Older thread '20 NYK Off-season Thread

[JMurder]

dont put dumb shyt like this fam lol

Why not

 

[storyteller]

CP3 is an interesting one. I think that type of clean up comes with the trade off that we'd win more games and be in a weaker position to pick top five. But then you think about the new lottery rules and that isn't as big a factor. It's also worth noting that you bring in CP3, I assume you're gunning to resign Mook and that's a big cap commitment over the next three years or so. So in terms of flexibility, you're counting on developing what you have and drafting well.

What CP3 could potentially mean to the team is pretty big though. A mentor for young guards, table setter for everyone and flipping him for Randle creates a much more balanced roster and skill distribution to work with. The risk, he's getting older and had a lot of money locked in. If he falls off a cliff, you're stuck with him a while.

I think I'd want another week or two with the current roster under Miller to really decide. It'll be easier to see if this team is still looking at a top five slot or risking slipping into the 6-10 range under Miller from there. If we're slipping anyway, then the CP3 idea starts to look more enticing. If we're still a bottom 5 range squad without him, I really want the chance to pair Cole or Edwards with Barrett (get ready for the Haliburton bandwagon otherwise). But then, if the Thunder compensated us for our troubles then it changes the equation again...

Idk fam...ask me again a week from now...right now I'm leaning toward standing pat and trying to turn Morris into a first and a young player while we see if there's anything out there for Randle, Ellington, etc. But I say that with the comfort of two months until the trade deadline. So no need to rush into anything. I think Morris could garner more interest the closer we get to the deadline and even some of these other vets might become worth something. My sleeper is Trier too. We've done that thing we do with devaluing young promising but flawed assets again, but he still might have some value as a great and efficient isolation scorer.

I'm still thinking full rebuild while we've got the chance.

 

[JMurder]

If Wall didn't have that extra year on his contract he would've been perfect to take on with multiple picks. How is Deion Waiter's contract? Also you can just be patient and wait for Igoudala type of contract dumps.


A) As much as we hate him, Randle is not an abomination of a player that should be traded for the 2nd worst contract in the league. He's on a good contract and if he gets back to his NOP production, he can be traded for a net positive.

You're responding to a point I'm not making. I agree that he's not a horrible player... But CP3 is still a better one. And in my trade scenario I'm not only trading Randle, but another non-compatible/redundant piece in Elfrid Payton. Two career negative long range shooters.

B) When we trade Morris for a 1st round pick that will open up a lot of space. Also a new GM/coach who is not beholden to Randle's success can sit him down and explain how we intend to play proper team basketball.

You're hoping for a lot. You have to hope at the end of the year at the earliest Dolan can find a competent GM. Then that "competent" GM has to hire a competent coach. Then you have to hope above all hope that Julius Randle is not only willing to listen to both, but is also capable of changing his entire approach to the game when he's never shown the inclination to do so before. If one of those hopes goes sideways, you're all supposition goes by the wayside. Worst case scenario I'm a CP3 acquisition is he becomes an average PG that we're over-paying for.

C) As @seemorecizzy already mentioned CP3 is a dirtbag. He's had issues with Blake, Rivers, Harden and all of that very publicly. Also DSJ spent much of this off-season training with CP3

You're naming Star players that he's beefed with on teams competing for chips. I'm looking to a team like the one he's on to see if he's being called a cancer or to see if he's not helping the young PG's there

D) With CP3 here you'll have to say goodbye to at least one of DSJ/Frank.

Unless you trade Elfrid for him

Best case scenario with CP3 is 7-8th seed, automatic first round eliminations and higher/worse draft picks. So just delaying the proper rebuild for 3 years.

Like you said BEST-CASE SCENARIO. And the hope is that if that team is that good with an aged CP3, they'll be that good without him with a grip of cap space when his contract is off the books.


He's guaranteed $4 million for the 3rd year. After the 2nd year Knicks will waive him and owe him that $4 million which will be counted against the cap.

Against the cap in the third year. You are assuming the Knicks will waive a 20 and 10 player to save 15.8 million instead of doing nothing so they can attempt to trade him in-season. You're assuming they're gonna want to pay him 4 million to go away instead of getting something in return for him.

Why the fukk would Knicks pay him $19 million when they could just take a $4 million cap hit which will be roughly 3% of the cap. That's basically having to sign a vet minimum player instead of Reggie Bullock. Clear incentive to waive him is the possibility that he keeps playing like hot garbage.

He won't

While CP3 would be taking up 30% of the cap with his contract.

Yep

CP3 also does nothing for our future. Picture top free agents hyped to commit long-term to a team with a 36 year old CP3 on his last legs

What top free agents are you looking at in 2020 or 2021 that you think we can reasonably get if our youngs don't make a leap that they never had under the Knicks in the last 20 years? Committing to a rebuild doesn't only mean having cap flexibility (which we don't have a lot of anyway) but also means committing to developing our young talent in a positive way. You're not developing Randle much more than what he is and he's not a veteran piece who would help the young players grow the way a Morris currently is.

