Old heads, is it true Reasonable Doubt...

[Mr. Negative]

When Pac & Big got knocked off, the game went through a depression.Puffy came on some "cheer up/let's make the music fun again" shiny suit shyt.

see this is the shyt why Sunshine got play and why I even mentioned it.

Everybody and their moms had one of those super flashy Fish Lens shiny suit videos.


And yeah, I don't understand why cats like to act like 95 and 98 is the same year, either.

 

[MooseMouthMthafuga]

Who gives a shyt what was being played on the west coast.Celly cel and mac mall got tick out there back in those days and both them nikkas wakk as hell

The world don't revolve around the west coast.I live in the midwest and knew who jay was off radio/videos and being a hip hop head.Anybody saying jay was a nobody in 96 was young as hell in 96 or running with a narrative.Nobody saying jay was a star he was an up n coming rapper in an era where hip hop was deep as hell with established acts of course he was at the bottom of the food chain but to say he was a nobody is a lie.Pac spent energy name dropping a so called 'nobody' and big collabed with a 'nobody' on several songs.

Pac name dropped Chino XL & Lil Cease, to


Big did a track with Lil Shawn



Even Jay admitted to being "lukewarm" at that time.

Of course nikkaz were aware of Jay in '96.

It's just that, outside of NY, nobody was really wowed, or checking for him like that

 

[intilectual recipricol]

All this time I've been thinking you was a east coast nikka

He's a fakket who wishes he was EC... an embarrassing c00n you thought he was EC cuz he's on the dikk of the east so hard...

 

[FloorGeneral]

Who gives a shyt what was being played on the west coast.Celly cel and mac mall got tick out there back in those days and both them nikkas wakk as hell

The world don't revolve around the west coast.I live in the midwest and knew who jay was off radio/videos and being a hip hop head.Anybody saying jay was a nobody in 96 was young as hell in 96 or running with a narrative.Nobody saying jay was a star he was an up n coming rapper in an era where hip hop was deep as hell with established acts of course he was at the bottom of the food chain but to say he was a nobody is a lie.Pac spent energy name dropping a so called 'nobody' and big collabed with a 'nobody' on several songs.

Lies. Celly Cel is ok (not great, but not wack), but Mac Mall was dope as shyt. I live in the Midwest too, probably not that far from you, and West Coast music was jumping more here than anything.

As far as RD and Jay, I don't know how ppl keep arguing, but the fact is that it simply wasn't on the radar like that. I don't know how I missed this thread the first time around (maybe I just ignored it cause I knew what was gonna happen), but Rekka's post sums it up perfectly:

RD was just another another good album that year and revisionist history by camel.

It was a dope debut and one of the best of 96, but there were MANY albums that cats were checking for over or in addition to RD.

IWW
AAOM
Makaveli
Beats Rhymes and Life
Atliens
The Coming
The Score
Hell on Earth
Ironman
Muddy Waters

I bought Reasonable Doubt early on (still have that copy somewhere too), and ALWAYS praised it, but (around my way) I was the exception, not the norm. I ended up buying it a second time when they reissued it with Can I Live II, and that reissue is all the proof you need that the album just didn't resonate like some want you to believe. First he reissues the album when his commercial success is booming with Vol. 2, then we all knew what he said on Momma Loves Me. When the artist himself is going to those lengths to get the album's name out there, then how can you argue the exact opposite? Makes no sense.

 

[Homeboy Runny-Ray]

Vol 1 put him in the game nationally tho, plus the feature on foxy's "I'll be". Vol 2 made him a superstar and birthed one of the best concerts ever! Hard Knock Life tour and Up In Smoke - GOAT hip hop tours.

lol @ "up in smoke".

Me & you definitely look through different scopes.

When Pac & Big got knocked off, the game went through a depression.Puffy came on some "cheer up/let's make the music fun again" shiny suit shyt.

Once that lil phase burned out, the game was voided..wide open.

