Peter King: GMs hesitant on mobile QBs

[FTBS]

What do you mean "What hype machine?" ?! You made my point for me with the part I bolded. Dudes can put up insane numbers and win games IN COLLEGE by doing different things than what is required to put up huge insane numbers and win games in the NFL. But they get hyped anyway.

Tebow, Manziel, RGIII, and Cam Newton are all recent first round picks who were insanely successful in college largely due to their ability to run. Sure they put up great passing numbers too, but their other abilities made it a lot easier for them and could mask their deficiences passing. Cam is the only one of those 4 whose passing is even close to his running, and even he has never won anything meaningful in the league. This year doesn't count because the whole offense around him is trash. But even when it wasn't, he still hasn't elevated them to any new heights like he was able to in college. Because, again, the two games are played differently.

I mean what I said, what hype machine has ever been created for a guy largely because he can run? That was the basis of my post. If that's not what you meant (even though that's exactly what you said) then fine but that is what I was responding to. Most players, in most sports, are able to mask certain deficiences at lower levels and they end up getting exposed when it comes to making that transition to the pros. Once again this is not limited to running QBs.

 

[Supa]

Bottomline, at the point where young NFL qbs meet struggle as do MOST young NFL qbs, it's the mobile qbs only whose style that gets criticized, even when proven that they don't get the "tar beaten out of them" anymore than a struggling young pocket passer.

Plus "mobile" qb's only get 1-3 years and they're done with little hope of finding back up positions. Check David Carr's Houston stats and tell me how he lasted so long with them plus got to back up Eli for years? Joey Harrington too. I was watching the Bears/GB game and couldn't believe I saw Clausen on the sidelines but VY and Pryor aren't on a team. If EJ doesn't get a back up position

 

[resurrection]

I mean what I said, what hype machine has ever been created for a guy largely because he can run? That was the basis of my post. If that's not what you meant (even though that's exactly what you said) then fine but that is what I was responding to. Most players, in most sports, are able to mask certain deficiences at lower levels and they end up getting exposed when it comes to making that transition to the pros. Once again this is not limited to running QBs.

Of course that's true.. I agree, for instance a lot of scat backs are unstoppable in college but tank in the NFL because they lack the size to do things other RBs can do. But QB is undeniably the most important position on the field, the most impact on a team's success, the one given the most credit for success and the most blame for failure. You simply can't be a consistently great team in the NFL without a consistently good or great QB. It just doesn't happen. So the position itself is more scrutinized than other positions

 

[FTBS]

Of course that's true.. I agree, for instance a lot of scat backs are unstoppable in college but tank in the NFL because they lack the size to do things other RBs can do. But QB is undeniably the most important position on the field, the most impact on a team's success, the one given the most credit for success and the most blame for failure. You simply can't be a consistently great team in the NFL without a consistently good or great QB. It just doesn't happen. So the position itself is more scrutinized than other positions

And none of this addresses your fallacious assertion that a hype machine has been created for QBs largely because they can run.

The position is scrutinized and in turn hyped more than any other. This whole thing comes back to the fact that a pocket passer gets to fail on his own. His shortcomings have no bearing on the next guy. Meanwwhile a more mobile guy's failures somehow reflect on the next mobile guy. That's the issue, not the gap between college and pros or the importance of the QB or the scrutiny of the QB position.

 

[King Poetic]

THESE GM'S AND OWNERS ARE NOTHING BUT UNDERCOVER

 

[NYC Rebel]

And none of this addresses your fallacious assertion that a hype machine has been created for QBs largely because they can run.

The position is scrutinized and in turn hyped more than any other. This whole thing comes back to the fact that a pocket passer gets to fail on his own. His shortcomings have no bearing on the next guy. Meanwwhile a more mobile guy's failures somehow reflect on the next mobile guy. That's the issue, not the gap between college and pros or the importance of the QB or the scrutiny of the QB

Bingo

 

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

The bottom line is that the primary role of the NFL QB is to deliver the ball, mainly from the pocket, to open receivers. Necessary skills to accomplish this include: understanding the playbook inside and out, reading defenses, quickly going through the progression, being able to see the open guy, making the right decision of where to go with the ball (or to just throw it away or take a sack), and accurately delivering the ball.

There are many places throughout that chain where the play can break down for the QB. Maybe he is good at lots of things but panics in the pocket and/or lacks the proper footwork leading to bad pocket presence (RGIII). Maybe he has a tendency to not see open guys (Ben Roethlisberger). Maybe he is the perfect physical specimen but lacks accuracy or touch (Christian Hackenberg). Maybe he has everything else you look for but regularly makes bad decisions with the ball (Jay Cutler).

The problem with a lot of these mobile QBs being drafted now is not they are "mobile". Mobility in and of itself is never a bad thing. It helps any QB -- AS LONG AS they already have the skills necessary to succeed if you were to take the mobility away. Russell Wilson, Aaron Rodgers, and Andrew Luck are mobile QBs. But they have all the other skills necessary so the mobility just makes them better.

In college, a lot of QBs eat off their mobility but at the same time it masks their deficiencies in the areas necessary to succeed as an NFL QB because the college game is different. But because they were SO successful and SO hyped, teams are afraid to pass on these guys, knowing they lack certain skills, because they don't want to be the team that passed on a future star (even if the possibility is remote).

It may be for others, but to me it's not even a race thing. Johnny Manziel and Tim Tebow are two QBs who would never have been half the players they were in college without their running ability. They got drafted high because of the hype, and then Tebow was exposed. Manziel hasn't been yet, and as much as I love him for elevating my school to new heights, the odds are against him too. I will say he has much better arm talent than he is given credit for and is deadly accurate. But I'm not sure he possesses the decision-making ability required because he is so used to relying on his scrambling and/or throwing it up to Mike Evans.

