So you're really giving Kast an 11 year run and then saying Wu Tang is forever. Where was Wu Tang in comparison to Kast in 2004. And don't even give me that "well, Kast had a crossover audience" because Wu had fans all over the world and they crossed over too largely in part to the solo success of Method Man.
OutKast vs. Mobb Deep | By The Numbers
- Thread starter Young/Nacho\Drawz
- Start date
So you're really giving Kast an 11 year run and then saying Wu Tang is forever. Where was Wu Tang in comparison to Kast in 2004. And don't even give me that "well, Kast had a crossover audience" because Wu had fans all over the world and they crossed over too largely in part to the solo success of Method Man.
ZEB WALTON
ayo! - BEZ
Of course its all hip hop bro. Im not the one getting upset over someone else opinion.
Im stating my opinion and yor telling me im wrong.
Tlc was on laface right? Are they not an hip hop influenced rnb group at the core?
I told you several times i enjoy atliens and aquemini
But there is a difference between artists
Because i wasnt in that kast thread acting like kast were the shyt cuz they album sold ten million copies. That was you. Was that album hip hop? Youd say yes... id say no.
Agree to disagree. I got my tooth pulled during this shyt im mad aggy so bez no ill
Will.
I still didnt call you a fakkit tho and u lied on me
Lol... dont go there breh. Another day ill explain
BmoreGorilla
Veteran
You gotta understand how Dre was even introduced to this thread. Kast was called alternative hip hop. I asked what made them alternative. I was told it was becuz they pulled from different musical genres equally. I called bullshyt becuz that’s what makes hip hop what it is in the first place.@SirBiatch posted a video of Organized Noize talking about how they used live instrumentation in their music. But they interpolated in a way that it couldn’t be called soft and R&B. They said they realized they were doing the exact same thing as Dre. So I asked what makes them alternative and not Dre. All I was told was I should know the difference and nobody has yet to answer my question
That was damn near a week and 9 pages ago and that’s how we got to this point
They modeled the hook after Curtis Mayfield. It seems pretty obvious.
Anyway, peep game breh.
This is kinda confusing because the "Christmas version" and the album single are exactly the same (minus a couple minor differences) despite the wording.
The "Christmas version" has all the Christmas references intact....the hook says "Player's Ball is happening, on Christmas Day"....the album version says "Player's Ball is happening, on e're day".
Aside from that (and a couple lines being edited) it's literally the exact same song. Same lyrics, hook, beat, etc.
So the "Christmas version" that blew up is virtually identical to the album one. It's why it says Original. The other one is a remix.
As far as the time line, it goes....Rico Wade (if I remember correctly) kept pestering LA Reid to sign Outkast. They perform for him, he gives them the
because by his own admission he knew nothing about hip-hop. And they didn't really know how to structure songs. They just went in his office spitting mad bars.Months pass, they work on their skills, do shows, etc. and LA Reid comes and sees them at a local hip-hop show case. He's impressed with how much they improved, but still unconvinced. He gives them one song on the Christmas sampler. They do "Player's Ball" and it blows up, then he OK's their album.
This isn't directed at you specifically, because I don't even know who is arguing what any more....but their placement on a Christmas R&B album had nothing to do with their sound. To LA Reid they were firmly in the hip-hop lane and he was throwing them a bone by even giving them a spot on that album. He did the same thing (although obviously, they were already established) with Tribe on the "Boomerang" soundtrack.
Fred.
Of course its all hip hop bro. Im not the one getting upset over someone else opinion.
Im stating my opinion and yor telling me im wrong.
Tlc was on laface right? Are they not an hip hop influenced rnb group at the core?
I told you several times i enjoy atliens and aquemini
But there is a difference between artists
Because i wasnt in that kast thread acting like kast were the shyt cuz they album sold ten million copies. That was you. Was that album hip hop? Youd say yes... id say no.
Agree to disagree. I got my tooth pulled during this shyt im mad aggy so bez no ill
Will.
I still didnt call you a fakkit tho and u lied on me
That's all you had to say and keep it moving. All that extra crap you've been spewing in this thread wasn't even necessary.
I'm telling you were wrong, because you presented said opinion as a fact.
TLC is still an R&B act though. You've pretty much said as much, so you throwing in this "are they not a Hip Hop influenced R&B group at the core" now actually hurts your argument. Why? It went from Kast being thrown on an R&B group's song to now all of a sudden they are a "Hip Hop influenced R&B group at the core". Yeah, everybody knows Left Eye was the rapper in the group, which added Hip Hop appeal.
I really don't care who called me what, I do know you co-signed the insult though, so it's all the same. I was talking to BOTH of you.
ZEB WALTON
ayo! - BEZ
A simple answer imo would be dre makws hardcore gangsta music bro.You gotta understand how Dre was even introduced to this thread. Kast was called alternative hip hop. I asked what made them alternative. I was told it was becuz they pulled from different musical genres equally. I called bullshyt becuz that’s what makes hip hop what it is in the first place.@SirBiatch posted a video of Organized Noize talking about how they used live instrumentation in their music. But they interpolated in a way that it couldn’t be called soft and R&B. They said they realized they were doing the exact same thing as Dre. So I asked what makes them alternative and not Dre. All I was told was I should know the difference and nobody has yet to answer my question
That was damn near a week and 9 pages ago and that’s how we got to this point
Ill say it this way.
