Iran government moves to block major oil, gas routeIran government calls for close of Strait of Hormuz after US attack
Official War With Iran Thread
- Thread starter Berniewood Hogan
- Start date
Very true. China would be pissed.
Is iran a regional imperialist?
Json
Superstar
Pakistan and India might be going at it soon over water rights so not pissing off America is in its best interest. Condemnations might be the most they can muster
Instead of having a nice glass of wine and some cheese to wind down his evening in France, nikkas got my guy up here trying to beat some sense into themI have no problem with the criticism of Dem leadership, you can even find some in my posting history and I'm not even American. The sub is indeed sometimes circle jerky but we shouldn't fall in constant relativism either.
My issue with the Kamala/Biden hypotheticals is how can you say what they would have done if they didn't do it when they could ? Cricizing for their handling of Gaza, Lebanon or Yemen, sure. But Iran ?
Analyzing the causes that led to today is fine but realistically all major escalations were done by Trump (and Israel... and also Iran not being truthful on its nuclear program)
- JCPOA unilateral exit (blindsiding Euros and Iran)
- IRGC put on the terrorist org list
- Soleimani assassination
- Israel's strike on the Iranian embassy in Damascus (without US approval, stated by both Israeli and US !)
- Rising Lion and decimation of IRGC chain of command
- The bombing on Fordow
Please tell me which action Obama or Biden took that is even remotely close to that because there is a solid track record of Ds doing everything they can NOT to have military action there so much that Nap has always hated Ds handling of Iran and he's likely on their payroll lol
- Obama signing of the JCPOA
- Several rounds of (failed) negotiations from 2021 to 2024 after the JCPAO exit made further agreements harder
- The prisonner exchanges in 2023 despite the Iranian plans to assassinate Pompeo
- It took France and English pressure for the US to back the IAEA resolution of last year's june 5th and Macron was telling Biden was stalling it
Once again, I'm fine with criticizing Ds but the chain of events bringing us to Rising Lion and Fordow bombing is absolutely not on them this time.
Obama put the West/Iran on the right path with JCPAO, it was not perfect but it was good enough as a start and should have led to continued efforts to improve it.
The current situations (including Ukraine) can even be argued to be a direct domino effect off Trump pulling out of JCPAO :
- It prevented Euros to negotiate with Iran because they were too scared of US sanctions if they did business
- It made Euros irrelevant in the grand scheme of things and gave Putin the evidence he needed that Euros were US lapdogs
- It put Iran's back against the wall, isolating it furthermore in the ME (it was at odds with Saudi Arabia already since 2016) and the world and it led to more and more sanctions on its economy
- Iran was basically pushed into Russia's arms (not that it needed that push but still, giving them options is always best)
- With an economy in ruins, Iranian officers became more easy to bribe which Mossad used to their advantage to Rising Lion's sucess
Obviously, not everything was that simple but this move created a rift that was totally unnecessary.
This might also explain things
Medvedev hinted at Iran already having nukes
King Kreole
natural blondie like goku
Good post. It seems pretty incontrovertible to me that Trump has been unequivocally worse than Biden/Kamala/Democrats on Iran, for the reasons you've outlined. The Soleimani assassination was the worst, riskiest foreign policy decision he made in his entire first term. But the issue of Iran is inextricably linked to the issue of Israel. You mention the Israeli strike on the Iranian embassy in Syria, with the note that it was done without (explicit) US approval, but Biden did nothing to reign them in at all. He didn't condemn the strikes, and spent America's international capital on making sure Israel was never held to account. Israel's unprovoked acts of aggression that have culminated in these Trump strikes are part of a clear, escalating through line of actions that were accelerating under Biden. Taken in totality, his Administration's subservience to the Israeli cause is as impactful as the things Trump did in bringing us to this point. Again, Trump is the primary actor to blame for the strikes because it was his fat finger that pushed the button, but the Biden Administration's handling of Gaza, Lebanon, Yemen, Syria, Saudi Arabia, their entire middle east strategy really has played a role in getting us to this point with Iran. It's possible to imagine a world where the Biden-Harris administration provided clear, moral leadership on this issue and credibly threatened Israel's genocidal aggression (thereby breaking the bipartisan consensus that Israel has been enjoying), leading to a change in the calculus on the Israeli side. But right now, they know that they will not face any consequences for these actions from either party, which is emboldening them to act in such an aggressive manner. The Biden Administration didn't do anything to re-establish Obama's alternative path.I have no problem with the criticism of Dem leadership, you can even find some in my posting history and I'm not even American. The sub is indeed sometimes circle jerky but we shouldn't fall in constant relativism either.