The NFL game has changed in a lot of ways, but one thing that will probably never happen is "running QBs" who lack pocket passing skills surpassing the guys that do have those skills at an elite level.

This is no type of revelation. No QB who lacks passing skills will make it in the NFL, "running QB" or not. Mobility has nothing to do with it. If you can't pass, you can't pass, and thus won't last. This is common sense and really didn't need to be posted.

 

[L@CaT]

Russel Wilson Played in a Pro System at NC State and Wisconsin

While the other mobile quarterbacks have pretty much all played in Spread Systems


Thats the Primary Difference


If you are a HS Quarterback Prospect with thoughts of Going to the NFL, stay away from the Spread Option College Teams and stick to schools that run with a Pro System

USC obviously being the Best one

 

[resurrection]

This is no type of revelation. No QB who lacks passing skills will make it in the NFL, "running QB" or not. Mobility has nothing to do with it. If you can't pass, you can't pass, and thus won't last. This is common sense and really didn't need to be posted.

But it does need to be posted, because folks are still not seeing the correlation between their favorite beloved "mobile QBs" and lack of passing skill. It SHOULD reflect on the "next guy" unless the next guy could succeed as a pocket passer without his running skills. But those guys (Wilson, Luck, Rodgers) don't get categorized as "mobile QBs" because they can play the position well without that mobility - they just happen to have it. Kaepernick, RGIII, Vince Young, Tebow, etc. have proven that they can't, and Manziel probably will prove it sooner than later. If "the next guy" can pass well on his own merits without a spread system with wide open guys streaking through the secondary and/or the defense scared to death of his mobility, he won't get that label, thus he won't be subject to the scrutiny.

 

[iceberg_is_on_fire]

Russel Wilson Played in a Pro System at NC State and Wisconsin

While the other mobile quarterbacks have pretty much all played in Spread Systems


Thats the Primary Difference


If you are a HS Quarterback Prospect with thoughts of Going to the NFL, stay away from the Spread Option College Teams and stick to schools that run with a Pro System

USC obviously being the Best one

This is true. Things that required progression.

 

[Master Teacher]

But it does need to be posted, because folks are still not seeing the correlation between their favorite beloved "mobile QBs" and lack of passing skill. It SHOULD reflect on the "next guy" unless the next guy could succeed as a pocket passer without his running skills. But those guys (Wilson, Luck, Rodgers) don't get categorized as "mobile QBs" because they can play the position well without that mobility - they just happen to have it. Kaepernick, RGIII, Vince Young, Tebow, etc. have proven that they can't, and Manziel probably will prove it sooner than later. If "the next guy" can pass, he won't get that label, thus he won't be subject to the scrutiny.

All those guys you name play nothing like each other

and also have had more success than guys like Jay Cutler and Carson Palmer, and the rest of the league

Outside of Brady, Manning, Rogers, and Brees

the rest of his pocket QBs have done nothing and are trash

so what's the difference

 

[resurrection]

All those guys you name play nothing like each other

and also have had more success than guys like Jay Cutler and Carson Palmer

And you make my point for me again. Their styles are not really that similar, no, but you know what they have in common? They had great success in college because they could dominate running the ball, which opened up the game for them to throw as well. Then when they made it to the league and had to be a passer first and foremost, the world laughed at them.

And lmao @ any of the guys I listed being more successful than Jay Cutler or Carson Palmer - are you high? Maybe Kaep because he has made deep playoff runs, but once teams adjusted to his running, he is just another guy.

 

[Master Teacher]

Kaepernick's team as winning record Drew Brees' team does not

Kaepernick was one game removed from the super bowl last year and played better against the seahawks than Peyton Manning who stunk up the joint

 

[Jesus Shuttlesworth]

But it does need to be posted, because folks are still not seeing the correlation between their favorite beloved "mobile QBs" and lack of passing skill. It SHOULD reflect on the "next guy" unless the next guy could succeed as a pocket passer without his running skills. But those guys (Wilson, Luck, Rodgers) don't get categorized as "mobile QBs" because they can play the position well without that mobility - they just happen to have it. Kaepernick, RGIII, Vince Young, Tebow, etc. have proven that they can't, and Manziel probably will prove it sooner than later. If "the next guy" can pass well on his own merits without a spread system with wide open guys streaking through the secondary and/or the defense scared to death of his mobility, he won't get that label, thus he won't be subject to the scrutiny.

What about "pocket passers" who didn't have it? Ryan Leaf, Tim Couch, Kyle Boller... Why didn't the NFL talk shying away from pocket passers after those busts? If a guy is lighting up college football at a flawless pace, who's to say they can't pass until they get exposed in the NFL?

You pretend race doesn't matter but you're living in fantasy land or not being honest with yourself. When they say "running QB" they mean black QB.

 

[Master Teacher]

And you make my point for me again. Their styles are not really that similar, no, but you know what they have in common? They had great success in college because they could dominate running the ball, which opened up the game for them to throw as well. Then when they made it to the league and had to be a passer first and foremost, the world laughed at them.

And lmao @ any of the guys I listed being more successful than Jay Cutler or Carson Palmer - are you high? Maybe Kaep because he has made deep playoff runs, but once teams adjusted to his running, he is just another guy.

RGIII is in his third year and was rookie of the year has been to the playoff as many times as Cutler

Kaep stopped running they didn't adjust first of all, I don't know why the stopped running the read option in the first place NO ONES EVER STOPPED IT

his team still has a winning record, Drew Brees team doesn't

Kaepernick is his third year and nearly went to the super bowl

Carson Palmer has never been close to super bowl, this is the first year it looked like he could do something in the playoofs and he gets hurt

All those guys you mention never played on teams as good as Culter or Carson, except for Kaep and he nearly made it to the super bowl