Paul Pierce attempts to explain why Lebron isn’t a top 5 player

[ISO]

There is also the fact that Jordan played in an era that should have limited his statistics for his positon but he still put up crazy numbers. I can't even imagine what he'll do in today's NBA of no handchecking, little resistance for perimeter players attacking the basket, incredibly spacing and the new defensive 3 second violation rule which even makes it easier.

What else is there to say my man? I think its obvious Jordan was comfortably a better player. Have a good night.

This guy is such an idiot. MJ benefitted from his era tremendously.

In the 80’s he played in a fast paced league with no zone defenses with some of the most “inflated” stats of All-Time. He was able to hero ball to gaudy stats for years until his supporting cast developed and he got put in a system. All these young skilled guys like Tatum, Ingram, Doncic, and Booker would eat more then for the simple fact of the illegal defense rule that would allow them to play one-on-one. Harden would literally feast. Durant would be unstoppable.

In the 90’s as he aged the game slowed down to a crawl. The league as a whole was older than ever and watered down from expansion. I just watched the 1998 Finals. It’s a snail pace which benefits an older player like him. He was able to catch in the midpost and continuously go one-on-one with Russell and Hornacek on him. In the first quarter alone their were three illegal defense calls.

U also need to stop framing the pace and space era which is only the last 5 years or so as the norm in a guy like LeBron’s career.

MJ benefited tremendously from his era in practically all facets from style of the game, to league being taken out tape delay, to marketing boom.

 

[KnickstapeCity]

I guess that fakkit didn’t get the whole load.



Damn at least wait til Bron retires.



Somebody tag that obsessed Pierce stan and tell him to come get his mans.

 

[Field Marshall Bradley]

(1) Okay fair enough

(2) There is no advanced stat or metric that isn't cumulative that suggests Lebron is "eye to eye" with Jordan. Never mind the fact that PER and Box plus minus both put Jordan ahead inthe regular (despite accounting for his Wizards years as a damn 40 year old man) . And of course in the Post season also.

VORP (Value over replacement player) and Win Shares are both cumulative stats that favor Lebron because he's played more games and for longer. They are added to each other not averaged out.

Besides, no one knows the constructs in which these advanced stats compliment for, how something like quality of teammates or minutes played for example impact them. The advanced stats will have you believe Chris Paul is the best point guard ever when he's nowhere near that. He wasn't even better than Kevin Johnson was. The only advanced stats I like are GameScore and True shooting because they are less subjective even though the latter has its problems, using it across eras.

So , if we then stick to the 5 basic statistical categories, Jordan is a better player across the board , using GameScore:

All you have to do is go to basketball reference and use "GameScore" of "40" which shows all time great statistical games: https://basketball-reference.com/play-index/pgl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=career&year_min=1947&year_max=2020&is_playoffs=E&age_min=0&age_max=99&season_start=1&season_end=-1&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&c2stat=game_score&c2comp=gt&c2val=40&order_by=pts…

Jordan is miles ahead of Lebron. Gamescore explained : https://nbastuffer.com/analytics101/game-score/

Being as objective as possible, there is no player in the modern era of basketball who is even in the same stratosphere in filling up the box score, CONTRARY to popular belief that some Lebron fans wrongly think its him. Him being the best "all round" and all this junk.

So Jordan is ahead in box score, he is ahead in non-cumulative catch all advanced stats like PER and Box plus/minus. He is a better offensive and defensive player. In his first 9 years he already surpassed all of Lebron's entire career.

There is also the fact that Jordan played in an era that should have limited his statistics for his positon but he still put up crazy numbers. I can't even imagine what he'll do in today's NBA of no handchecking, little resistance for perimeter players attacking the basket, incredibly spacing and the new defensive 3 second violation rule which even makes it easier.

What else is there to say my man? I think its obvious Jordan was comfortably a better player. Have a good night.

I hope you're still in high school with this bullshyt ass post

 

[Field Marshall Bradley]

This guy is such an idiot. MJ benefitted from his era tremendously.

In the 80’s he played in a fast paced league with no zone defenses with some of the most “inflated” stats of All-Time. He was able to hero ball to gaudy stats for years until his supporting cast developed and he got put in a system. All these young skilled guys like Tatum and Booker would eat more then for the simple fact of the illegal defense rule that would allow them to play one-on-one. Harden would literally feast.

In the 90’s as he aged the game slowed down to a crawl. The league as a whole was older than ever and watered down from expansion. I just watched the 1998 Finals. It’s a snail pace which benefits an older player like him. He was able to catch in the midpost and continuously go one-on-one with Russell and Hornacek on him. In the first quarter alone their were three illegal defense calls.