Jay took it and ran with it....DMX...Even Ja Rule got a piece

reading this, it sounds like your scope is smaller than his.

borrow it breh.

Pac name dropped Chino XL & Lil Cease, to
Big did a track with Lil Shawn

thats cuz chino xl dissed pac first, and obviously he was beefing with cease.

2pac dissed jay-z first. not the other way around. its on record that pac knew jay was gonna be a problem.

lil shawn was down with jimmy henchman & them.

 

[dora_da_destroyer]

Yall are taking the term "nobody" too literally, nikkas just illustrating jay was not 00's jay, jay was not a pillar in the game in 96. That's what this thread was originally asking, a young cat born in 95 who has always seen jay as the king of rap couldn't fathom how he wasn't always a key figure. I wouldn't call him nobody back then, but if he never released another album no one woulda been like "OMG what happened to jay z". That's like if someone called big krit a nobody to the rap game 20 years from now, I mean, I think it's too strong a word, but I'd understand what people were trying to say when you compare him to those at the forefront right now.

 

[Homeboy Runny-Ray]

Yall are taking the term "nobody" too literally, nikkas just illustrating jay was not 00's jay, jay was not a pillar in the game in 96. That's what this thread was originally asking, a young cat born in 95 who has always seen jay as the king of rap couldn't fathom how he wasn't always a key figure. I wouldn't call him nobody back then, but if he never released another album no one woulda been like "OMG what happened to jay z". That's like if someone called big krit a nobody to the rap game 20 years from now, I mean, I think it's too strong a word, but I'd understand what people were trying to say when you compare him to those at the forefront right now.

people are indeed literal with these statements.

somebody in here tried to say chino xl was bigger. hell, this post right here, youre comparing jay-z to big krit.

and it shouldnt matter if he was a pillar in the game. it was his debut album as an independent artist. he had a heavier foot in the game than 2pac did on his debut - with a major. but let this board tell it, nobody would exist in 2020 if 2pac was still alive.

 

[MooseMouthMthafuga]

lol @ "up in smoke".







reading this, it sounds like your scope is smaller than his.

borrow it breh.

Holy Jimmy Hendrix, Batman!

Chords are being struck in here today

 

[dora_da_destroyer]

people are indeed literal with these statements.

somebody in here tried to say chino xl was bigger. hell, this post right here, youre comparing jay-z to big krit.

and it shouldnt matter if he was a pillar in the game. it was his debut album as an independent artist. he had a heavier foot in the game than 2pac did on his debut - with a major. but let this board tell it, nobody would exist in 2020 if 2pac was still alive.

No one compared krit to jay, stop

I really don't give a fukk about the pac arguments, you haven't seen that from me, and I also don't agree with them

And yes, it does matter if he was a pillar in the game because the fukking thread premise is asking just that. Dude said he can't understand how jay could've come out and not been a poppin and how rd wasn't considered classic when it dropped. There have been a million posts explaining why this happened, he was just another face in the crowd.

 

[THE MACHINE]

Great thread....for the people saying RD was hot back in '96, why doesn't Jay agree?

I gave you prophecy on my first joint, and y'all lamed out
Didn't really appreciate it, til the second one came out
So I stretched the game out, X'ed your name out
Put Jigga on top, and drop albums non-stop for ya, nigguh!



People fell in love with hard Knock Life and went back and revised history.

If the lyrics went:
I gave you prophecy on my first joint, but I sort of missed the mark
So I hit the booth again, then a nikka caught the spark

Everybody would be saying RD was a little bit off but he got rolling afterwards....jigga is masterful at marketing.

It's a dope album but people claiming RD is top 5 all time

 

[Detroit_blue]

top 5 hip hop album ever tho

 

[Homeboy Runny-Ray]

No one compared krit to jay, stop

YThat's like if someone called big krit a nobody to the rap game 20 years from now.

why you mention him then?

