Older thread '20 NYK Off-season Thread

[Wargames]

That 6'7 220 lb. tank is not a SG

Yeah but imagining that tank going against most 6’5 SGs.

 

[RickyGQ]

How does it mean this? While yes Cole can push the tempo and shoot off the dribble... The crucial element here is turning him into LESS of a score first guard and more of a combo guard who takes what the defense gives him.
Be honest with yourself about Cole. He's supremely talented, but also extremely flawed. You're talking up his positives but completely ignoring his negatives. He was turnover prone in college and there's no reason to expect that to change with tougher competition. He can pass to the open teammate but doesn't pass a teammate open. His shot selection is sometimes basura and it reflects in his TS%. How do the Knicks mitigate his weaknesses as currently constructed?


I can too...I can also see him having a VERY up and down season on this team if he's expected to contribute right away with the downs being more glaring than the ups

Knicks need shooters no matter what tho

My argument for Cole is any pg we draft is going to struggle regardless and I’m comfortable with that as long as the organization feels like his upside is that real. I’m more in the camp of “RJ isn’t a lead guy on a elite team”. I think he’s a solid second banana/elite number 3 so i get wanting to keep shooting for the stars. But i just don’t want to do that at the expense of passing on sure bets even if their ceilings aren’t going to be as high.
My two routes for this offseason is either bottom out for a top pick and play all the young kids with some vets sprinkled into the bench like Taj, DJ Augustin etc... OR sign high level complimentary free agents like FVV and Gallo (or trading for Conley and signing gallo/bertans etc), compete and show a big time free agent we have something they can work with ala the nets.

 

[KnickstapeCity]

My argument for Cole is any pg we draft is going to struggle regardless and I’m comfortable with that as long as the organization feels like his upside is that real. I’m more in the camp of “RJ isn’t a lead guy on a elite team”. I think he’s a solid second banana/elite number 3 so i get wanting to keep shooting for the stars. But i just don’t want to do that at the expense of passing on sure bets even if their ceilings aren’t going to be as high.
My two routes for this offseason is either bottom out for a top pick and play all the young kids with some vets sprinkled into the bench like Taj, DJ Augustin etc... OR sign high level complimentary free agents like FVV and Gallo (or trading for Conley and signing gallo/bertans etc), compete and show a big time free agent we have something they can work with ala the nets.

Does that mean that Frank is getting traded to the Warriors?




Don't play with my feelings, breh.

 

[RickyGQ]

Honestly I don’t think the Suns give away #10 but offer it as a trade down with Oubre for the Knicks #8. Especially if they want to grab Toppin or Vassel if they fall. Same with the Jazz potentially trading Conley to Randle and swapping #23 for #27.

So the Knicks could add two rookies, and two good players. Plus they would still have 20 Million in cap space to go after someone like Bertans and say a random role player. I would trade down to 10 and grab Kira and with #23 take Bolmaro. The Knicks wouldn’t be the best 3 pt shooting team, but with Thibs as a coach we already knew that. What they are is a really good downhill/transition team that can play defense and has good if not great size at every position. They aren’t a playoff team but they could develop an identity.

Conley
RJ
Oubre
Bertans
Mitch

Bench
Kira
Frank
Knox
Bolmaro
Taj
DSJ
Braz

Both Conley and Oubre should be looked as potential long term pieces as well. Conley for a 2-3 year deal to ride out the last few years of his prime, and Oubre as a potential starting SF. Oubre isn’t great, but he doesn’t suck. He is a bit injury prone but next years draft is so wing heavy, if the Knicks get lucky he might be replaceable. Bertans is exactly the type of 3pt threat the Knicks need to compensate for the fact they aren’t a team trying to shoot 3’s. He’s the guy who stretches the floor. These are some quality vets joining the starting lineup, and youth making up the bench.

Kira is raw but with a few years behind Conley (one of the most underrated PG in the league before he got overpaid) there aren’t many better mentors. Also his range isn’t top #8 but top #10 isn’t as insane to take a risk.