My issue with the Kamala/Biden hypotheticals is how can you say what they would have done if they didn't do it when they could ? Cricizing for their handling of Gaza, Lebanon or Yemen, sure. But Iran ?
Analyzing the causes that led to today is fine but realistically all major escalations were done by Trump (and Israel... and also Iran not being truthful on its nuclear program)
- JCPOA unilateral exit (blindsiding Euros and Iran)
- IRGC put on the terrorist org list
- Soleimani assassination
- Israel's strike on the Iranian embassy in Damascus (without US approval, stated by both Israeli and US !)
- Rising Lion and decimation of IRGC chain of command
- The bombing on Fordow
Please tell me which action Obama or Biden took that is even remotely close to that because there is a solid track record of Ds doing everything they can NOT to have military action there so much that Nap has always hated Ds handling of Iran and he's likely on their payroll lol
- Obama signing of the JCPOA
- Several rounds of (failed) negotiations from 2021 to 2024 after the JCPAO exit made further agreements harder
- The prisonner exchanges in 2023 despite the Iranian plans to assassinate Pompeo
- It took France and English pressure for the US to back the IAEA resolution of last year's june 5th and Macron was telling Biden was stalling it
Once again, I'm fine with criticizing Ds but the chain of events bringing us to Rising Lion and Fordow bombing is absolutely not on them this time.
Obama put the West/Iran on the right path with JCPAO, it was not perfect but it was good enough as a start and should have led to continued efforts to improve it.
The current situations (including Ukraine) can even be argued to be a direct domino effect off Trump pulling out of JCPAO :
- It prevented Euros to negotiate with Iran because they were too scared of US sanctions if they did business
- It made Euros irrelevant in the grand scheme of things and gave Putin the evidence he needed that Euros were US lapdogs
- It put Iran's back against the wall, isolating it furthermore in the ME (it was at odds with Saudi Arabia already since 2016) and the world and it led to more and more sanctions on its economy
- Iran was basically pushed into Russia's arms (not that it needed that push but still, giving them options is always best)
- With an economy in ruins, Iranian officers became more easy to bribe which Mossad used to their advantage to Rising Lion's sucess
Obviously, not everything was that simple but this move created a rift that was totally unnecessary.
If I'm ranking Presidential culpability for these strikes, it is inarguable that Trump is number 1, not least because he actually did the damned thing. But zooming out to do a systemic analysis of the broader issue, this is more a story of the bipartisan American foreign policy consensus being completely in the thrall of the Zionist cause/lobby and harboring insane anti-Iranian hysteria stemming from being embarrassed in 1979 than it is a story of Donald Trump taking some completely unique, idiosyncratic action like his tariff approach. You have senior Democratic advisors soft-cosigning Trump's actions because they all share the same Blob-originating mental illness. They're all glad Trump did this, they just can't say so out loud for partisan reasons, so they pivot to procedural issues.
the cac mamba
Veteran
what country do you live in?
King Kreole
natural blondie like goku
The People's Republic of China.
Piff Perkins
Veteran
Also worth noting that while Trump tore up the JCPOA, he was seemingly on the path to reviving his own version of it just a few months ago. Was it all a feint for Israel, or was it legit diplomacy? Who knows. But there was a clear path to some form of peace/compromise and he ripped it up. Again.
The JCPOA was a masterful diplomatic solution that prevented war, and will likely be the blueprint for whatever comes next time a sensible US president emerges (assuming no large scale US war right now).
The JCPOA was a masterful diplomatic solution that prevented war, and will likely be the blueprint for whatever comes next time a sensible US president emerges (assuming no large scale US war right now).
the cac mamba
Veteran
you were advocating to not vote for kamala, you piece of shyt. and i voted for her in a swing state