of momentum between the back and forth with Pete and the way too frequent selfie references. The selfie thing is awesome but too many call backs turned it into a laugh line by the close out which took away from a fantastic answer otherwise. Anyway, I think she did really well but not enough to pass the two guys ahead of her plus with less room to gain than Klobuchar. Thus a fourth spot.
5. Yang - Andrew Yang always comes across likeable and down to Earth when he answers...but he just never takes up enough mic time to gain big ground. His inability to sneak in any legislative plans beyond the UBI was pretty clear even though he did give very nice big picture answers (especially on immigration). I can't place whether the self deprecating stuff helps because it makes him likeable or hurts because it portrays him as less qualified while he also fades out for chunks of the debate. But it's hard to envision him actually hurting himself when any of his answers, there just wasn't enough meat there to make any serious gains.
6. Steyer - I get a laugh out of Steyer being a billionaire on stage and co-signing the progressives that say billionaires need to be taxed. But if we're putting his responses next to the other progressive voices in the room, he's just giving the poor man's version of their answers, how ironic is that? To be completely fair, he gave solid but completely vanilla answers. If there wasn't enough meat to Yang's responses than Steyer's were straight up tofu...no flavor. It also bothers me how much money he dumped into getting on stage to be the less than version of better candidates. He could have donated to a ton of down ballot efforts...probably could have started a progressive think tank if he really wanted.
7. Buttigieg - The only candidate that I think this debate actively hurt was Pete Buttigieg. Every other candidate took at least one shot at him. Klobuchar had a moment that was like when Scarface quit in reverse, "Biden's cool, Liz is cool, Bernie's cool, Fruck you Pete, I'm out." When even Yang pokes fun at your wine cave fundraisers, you've got an image problem. Pete actually tried to fight back but you can only spin your way out of so many shots fired when you're vapid. We've seen Warren face this storm, Biden dealt with it, Bernie in the first debate had all the no names like Delaney shooting...they all did better than Pete did last night. It felt a lot like Buttigieg got exposed last night, though from what I heard about post debate coverage on the network channels...they'll probably try to cover for him smh.
Anyway...this was really good. I'd love to replace Steyer and Pete with Castro and Booker. The latter two have substantive ideas that are worth getting across to more Americans. I'm a Klobuchar hater but rate her first on the room to gain that she has. Bernie, Warren and Biden are fairly interchangeable in my mind. Yang needs to assert himself if he wants to pick up more. That's the whole run down from my perspective.
When I rate performances the two main guidelines I have are, who helped themselves the most and who had the most standout moments. The problem with last night is that everyone did well, so it was mostly holding serve. So keep in mind that this is more based on who I believe gave performances that could help gain points in the polling. Biden for instance, didn't hurt himself but I don't think he had much to gain from this. So he'll dip a bit on ranking but I think he'll remain atop the polling.
1. Amy Klobuchar - Yeah, I feel weird saying this one, but in terms of who probably has the most to gain off the performance, it's Klobuchar. Klobuchar had the second longest speaking time on stage and made a wise decision to inject herself into a few battles between candidates ahead of her. That made her look the part of their peers. She did this when Bernie and Biden fought over healthcare and following Pete and Warren's dust ups over fundraising. Her answers were totally forgettable and kinda derailed the back and forths, but it drew attention. Amy also had the best snipe of the night when she clowned Pete for bragging about a race in Indiana that he "lost by 20 points." I still get BBQ Becky vibes from the woman and the canned jokes always flop...but this was far and away her best performance and she might be the only to really make gains.
2. Bernie Sanders - I'd have Joe Biden here if not for the videos of the Frank Luntz focus group post debate. Bernie had 6 supporters entering the Focus Group and 14 on his way out, Warren came in second place with 9 supporters from that group. Much might be made about Bernie's attempt to loop in Climate Change on the "message to people of color" question, which he got cut off on and asked to answer the question (an approach the moderators didn't take with anyone else mid-answer). But his recovery actually works seamlessly if you remove the interruption and as a Puerto Rican, it actually made sense from my own experiences. He also hit his golden oldies on M4A (smoked Joe in a back and forth on this) and brought up student loan debt. Finally, he had the second biggest room shaker when he backed up Warren about fundraisers by bringing in Biden and Pete's billionaire donor totals.