Bolmaro at #23 is exactly around his mock range too. Knicks have really good Spanish league scouts. The guy who found KP is there. It’s one of if not the strongest Euro leagues too, he’s raw but is a baller, he just can’t shoot reliably.

If the Knicks luck up into one of the top 5 SF’s next year (and rumors already are they might throw all their assets to move up to try and get them) this is the type of team you bring that kid too, or you let Oubre and Conley expire and the Knicks have also 40 mil in cap space before they have to pay rookies Mitch and RJ.

Money’s off breh... trading Randle for Conley loses us 16 mill in cap space so that’s roughly 24 mill. Then trading for Oubre leaves us with about 9. Instead of Bertans we could probably sigh Melo or something and trot out a Conley, RJ, Oubre, Melo and Mitch lineup. Love that bench too. Maybe bring back Harkless since Balmero probably won’t come over until 2022 season.

 

[JMurder]

They need to put spacing around him like I said. He didn't have that at UNC. He'd have a secondary ball handler with R.J., he'd have a vertical spacer with Mitch, next we need a movement shooter at the 2 (Ellington is better than he played), and a stretch big at the 4 (Ibaka would be nice, with Knox backing him up). It would decrease his turnover and efficiency issues.

We don't have nobody that can really step into a three off a screen on ball it's sad. Our best guy might be Dotson there. That's why I'm high on players like LaMelo, Killian, Cole for this team, shot creation is desperately needed. Cole is mechanically sound as a pull up and spot up guy with a quick first step and nice strength for a PG.

I understand. I just get off the train after Killian

 

[RickyGQ]

Does that mean that Frank is getting traded to the Warriors?

Lol what? The tweet is about Mitch’s ig post that resembles Curry’s tweet from 2009.


Don't play with my feelings, breh.

 

[KnickstapeCity]

Damn it, man. @RickyGQ

 

[JMurder]

Yeah but imagining that tank going against most 6’5 SGs.

Facts

I don't understand why dudes are so resistant to this. Is it his height?

 

[Wargames]

Money’s off breh... trading Randle for Conley loses us 16 mill in cap space so that’s roughly 24 mill. Then trading for Oubre leaves us with about 9. Instead of Bertans we could probably sigh Melo or something and trot out a Conley, RJ, Oubre, Melo and Mitch lineup. Love that bench too. Maybe bring back Harkless since Balmero probably won’t come over until 2022 season.

You’re right..... Bertans is a big piece of that whole rebuild..... if we shipped DSJ out when we took Oubre back there would be enough space.

So let’s do that. Rumors are the Suns wanted to PG prospect too. Adding DSJ and Toppin could be a really good draft for them and they would still have enough to be a major player in FA.

Also Bolmaro might be open to coming to America. Him being a draft and stash is far from the worst thing though. No guarantee there will even be a 2021 NBA season.

Anyhow updated roster

Conley
RJ
Oubre
Bertans
Mitch

Bench
Kira
Frank
Knox
Bolmaro
Taj
Braz

 

[TOAD99]

Honestly I don’t think the Suns give away #10 but offer it as a trade down with Oubre for the Knicks #8. Especially if they want to grab Toppin or Vassel if they fall. Same with the Jazz potentially trading Conley to Randle and swapping #23 for #27.

So the Knicks could add two rookies, and two good players. Plus they would still have 20 Million in cap space to go after someone like Bertans and say a random role player. I would trade down to 10 and grab Kira and with #23 take Bolmaro. The Knicks wouldn’t be the best 3 pt shooting team, but with Thibs as a coach we already knew that. What they are is a really good downhill/transition team that can play defense and has good if not great size at every position. They aren’t a playoff team but they could develop an identity.