Only difference between Randle and CP3 is the fact that CP3 has an extra year on his contract, is 10 years older, will only get worse, will only get more injury prone, will be even more untradable, will cost us the possibility of acquiring better picks/assets and have us positioned worse in the draft.

I understand the point you're trying to make but you're still misrepresenting the contract situation. Their contracts end the same year no matter what. Randle's 4 million is his third year and that would be 4 million against the cap. Also you can't make both arguments about him being worse and us winning more unless you say he'll have a positive impact on the locker room. Your arguments conflict

 

[No Homo]

No reason for you guys to be even entertaining or thinking of a CP3 trade
That will set your rebuild back another 3 years.
Just draft one of the 3 guards coming up this year.

 

[ISO]

No reason for you guys to be even entertaining or thinking of a CP3 trade
That will set your rebuild back another 3 years.
Just draft one of the 3 guards coming up this year.

We’re in position to draft one of them and I don’t see how it sets us back another 3 years

Randle for CP3 immediately improves the team

 

[qnsfinest]

I can’t co-sign no trade for CP, yes he’s a HOFer and legend. But he does nothing to help us other than bring leadership and mentorship

Without CP we’re a 17-23 win team fighting for the number 1 pick. With CP we win 35 games, still miss the playoffs and now are stuck with the 10th pick, that means no wiseman, edwards, melo.

If CP was in his prime, of course you jump all over the opportunity to get him. But not at this stage of his career. I wouldn’t be opposed to trading him for at the end of the season, but you can’t risk losing a top 3-5 pick for 35 wins.

 

[No Homo]

We’re in position to draft one of them and I don’t see how it sets us back another 3 years

Randle for CP3 immediately improves the team

Immediately its an improvement but it also takes away cap space which is another valuable asset. I know you wanna get rid of Randle but this isnt the way. Stay with the long term plan

And do you really think Sam Presti of all Gm's is gonna trade CP3 for Julius Randle and filler?
THeyre using him to mentor Shai

 

[JMurder]

CP3 is an interesting one. I think that type of clean up comes with the trade off that we'd win more games and be in a weaker position to pick top five. But then you think about the new lottery rules and that isn't as big a factor. It's also worth noting that you bring in CP3, I assume you're gunning to resign Mook and that's a big cap commitment over the next three years or so. So in terms of flexibility, you're counting on developing what you have and drafting well.

What CP3 could potentially mean to the team is pretty big though. A mentor for young guards, table setter for everyone and flipping him for Randle creates a much more balanced roster and skill distribution to work with. The risk, he's getting older and had a lot of money locked in. If he falls off a cliff, you're stuck with him a while.

I think I'd want another week or two with the current roster under Miller to really decide. It'll be easier to see if this team is still looking at a top five slot or risking slipping into the 6-10 range under Miller from there. If we're slipping anyway, then the CP3 idea starts to look more enticing. If we're still a bottom 5 range squad without him, I really want the chance to pair Cole or Edwards with Barrett (get ready for the Haliburton bandwagon otherwise). But then, if the Thunder compensated us for our troubles then it changes the equation again...

Idk fam...ask me again a week from now...right now I'm leaning toward standing pat and trying to turn Morris into a first and a young player while we see if there's anything out there for Randle, Ellington, etc. But I say that with the comfort of two months until the trade deadline. So no need to rush into anything. I think Morris could garner more interest the closer we get to the deadline and even some of these other vets might become worth something. My sleeper is Trier too. We've done that thing we do with devaluing young promising but flawed assets again, but he still might have some value as a great and efficient isolation scorer.

I'm still thinking full rebuild while we've got the chance.

Storyteller has spoken

 

[JMurder]

Immediately its an improvement but it also takes away cap space which is another valuable asset. I know you wanna get rid of Randle but this isnt the way. Stay with the long term plan

So you think Mills/Perry have a plan and we should stick with it. So then why fire them?

 

[seemorecizzy]

Why not

its stupid and misleading

 

[No Homo]

So you think Mills/Perry have a plan and we should stick with it. So then why fire them?

I completely forgot who's in charge over there
They need to go.

 

[JMurder]

I completely forgot who's in charge over there
They need to go.

 

[JMurder]

its stupid and misleading

I'm asking so you can expound on your opinions, not repeat them lol

 

[No Homo]

The risk, he's getting older and had a lot of money locked in. If he falls off a cliff, you're stuck with him a while.

I think I'd want another week or two with the current roster under Miller to really decide. It'll be easier to see if this team is still looking at a top five slot or risking slipping into the 6-10 range under Miller from there. If we're slipping anyway, then the CP3 idea starts to look more enticing. If we're still a bottom 5 range squad without him, I really want the chance to pair Cole or Edwards with Barrett (get ready for the Haliburton bandwagon otherwise). But then, if the Thunder compensated us for our troubles then it changes the equation again...

Edwards/Cole/Melo and Barrett in the backcourt for the next 5-8 years or cp3 for 3?
Thats how I look at it.

 

[seemorecizzy]

I'm asking so you can expound on your opinions, not repeat them lol

lol
malone hasnt coached long enough to calculate any type of data worth reporting.
whether good or bad