Shaq gave him the nickname The Truth for a reason, and he guarded the best offensive player of the other team
I think Bron, Bird, KD, Baylor, and Dr. J are undeniable. That already pushes him out of the top-5 before you get to Havlicek, who surpassed Pierce on basically everything unless you want to consider him a SG or just don't think the '70s count. Kawhi is only 29 and already has more All-NBA selections and more FMVPs than Pierce. Not to mention two DPOY awards, 6 All-Defensive team selections, an All-Star MVP and three top-5 finishes in MVP voting including a 2nd and 3rd. (Pierce almost went his entire career without making top-10 in MVP voting.) Kawhi has proven he can score just as well as Pierce while being >>>>>>>>> on the defensive end. The only thing Pierce has on Kawhi is longevity and that's only a matter of time....but honestly I'd put Kawhi ahead even if he retired next year. Pippen has 3 more All-NBA teams while Pierce has 3 more All-Star appearances, but Pippen was top-5 in MVP voting twice and has 10 All-Defensive selections while Pierce has a FMVP. To me the biggest difference is that Pippen was a more dominant defender (top-4 in DPOY voting 5 times including 2nd-place twice) than Pierce was a dominant scorer (once was 3rd in scoring and otherwise never better than 5th), AND Pippen was a more important playmaker than Pierce. So his signature skill was more dominant and he was better all-around too. The arguments for 'Melo and 'Nique could go either way.
Pierce is nowhere near top 5 SF and it's not a diss to him to say that Only Boston homers think he is which is fine support your squad but be realistic.
I agree with you about Kawhi except with longevity. Longevity is why I have Pierce ahead. But you're kinda assuming longevity for Kawhi but based on his past I think it's a lot more likely he falls off of a cliff soon than him playing into his late 30s.
Even if he falls off a cliff he already has more All-NBA selections, more All-Defensive selections, more top-5 MVP finishes, more Finals MVPs, more All-Star MVPs....all that "longevity" for Pierce wasn't years where he was top-10 or even top-15 in the NBA, so I don't count it for much.
To be fair, how many seasons has Kawhi TRULY been a top 10/15 player himself? This may be the wrong argument anyway, because I'm actually a lot lower on Kawhi than most are.
In 2016 Kawhi finished #2 in MVP voting. He's consistently been a solid top-10 player every year since then except for the one he missed with injury. That's 5 seasons and counting. Paul Pierce doesn't have a strong case for top-10 in any season. He has a few years where you could make a borderline case, but it's hard to say he was ever even a top-5 forward at any point. Mostly he was a very solid player in the top 15 range with a good mentality who brought it when it mattered.
Im taking Pierce over Melo no questions Pierce vs Nique is a good argument actually, Nique was a freak of nature on top of his incredible scoring ability who never really had elite teams while Pierce was just an unstoppable skilled scorer as well despite the lack of athletcism, Pierce 3 ball might put him ahead of Nique for me tho if im starting a team also Nique never won shyt gotta see how the rest of the roster look Pierce vs Scottie is we will never truly know how good Scottie was but what i DO know is Pierce aint gonna sit out of a game cause of migraines and sub himself out for Toni Kukoc to hit the last shot as great a defender Scottie was give me PIERCE all day Also no Dr J? So yeah Pierce is borderline top 5 depending on how you wanna see him vs Nique or The Doc
Pierce isn't borderline Top 5, there's no way you think he's a historical peer to Erving... Also, I think we do know how good Scottie Pippen was. We had a small sample size of him as a #1, he was good enough to to take a team a game within the ECF, so I think if there was more time as a #1, you can say he coulda been the best player on a Final Four team... Pierce was the best player on a Final Four team... Also with Scottie, he was probably best suited as a career #2, the role he played in Chicago, then he went to Houston and was the third best player on the team, despite being younger than both Barkley and Olajuwon. So I think its fair to say Pippen had a ceiling, there are clearly guys who you could put around him who were better than him, he was always more suited to a role where he wasnt the best player... Scottie and Pierce are similar, I'm not as high on Scottie as other people. Scottie isn't a Top 5 three either, he's basically the black Havlicek, except Havlicek distinguishes himself from Pippen with performances in The Finals that Pippen never matched, and Pippen played in six fukking Finals so the opportunity was there to show another level of greatness... So Pippen has a ceiling, we know how good Pippen was. He's the black Hondo, mostly everything Hondo was but lesser on the bigger stage. Pierce and Pippen are virtually equal, Pip coulda had Truth's career if he was in Truth's situation and both were always more suited to be in that #2 role...