Conley
RJ
Oubre
Bertans
Mitch

Bench
Kira
Frank
Knox
Bolmaro
Taj
DSJ
Braz

Both Conley and Oubre should be looked as potential long term pieces as well. Conley for a 2-3 year deal to ride out the last few years of his prime, and Oubre as a potential starting SF. Oubre isn’t great, but he doesn’t suck. He is a bit injury prone but next years draft is so wing heavy, if the Knicks get lucky he might be replaceable. Bertans is exactly the type of 3pt threat the Knicks need to compensate for the fact they aren’t a team trying to shoot 3’s. He’s the guy who stretches the floor. These are some quality vets joining the starting lineup, and youth making up the bench.

Kira is raw but with a few years behind Conley (one of the most underrated PG in the league before he got overpaid) there aren’t many better mentors. Also his range isn’t top #8 but top #10 isn’t as insane to take a risk.

Bolmaro at #23 is exactly around his mock range too. Knicks have really good Spanish league scouts. The guy who found KP is there. It’s one of if not the strongest Euro leagues too, he’s raw but is a baller, he just can’t shoot reliably.

If the Knicks luck up into one of the top 5 SF’s next year (and rumors already are they might throw all their assets to move up to try and get them) this is the type of team you bring that kid too, or you let Oubre and Conley expire and the Knicks have also 40 mil in cap space before they have to pay rookies Mitch and RJ.

that Bolmaro dude

his herky jerky style sorta reminded me of Luka a bit


Not saying he’s that talented, but an interesting prospect. Will have to look into him more

 

[RickyGQ]

Facts

I don't understand why dudes are so resistant to this. Is it his height?

It’s a defense thing for me. I think he would be better suited guarding small forwards than shooting guards.
But i guess it’s a semantics argument. If you just break down positions to guards wings and bigs than RJ is a wing. Whether he’s paired with someone bigger or smaller than him is what we’re arguing i guess.

 

[RickyGQ]

You’re right..... Bertans is a big piece of that whole rebuild..... if we shipped DSJ out when we took Oubre back there would be enough space.

So let’s do that. Rumors are the Suns wanted to PG prospect too. Adding DSJ and Toppin could be a really good draft for them and they would still have enough to be a major player in FA.

Also Bolmaro might be open to coming to America. Him being a draft and stash is far from the worst thing though. No guarantee there will even be a 2021 NBA season.

Anyhow updated roster

Conley
RJ
Oubre
Bertans
Mitch

Bench
Kira
Frank
Knox
Bolmaro
Taj
Braz

You know who I’d like to throw some mid level money on? Harry Giles as a Mitch backup especially for inevitable nights he gets into early foul trouble.

 

[RickyGQ]

For the Kira heads

 

[Wargames]

You know who I’d like to throw some mid level money on? Harry Giles as a Mitch backup especially for inevitable nights he gets into early foul trouble.

I like that. Once again, not a horrible team and there is still upside on the roster. Also Mitch needs a decent backup

 

[momma]

This video highlighted the biggest issue with the Knicks swinging hard in FA every year: no star wants to join a team with an empty plate, even if it's New York. KD and Kyrie proved that last year, LeBron and Bosh snubbed them in 2010, and who knows how many other stars looked at NY and went nope. This team has zero continuity or culture and it's a media headache. Why would you want to come here when you can go to Miami and play for Pat and Spo, or either of the LA teams that have prestige running in their veins (Doc / West, Buss / Magic when Bron signed), or Brooklyn who's in the NYC market and has stayed competitive with less, or Toronto and GSW who are poised to accommodate a star and make another Finals run?

I don't want to hear about the Knicks trying to get star players right now, they need to focus on building a winning culture from the ground up, maintaining some continuity in the coaching staff and front office, and handing out smart contracts to great vets who can help you win games. I guarantee you that's a faster track to the playoffs and FA success than years of tanking because with New York all you need is 1/2 years of winning. Brooklyn literally showed the blueprint last year. This year's pool of FAs is very low/medium-heavy: Dragic, FVV, Gallo, Millsap, Ibaka, Favors, Harkless, Bogdan, Augustin, Bertans, Crowder, etc. I want to target a couple of those guys on nothing longer than 2/3 year deals or over 15-20 a year.