U also need to stop framing the pace and space era which is only the last 5 year or so years as the norm in a guy like LeBron’s career.

MJ benefited tremendously from his era in practically all facets from style of the game, to league being taken out tape delay, to marketing boom.

good post

 

[FS4LFE]

Media members be bout to cry if you dont dikkride Bron

The same way some of y’all do when it comes to MJ. This works both ways.

 

[Tres Leches]

Bron fans can’t be happy with a top ten mention




They so insecure they need that #1-5 spot or they get mad

 

[SAINT]

I guess that fakkit didn’t get the whole load.



Damn at least wait til Bron retires.



Somebody tag that obsessed Pierce stan and tell him to come get his mans.

the knicks are 126 - 284 in the past 5 years. lucky for you i ignored this season.

that's a .31 win percentage.

 

[Greenhornet]

that post off the first page with the lebron graphics actually pads the point that he's not top


he played like 7 seasons longer than half of the list and still isnt even top
playoff points just show that he's been there more and still lost

I will never understand how if Wilt can be dominant... and Bill beat his ass and is considered better because of it
how is Lebron regarded as great when he's a loser like wilt but not as good ... that shyt doesnt make sense

Lebron can grab all the stats like big O ... who isnt regarded as shyt sadly
but he doesnt close or win games, thats not his role. He's not built to win ... he's basically a bigger stronger magic without the competitive edge
just more speed, strength and durability. He's one of the top but he's not seeing true killers on the basketball court ... its not even a debate its a reality ... none of us could exist and that doesnt change the fact that lebron hid, ran and lost. Other cats on this list, pulled up, mashed, and retired either early or on top. For the same sake of people loving Lebron for being a nice guy and doing off court shyt, is also the same reason why he lacks killer instinct on the court. Lebron has never initiated a rivalry or set out to destroy anyone. He just plays a good game, internalizes his anger if he loses and then silently tries to hide off, into a better situation. You lowkey should just have a cutoff limit on how much you can speak about if you never watched basketball. Lebron know's he's great and is in the era of 100s of millions of dollars and lifetime Billion dollar deals. He's super smart but not 100% of one thing or the other. These other nikkas I grew up watching were getting knocked unconscious and fukking hated eachother over like 750k damien lillard makes larry bird's career earnings in one year ... even if he gets hurt 10 games into the season logically you cant blame them for not playing hard.


It's like if I started producing and using youtube to dig up classic samples and russian records and shyt from my home
I cant really compare myself to nikkas in 1991 who flew to Russia and dug through record shops...transported like 30 home
and created classic music and won awards, its so far removed from what created it ... that you cant compare that shyt.

 

[Trece]

My beef ain't with someone who says Lebron is second best overall. My beef is when someone acts like it's blasphemy to not have him as the second best player of all time. Lebron has done nothing to separate himself from Kareem, Magic, Shaq, Kobe, Duncan, Bird, Wilt, or Russell. He hasn't dominated his era with titles, with stats, so how is it a lock that he's the second best ever.

My problem is he lost Hella finals and chased rings by creating super teams

Media has gassed him so high that he started believing his own hype and now he created a PR firm called clutch sports to artificially create a phony debate that he has a case for GOAT..

You really gonna leap frog him over guys with 5 titles, Magic, Duncan and Kobe and Kareem with 6 titles..

shyt is laughable

 

[murksiderock]

(1) Okay fair enough

(2) There is no advanced stat or metric that isn't cumulative that suggests Lebron is "eye to eye" with Jordan. Never mind the fact that PER and Box plus minus both put Jordan ahead inthe regular (despite accounting for his Wizards years as a damn 40 year old man) . And of course in the Post season also.

VORP (Value over replacement player) and Win Shares are both cumulative stats that favor Lebron because he's played more games and for longer. They are added to each other not averaged out.

Besides, no one knows the constructs in which these advanced stats compliment for, how something like quality of teammates or minutes played for example impact them. The advanced stats will have you believe Chris Paul is the best point guard ever when he's nowhere near that. He wasn't even better than Kevin Johnson was. The only advanced stats I like are GameScore and True shooting because they are less subjective even though the latter has its problems, using it across eras.

So , if we then stick to the 5 basic statistical categories, Jordan is a better player across the board , using GameScore:

All you have to do is go to basketball reference and use "GameScore" of "40" which shows all time great statistical games: https://basketball-reference.com/play-index/pgl_finder.cgi?request=1&match=career&year_min=1947&year_max=2020&is_playoffs=E&age_min=0&age_max=99&season_start=1&season_end=-1&pos_is_g=Y&pos_is_gf=Y&pos_is_f=Y&pos_is_fg=Y&pos_is_fc=Y&pos_is_c=Y&pos_is_cf=Y&c2stat=game_score&c2comp=gt&c2val=40&order_by=pts…

Jordan is miles ahead of Lebron. Gamescore explained : https://nbastuffer.com/analytics101/game-score/

Being as objective as possible, there is no player in the modern era of basketball who is even in the same stratosphere in filling up the box score, CONTRARY to popular belief that some Lebron fans wrongly think its him. Him being the best "all round" and all this junk.