Which album would my mom (white cac) prolly pick if she heard eithers say... first wo albums.
Chronic or outkast. Id think kast. Cuz its a way more accessible listen. Its more with the culture of old soul n rnb imo while dre might use the beats, the lyrics are 10x more explicit.
To me kast is the down south tribe with the laface twist.
I just couldnt understand why everyone going at wacky cause i agree with him. Sadly all us minus justcking think mobb deep was better and yet we all fighting.
ZEB WALTON
ayo! - BEZ
You dont know when to quit breh
See you say it hurts my argument but at the same time you say they ARE and rnb group.
Because again... YOU missed my point on TLC and Laface in that they dabbled with hip hop even tho theybwere pretty much an rnb label. It was only natural that kast took on a “more rnb sound” being on laface. Tlc was the opposite.
Mind you that example was one in a list of 6 i used to show they rnb so i dont see how TLC being an rnb group with a rapper makes any difference. They still rnb and kast was still put on with rnb acts and prolly was performing with them which equals EXACTLY what wacky said... they were marketed toward that demographic leading to higher sales and more
Exposure than mobb deep could ever dream of getting.
I'm gonna have to stop you on that one. Chronic is far more accessible than Kast. That's like one of the biggest Hip Hop albums ever. More so than any other album, non- Hip Hop publications have it is one of the greatest albums ever and rank it pretty high. White America loves Chronic. If any album is go to album for white folk in regard to Hip Hop it's Chronic.
La Face had nothing to do with Kast's sound and the fact that you think they did shows you know nothing about La Face. Kast and Goodie are the few acts on the label that didn't have songs written and produced or co-written and co-produced by Babyface or LA. The remix to "Jazzy Belle" is like the only record they touched.
ZEB WALTON
ayo! - BEZ
I disagree with your chronic assessment. Whole heartedly.
And if you think laface gave kast free reign and didnt influence them at least a little because they didnt write their music i have a few dreams for sale.
TLC was not the opposite. TLC took on a more R&B sound that headed more into the direction of what they were doing with Toni Braxton. Left Eye was featured less with each album. Songs were more in line with Babyface's sound with songs like "Red Light Special" and "Diggin' On You".
Kast did not head into La Face territory until you get to songs like "Liberation" where neither Dre or Big even rapped, but sang. Stankonia explored it more. Love Below is where it was far more prevalent. Speakerboxxx was more in line with classic Kast.
This does not equal what Wacky said. He tried to say that Kast inherited Arrested Development's and PM Dawn's audiences.
BmoreGorilla
Veteran
If we talking subject matter yea Dre was more explicit. But I just left the gym and decided to listen to SPCM and it’s not like
Kast was on some alternative shyt. They were talking about selling and using drugs, fukking bytches and packing heat in first person. Tribe was never like that. And the production was way more similar to the Comin Out Hard album by 8ball&MJG. I think the fact they were on LaFace was irrvelevant becuz it’s obvious LaFace was trying to stretch into hip hop
You're dreams have been sold to the highest bidder then.
Kast started to produce more and more of their albums. That's pretty much free reign. The label didn't believe in "Elevators". Kast went to the DJ's themselves. It took off and proved LA Reid and them wrong. From that point on, they never doubted Kast's choices:
8. La Face Records didn’t like “Elevators (Me & You)”: Dre and Big weren’t “worried” about perception, but “the label was,” Big told Spin. “They didn’t even like ‘Elevators.’ They were like, ‘Y’all crazy!’ We said, ‘F--k that shyt,’ and took it to the radio station against everybody’s wishes and it blew up. From that point on, L.A. Reid let us pick all our singles.” The track became their highest-charting song at the time, peaking at No. 12 on the Hot 100.
11 Things You Might Not Know About Outkast's 'ATLiens'
Keep speculating, and I'll keep dropping the facts.
ZEB WALTON
ayo! - BEZ
Oh i agree. Its not thatbthey were soft.. they had just as much content as the next gangsta group but i still think they occupied that lane and they werent quite as “brash” as their contemporaries (especially as time went on.. spcm was their “rawest” album imo).
Let me just say this.
I LOVE OUTKASTS RNB shyt or whatever else yall wanna call it. I kinda think they did it best. I just thought they came thru as kinda like ... “safer”? Idk if thats the right word so i dont see them in same light as say a biggie or even wutang using rnb hooks n shyt.
ZEB WALTON
ayo! - BEZ
“The label was”
Ok bro looks like we back to square one cause you keep telling me a fact in a sentence and then use that fact to justify your point
My point: “laface was a rnb label that marketed their hip hop in an rnb way”
You: “laface didnt like elevators and kast pushed it and it blew up. So they let kast pick they singles. THAT MEANS THEY HAD NO SAY IN THE PRODUCT”
you been doing that all thread. Thats what the news does dont do that breh