Older thread '20 NYK Off-season Thread

[nyknick]

We’re trash

OKC is mediocre

There’s a difference

OKC would love to be able to dump CP3 and Steven Adams without giving up assets. And be trash for 1 year instead of mediocre for another 3 years.

But it helps to have a GM with a vision without one you just end up being trash for all 3 years.

 

[JMurder]

Because it eats up huge amount of salary cap which we won't be able to use on players that have a future in this league. Or multiple, boatloads of picks and maybe even talent that can be acquired when taking on bad salaries from other teams.

Why wouldn't the Knicks accept picks in this deal?

Why are you trading for him then if you don't care about his ability to stay on the court? I thought the whole point was to have him improve the team significantly. A guy that couldn't play 60 games at 32 will not be able to play 82 games at 36 at a high level. And certainly not play anywhere close to his prime.

I already explained why.
A) To remove a non-compatible piece
B) To improve spacing on offense
C) To develop the younger guards (specifically RJ , Frank and DSJR
D) Hopefully to get all of the above to happen and make the Knicks appear to be a future winning situation even without CP3

Again what is being good?

Consistent playoff team with upside

Are we really still arguing about numbers that can be easily looked at and compared.

Randle is only guaranteed one more year at $23m (not $19m because of a 3rd year buyout bonus).

CP3 is guaranteed two more years at $41m and $44m.

No we won't waive Randle because he only has one more year remaining at much more reasonable money than what will be a 36 year old injury prone 6 foot point guard.

Your understanding of the contract is still flawed.

He's guaranteed 18.9 next season and 4 million the following season no matter what. It's not a buyout bonus, it's a clause that if the Knicks don't waive him, he will make 19.8 million. So they have to make the clear decision to waive him at the end of the season or before June 28th if they only want to pay $4 million. If the Knicks keep Randle until the end of next season, they're going to keep him the following season. They're not waiving him without clear incentive to do so. So you might as well Bank that he's going to make 19.8 million in 2021-22 if he's not traded.

Now, that doesn't really change your argument that much. Chris Paul's contract in that 30-year is definitely a lot more money than Julius randles. However, I'm of the opinion that Julius Randle does nothing for our future. He's not a piece that was brought in to help our youth. He's not a piece that was brought in to compliment our team direction. He's not even a piece that was brought in to build around, or maybe he was but we clearly see now that you do not build around Julius Randle. Julius Randle is just here and I don't really see the positive of having him here. He should be on a team that is already built to win and just needs a first option coming off of the bench. That is not in New York.

Chris Paul on the other hand, even with his exorbitant contract, would actually benefit a few things that the Knicks are trying to do. They need someone to help tutor our young point guards in Frank Ntilikina and and Dennis Smith Jr. They need someone to help RJ Barrett manage driving lanes and setting up teammates. They need somebody who can hit a three-point shot at a more consistent rate. They need to get rid of one of our paints cloggers between Marcus Morris and Julius Randle. Is this the best option? No probably not. But I think that it's definitely better than holding on to Julius Randle for two more years.

My only debate for your aversion to using up cap space to have an over 35 Chris Paul on the roster is that it doesn't matter. The Knicks only have Julius Randle, RJ Barrett, Kevin Knox, Mitchell Robinson, and Ignas Brazdeikas under contract that final season. Assuming you fill out that roster with vet min and young drafted players you're still way under the cap. The Knicks should be trying to develop their young guys into becoming stars, not signing middle of the road free agents to bug contracts anyway. And if we want a star in 2022, the road to there starts with making RJ great, turning Dennis or Frank into a starting PG, and getting value out of our draft picks

Edit: And as @ISO reminded me, you can offload a lot of early money on OKC to make up some of the difference in money paid. Of course that would make it less likely that the Knicks get a pick back.

 

[KnicksTape]

@KnicksTape is @CantStop's alias. He only logged in for the first time in about a year to vote on the WOAT poll. He has absolutely no shame.

Negative.

Moderators can do an IP check if they please. I’ve been here since 2012, mostly a lurker as I am on other forums. I plan to be more active. I’m happy with the future of this franchise as we have fired Fiz and it seems like we’re forming an identity now. I preach patience to my fellow Knick fans. Let’s give everyone on this team a clean slate with our new coach.

 

[JMurder]

Exactly.

We already lost this year by wasting our salary flexibility in order to chase mediocrity instead of acquiring picks.

What makes you think we didn't make signings to acquire picks in the first place?

 

[JMurder]

Also, please stop saying his contract is expiring next season. Whether you waive him or keep him, he is still owed money in 2021-22

 

[JMurder]

Switching lanes

 

[JMurder]

NBA Trade Machine - ESPN

If you're hand-wringing about money, this trade:

Gives us back 6 million in year one
Only adds 11 million (or 18 million if you think we're waiving Elfrid at the end of this season which we're definitely not) in year 2 My math is fukked up here somehow (my calculations below has us adding 13.75 million (or 20.75 if you think we're waiving Elfrid at the end of the year)
[Another scenario is the Knicks pick up Portis' second year and Trier's QO which the alternative would actually have us saving another 1-4 million if we traded instead]
And then adds 40 million in year 3 if you assume we are waiving Randle

Cap implications

Year One
106 million [or 100 million]
Year Two
96 million w/ Portis & Trier resigned [or 90 million]
92 million w/ Portis Option picked up [or 90 million]
76.25 million w/o Portis [or 90 million]
69.25 million w/o Portis & Payton waived b4 June 28 2020 [or 90 million]
Year Three
37 million w/ Randle [or 62 million]
22 million if you waive b4 June 28 2021 [or 62 million]

I would prefer this trade which has us taking on more money upfront but brings back a first and second rounder for guys who wouldn't be worth a first rounder

TradeNBA

Edited to reflect likely scenarios vs trade scenario

 

[NY's #1 Draft Pick]

7'3 guy shooting with range and volume>>the crepe p*ssyfooting around the three point line and shooting corner shots

Don't get the point of that tweet

We caping for KKKp now?