So Jordan is ahead in box score, he is ahead in non-cumulative catch all advanced stats like PER and Box plus/minus. He is a better offensive and defensive player. In his first 9 years he already surpassed all of Lebron's entire career.

There is also the fact that Jordan played in an era that should have limited his statistics for his positon but he still put up crazy numbers. I can't even imagine what he'll do in today's NBA of no handchecking, little resistance for perimeter players attacking the basket, incredibly spacing and the new defensive 3 second violation rule which even makes it easier.

What else is there to say my man? I think its obvious Jordan was comfortably a better player. Have a good night.

It isn't obvious when you can point out shyt like this, that's already been pointed out:

Career Traditional Statline
(regular season)
Mike: 30.1/6.2/5.3/2.3/0.8
.497/.327/.835
LeBron: 27.1/7.4/7.4/1.6/0.8
.504/.344/.735
(playoffs)
Mike: 33.4/6.4/5.7/2.1/0.9
.487/.332/.828
LeBron: 28.9/8.9/7.1/1.8/1.0
.491/.332/.743
Career Highs, Traditional
(Mike reg. season)
37.1/8/8/3.2/1.6
(Mike playoffs)
43.7/7.9/8.5/2.8/2.3
(LeBron reg season)
31.4/8.6/10.6/2.2/1.1
.567/.406/.780
(LeBron playoffs)
35.3/11.3/9/2.3/1.8
.565/.411/.806

Career ORtg/DRtg
(regular season)
Mike: 118/103
LeBron: 116/104
(playoffs)
Mike: 118/104
LeBron: 116/102

Career Highs
(Mike) 125/100; 127/101 (playoffs)
(LeBron) 125/97; 128/99 (playoffs)

PER/TS/WS48
(regular season)
Mike: 27.9/.569/.250
LeBron: 27.5/.586/.235
(playoffs)
Mike: 28.6/.568/.255
LeBron: 28.3/.579/.244

Career Highs
(Mike reg season)
31.7/.614/.321
(Mike playoffs)
32/.602/.333
(LeBron reg season)
31.7/.649/.322
(LeBron playoffs)
37.4/.668/.399

 

[murksiderock]

@viktordoomsecretwars

Show me where you see this huge gap at. If you say scoring, LeBron in the regular season averages two more assists than the three point scoring advantage; Mike's career high playoff average came in a 3-game series, not only can you find a comparable 3-game stretch for Bron, Mike's next highest playoff average is only about 1.4 higher than Bron's highest...

Mike is the most prolific wing scorer ever, so if you want to give him that, cool. There isn't a substantial gap between the two there, and there is no substantial gap anywhere else...

This is the shyt I'm talking about, the shyt where y'all act as if Mike is blowing the doors off Bron, isn't validated in numbers----->I didn't see Bulls Mike, so all I have to go on is video and stats. Nothing I've seen on video supports that there is this substantial gap either, so if your stance is, I just had to be there to see him in real time, I'll give you that. Maybe I'll never be able to conceive it, because nothing I see tells me Mike is just far and away ahead of Bron...

And since we'll never see them go H2H, it's either I take your word or draw an assumption based off of what I don't see. But your claim that he shyts all over Bron in the metrics isn't validated by anything, unless your primary argument is scoring, at which case, the margin isn't really significant...

I'm done with it though chief, all the info is there for people to make they own determinations. I'm cool leaving it at they both have a case, and if the balance tips in Mike's favor because of chips, I'm cool with that too. But nothing supports that he was far and away a greater player than Bron, and if the reason I can't tell is because I didnt see Mike in real time, it ain't like I can go back and make myself 10-15 years older to watch him in the moment. My opinion on it really can't be changed, and again my opinion ain't that LeBron should be a unanimous #1, it's that his case is as strong as anyone and there is no significant gap between he and Mike...

I been arguing with you dudes the last 6 weeks the doc been out, way more than I normally would have. My case is rested g, I'm off that!

 

[Torrential]

Bron is not top 5 .