3. Joe Biden - The only problem that keeps Joe Biden from being higher on the list is that he's already in the lead and I don't see this performance gaining any new support. Biden's messaging was essentially the same but he was just much sharper and together than he's been in other debates. He only lost the beat a couple of times and his biggest potential gaffe, wasn't really a gaffe at all but could be perceived that way...that's the stuttering thing, he had a stutter when he was younger so I don't think the impersonation was a misstep. It was a reality he's lived in. Joe didn't bring anything new to the table, but he's the front runner and didn't have to. What he did do was solidify his position with a full three hours without any blunders or gaffes.
4. Warren - Similar to Biden, Warren had a really good night but she drops a tier on lack of a big highlight moment. The closest she got was a clever response to the question of potentially being one of the oldest presidents elected, "I'd also be the youngest woman elected" was some gold right there. Liz went Buttigieg's neck at one point and I thought Pete was able to play the spin game to come away looking better, but then Bernie came in and dropped a hammer that rebounded for team progressive. Warren also had the best answers of the first hour. She just seemed to lose a bit of momentum between the back and forth with Pete and the way too frequent selfie references. The selfie thing is awesome but too many call backs turned it into a laugh line by the close out which took away from a fantastic answer otherwise. Anyway, I think she did really well but not enough to pass the two guys ahead of her plus with less room to gain than Klobuchar. Thus a fourth spot.
5. Yang - Andrew Yang always comes across likeable and down to Earth when he answers...but he just never takes up enough mic time to gain big ground. His inability to sneak in any legislative plans beyond the UBI was pretty clear even though he did give very nice big picture answers (especially on immigration). I can't place whether the self deprecating stuff helps because it makes him likeable or hurts because it portrays him as less qualified while he also fades out for chunks of the debate. But it's hard to envision him actually hurting himself when any of his answers, there just wasn't enough meat there to make any serious gains.
6. Steyer - I get a laugh out of Steyer being a billionaire on stage and co-signing the progressives that say billionaires need to be taxed. But if we're putting his responses next to the other progressive voices in the room, he's just giving the poor man's version of their answers, how ironic is that? To be completely fair, he gave solid but completely vanilla answers. If there wasn't enough meat to Yang's responses than Steyer's were straight up tofu...no flavor. It also bothers me how much money he dumped into getting on stage to be the less than version of better candidates. He could have donated to a ton of down ballot efforts...probably could have started a progressive think tank if he really wanted.
7. Buttigieg - The only candidate that I think this debate actively hurt was Pete Buttigieg. Every other candidate took at least one shot at him. Klobuchar had a moment that was like when Scarface quit in reverse, "Biden's cool, Liz is cool, Bernie's cool, Fruck you Pete, I'm out." When even Yang pokes fun at your wine cave fundraisers, you've got an image problem. Pete actually tried to fight back but you can only spin your way out of so many shots fired when you're vapid. We've seen Warren face this storm, Biden dealt with it, Bernie in the first debate had all the no names like Delaney shooting...they all did better than Pete did last night. It felt a lot like Buttigieg got exposed last night, though from what I heard about post debate coverage on the network channels...they'll probably try to cover for him smh.
Anyway...this was really good. I'd love to replace Steyer and Pete with Castro and Booker. The latter two have substantive ideas that are worth getting across to more Americans. I'm a Klobuchar hater but rate her first on the room to gain that she has. Bernie, Warren and Biden are fairly interchangeable in my mind. Yang needs to assert himself if he wants to pick up more. That's the whole run down from my perspective.
Yangs only purpose was to make UBI and automation a national subject. That’s why I donated months ago. He still has no shot and is too paper thin on a list of issues to be a viable candidate or atleast one I would vote for over warren. He could find himself a niche as a cabinet member.