I thought we was all Knickstape?

 

[JMurder]

We caping for KKKp now?

I thought we was all Knickstape?

Some guys like to talk about other people's agendas but can't help but to expose their own. Took a post that was clearly meant to shyt on KP too go out of his way to shyt on Frank.

indeed

 

[NY's #1 Draft Pick]

New York Knicks on Instagram: “@frank_ntilikina went on and invited them out to a game too #ThisIsWhyWePlay”

Frank love the kids

 

[seemorecizzy]

Switching lanes

dont put dumb shyt like this fam lol

 

[ISO]

OKC would love to be able to dump CP3 and Steven Adams without giving up assets. And be trash for 1 year instead of mediocre for another 3 years.

But it helps to have a GM with a vision without one you just end up being trash for all 3 years.

Well Presti said CP3 ain’t available right now.

And it seems like OKC wants to have a competitive rebuild based on the pieces they have rather than being outright trash

 

[ISO]

We caping for KKKp now?

I thought we was all Knickstape?

Just stating facts it’s fukk KKKristaps all day

At the end of the day we got fleeced on that trade tho

 

[nyknick]

Why wouldn't the Knicks accept picks in this deal?

Presti has shown he's smart enough and not desperate to have to burn too many assets to dump CP3's contract. I'll have to research worst contracts with 3 years remaining to give you a proper example.

If Wall didn't have that extra year on his contract he would've been perfect to take on with multiple picks. How is Deion Waiter's contract? Also you can just be patient and wait for Igoudala type of contract dumps.

I already explained why.
A) To remove a non-compatible piece
B) To improve spacing on offense
C) To develop the younger guards (specifically RJ , Frank and DSJR
D) Hopefully to get all of the above to happen and make the Knicks appear to be a future winning situation even without CP3

A) As much as we hate him, Randle is not an abomination of a player that should be traded for the 2nd worst contract in the league. He's on a good contract and if he gets back to his NOP production, he can be traded for a net positive.

B) When we trade Morris for a 1st round pick that will open up a lot of space. Also a new GM/coach who is not beholden to Randle's success can sit him down and explain how we intend to play proper team basketball.

C) As @seemorecizzy already mentioned CP3 is a dirtbag. He's had issues with Blake, Rivers, Harden and all of that very publicly. Also DSJ spent much of this off-season training with CP3

D) With CP3 here you'll have to say goodbye to at least one of DSJ/Frank.

Consistent playoff team with upside

Best case scenario with CP3 is 7-8th seed, automatic first round eliminations and higher/worse draft picks. So just delaying the proper rebuild for 3 years.

Your understanding of the contract is still flawed.

He's guaranteed 18.9 next season and 4 million the following season no matter what. It's not a buyout bonus, it's a clause that if the Knicks don't waive him, he will make 19.8 million. So they have to make the clear decision to waive him at the end of the season or before June 28th if they only want to pay $4 million. If the Knicks keep Randle until the end of next season, they're going to keep him the following season. They're not waiving him without clear incentive to do so. So you might as well Bank that he's going to make 19.8 million in 2021-22 if he's not traded.

He's guaranteed $4 million for the 3rd year. After the 2nd year Knicks will waive him and owe him that $4 million which will be counted against the cap.

Why the fukk would Knicks pay him $19 million when they could just take a $4 million cap hit which will be roughly 3% of the cap. That's basically having to sign a vet minimum player instead of Reggie Bullock. Clear incentive to waive him is the possibility that he keeps playing like hot garbage.

While CP3 would be taking up 30% of the cap with his contract.

Now, that doesn't really change your argument that much. Chris Paul's contract in that 30-year is definitely a lot more money than Julius randles. However, I'm of the opinion that Julius Randle does nothing for our future. He's not a piece that was brought in to help our youth. He's not a piece that was brought in to compliment our team direction. He's not even a piece that was brought in to build around, or maybe he was but we clearly see now that you do not build around Julius Randle. Julius Randle is just here and I don't really see the positive of having him here. He should be on a team that is already built to win and just needs a first option coming off of the bench. That is not in New York.

CP3 also does nothing for our future. Picture top free agents hyped to commit long-term to a team with a 36 year old CP3 on his last legs

Only difference between Randle and CP3 is the fact that CP3 has an extra year on his contract, is 10 years older, will only get worse, will only get more injury prone, will be even more untradable, will cost us the possibility of acquiring better picks/assets and have us positioned worse in the draft.

 

[nyknick]

Well Presti said CP3 ain’t available right now.

And it seems like OKC wants to have a competitive rebuild based on the pieces they have rather than being outright trash

Because that's what a smart GM/team does. You hype up your players and increase their value. Unlike Knicks who straight shytted on Melo for a year and a half, completely devaluing him all while trying to trade him

Instead of increasing his trade value Phil was more concerned with winning the media war. They perpetuated/fabricated lies that he was a team cancer. Meanwhile KP loved playing with him and Lance ended up writing a love letter to him in Players Tribune . Then Mills took over and laughed publicly at his midnight workouts


While that's standard operating procedure for us, proper GMs 'leak' fluff pieces about how great players they want to trade are.

If OKC really wanted to be competitive they wouldn't have given away Jerami Grant for a pick and let Patterson walk.