 

[murksiderock]

that post off the first page with the lebron graphics actually pads the point that he's not top


he played like 7 seasons longer than half of the list and still isnt even top
playoff points just show that he's been there more and still lost

I will never understand how if Wilt can be dominant... and Bill beat his ass and is considered better because of it
how is Lebron regarded as great when he's a loser like wilt but not as good ... that shyt doesnt make sense

Lebron can grab all the stats like big O ... who isnt regarded as shyt sadly
but he doesnt close or win games, thats not his role. He's not built to win ... he's basically a bigger stronger magic without the competitive edge
just more speed, strength and durability. He's one of the top but he's not seeing true killers on the basketball court ... its not even a debate its a reality ... none of us could exist and that doesnt change the fact that lebron hid, ran and lost. Other cats on this list, pulled up, mashed, and retired either early or on top. For the same sake of people loving Lebron for being a nice guy and doing off court shyt, is also the same reason why he lacks killer instinct on the court. Lebron has never initiated a rivalry or set out to destroy anyone. He just plays a good game, internalizes his anger if he loses and then silently tries to hide off, into a better situation. You lowkey should just have a cutoff limit on how much you can speak about if you never watched basketball. Lebron know's he's great and is in the era of 100s of millions of dollars and lifetime Billion dollar deals. He's super smart but not 100% of one thing or the other. These other nikkas I grew up watching were getting knocked unconscious and fukking hated eachother over like 750k damien lillard makes larry bird's career earnings in one year ... even if he gets hurt 10 games into the season logically you cant blame them for not playing hard.


It's like if I started producing and using youtube to dig up classic samples and russian records and shyt from my home
I cant really compare myself to nikkas in 1991 who flew to Russia and dug through record shops...transported like 30 home
and created classic music and won awards, its so far removed from what created it ... that you cant compare that shyt.

Terrible logic, only real similarity between LeBron and Wilt is they both ran up against dynasties that impeded them from winning more titles...

The "LeBron is Wilt" take is such an embarrassing, lazy take:

•Bron won his 3rd title in Year 13 and was the best player on each championship run

•Wilt one two titles by Y13, two titles total, was only the best player for the first, and was done

•Wilt doesn't have the consistency of raising his game in the postseason the way LeBron does, not even close; if Wilt played today yall would call him a stat padder and it would fit him way more than it fits Bron

All that said, all this stuff was known about Wilt, and at the time if his retirement and many years afterwards, people STILL argued he was better than Bill----->there was far from uniformity on Bill being greater than Wilt...

 

[ISO]

that post off the first page with the lebron graphics actually pads the point that he's not top


he played like 7 seasons longer than half of the list and still isnt even top
playoff points just show that he's been there more and still lost

I will never understand how if Wilt can be dominant... and Bill beat his ass and is considered better because of it
how is Lebron regarded as great when he's a loser like wilt but not as good ... that shyt doesnt make sense

Lebron can grab all the stats like big O ... who isnt regarded as shyt sadly
but he doesnt close or win games, thats not his role. He's not built to win ... he's basically a bigger stronger magic without the competitive edge
just more speed, strength and durability. He's one of the top but he's not seeing true killers on the basketball court ... its not even a debate its a reality ... none of us could exist and that doesnt change the fact that lebron hid, ran and lost. Other cats on this list, pulled up, mashed, and retired either early or on top. For the same sake of people loving Lebron for being a nice guy and doing off court shyt, is also the same reason why he lacks killer instinct on the court. Lebron has never initiated a rivalry or set out to destroy anyone. He just plays a good game, internalizes his anger if he loses and then silently tries to hide off, into a better situation. You lowkey should just have a cutoff limit on how much you can speak about if you never watched basketball. Lebron know's he's great and is in the era of 100s of millions of dollars and lifetime Billion dollar deals. He's super smart but not 100% of one thing or the other. These other nikkas I grew up watching were getting knocked unconscious and fukking hated eachother over like 750k damien lillard makes larry bird's career earnings in one year ... even if he gets hurt 10 games into the season logically you cant blame them for not playing hard.


It's like if I started producing and using youtube to dig up classic samples and russian records and shyt from my home
I cant really compare myself to nikkas in 1991 who flew to Russia and dug through record shops...transported like 30 home
and created classic music and won awards, its so far removed from what created it ... that you cant compare that shyt.

He’s the All-Time leader in playoff points and top 5 in points per game overall and in his era nobody has won as much as him. He has the most wins, highest win %, and most Finals MVP’s since he was drafted.

How does a guy with the most playoff gamewinners and highest elimination game points per game not close.

U haters are a different breed

 

[Black_Panther_JS]

Nevermind HOF Tony Parker

Nevermind HOF Ginobili

C'mon breh they're only HOFers cuz they played on the Spurs, just like Draymond is gonna be a HOFer

Why mention glorified Role Players like they're DWade