And yes, it does matter if he was a pillar in the game because the fukking thread premise is asking just that. Dude said he can't understand how jay could've come out and not been a poppin and how rd wasn't considered classic when it dropped. There have been a million posts explaining why this happened, he was just another face in the crowd.

he wasnt a pillar in the game but jay wasnt just another face in the crowd either.

when RD dropped he was seen as the next big thing and his album got the same reception as most other classic albums in the streets up top. it got a better reception than nas' IWW btw.

best real-time comparison to jay-z would be '96 master p, who also was doing big chit with his priority deal.
and jay had alot more mainstream shine than master p in '96, altho P prolly sold more.
edit: the source was hatin on P back then. lol. im glad benzino took that chit over not long afterwards.

oh yeah and just so ya know....ima dropp a huge gem on ya (those that have ears to hear, let them hear) ...."frank white" and jay had beef...in brooklyns finest, big not only went at pac but he went and jay too in the first verse...open ya ears...jay went at big too on that track...towards the end they didnt like each other...in life after "somebody gotta die" (jayson) is actually jay-z, (c-rock) was "frank white"......also i know ya cant understand but it gets deeper......the greatest of all time (in my opinion other than bin olu dara) big pop had a ghostwriterlet that one sinkin....go listen to them tracks and listen closely

edit : i will drop one clue... look up camron freestyle over lyrical excercise beat...in the very beginning, beans quotes big pop from the track (somebody gotta die) (beans and jay had problems then-this was towards the end of the rock days obviously) if you notice, cam paused for a sec in shock that beans understood that bar and said "you already know"........

yo.

you sure beans was going at jay?

he mightve been dissin jada.

Great thread....for the people saying RD was hot back in '96, why doesn't Jay agree?

I gave you prophecy on my first joint, and y'all lamed out
Didn't really appreciate it, til the second one came out
So I stretched the game out, X'ed your name out
Put Jigga on top, and drop albums non-stop for ya, nigguh!



People fell in love with hard Knock Life and went back and revised history.

If the lyrics went:
I gave you prophecy on my first joint, but I sort of missed the mark
So I hit the booth again, then a nikka caught the spark

Everybody would be saying RD was a little bit off but he got rolling afterwards....jigga is masterful at marketing.

It's a dope album but people claiming RD is top 5 all time

you seem to have misinterpreted that line.

hes talking about how the mainstream slept.

 

[dora_da_destroyer]

why you mention him then?






he wasnt a pillar in the game but jay wasnt just another face in the crowd either.

when RD dropped he was seen as the next big thing and his album got the same reception as most other classic albums in the streets up top. it got a better reception than nas' IWW btw.

best real-time comparison to jay-z would be '96 master p, who also was doing big chit with his priority deal.
and jay had alot more mainstream shine than master p in '96, altho P prolly sold more.
edit: the source was hatin on P back then. lol. im glad benzino took that chit over not long afterwards.

Point of reference, to let people understand how you can be known within the culture without necessarily being a staple act.

Jay was another face in the crowd, i don't know why you're trying so hard to push the narrative that he wasn't. He was another (good) rapper and nothing else. But dude put in work and by the third album was the man.

 

[JuvenileHell]

@Wacky D keeping this thread alive with his fukkery

 

[Homeboy Runny-Ray]

@Wacky D keeping this thread alive with his fukkery

playa please.

fallback jack.

Point of reference, to let people understand how you can be known within the culture without necessarily being a staple act.

Jay was another face in the crowd, i don't know why you're trying so hard to push the narrative that he wasn't. He was another (good) rapper and nothing else. But dude put in work and by the third album was the man.

a point of reference serves as a comparison.

im not pushing any narrative. in fact, the only thing i'd prefer to push concerning jay-z nowadays is his face.

he wasnt a mainstream star yet but he wasnt just some face in the crowd. he was huge in the streets of the east coast and had a big national hit, along with other forms of mainstream exposure. thats not just another face in the crowd. thats a big deal. when the 2nd album was getting ready to drop, people were looking for him to take over right then & there.