Problems with the "free public college" plans

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

HBCU's would also be pretty much wiped out.

a lot of them are private though...but they'd b hurting

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

making public college free is super affordable idk why you keep talking about how many colleges we have. it's still affordable

you have still failed to provide any evidence that suggests it would be unaffordable. i take it you don't have any idea how these programs work.
it trips me out all these guys who says free public college and universal health care would be disasters yet there are poorer countries that have both and are doing just fine

We can "afford" anything. We're the world's reserve currency right now.

Thats not the point.

Its the fact that several schools are ALREADY facing budget crises because of funding issues.

How do you explain that to students who go to places like this?

Chicago State University's Future Uncertain Amid Budget Impasse

 

[Tate]

HBCU's are struggling to stay afloat as it is, most are private, if you have the option of going to a free state school than why would anyone enroll in private HBCU's? They may get funded but enrollment levels will eventually come to the decision that there is no need for many of them to stay open.

I agree with Clyburn in this instance.

No, most hbcu's are public, though it's basically 50-50. However it's like a 75-25 split on students in public vs private.

Regardless that's a retarded arguement. A lot of states heavily subsidize in-state students for public universities, using this logic that also should drive private colleges out of business. It hasn't

 

[Deutsche Bank]

Eliminate competition in higher education because you are barely employable and fiscally irresponsible, brehs.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

No, most hbcu's are public, though it's basically 50-50. However it's like a 75-25 split on students in public vs private.

Regardless that's a retarded arguement. A lot of states heavily subsidize in-state students for public universities, using this logic that also should drive private colleges out of business. It hasn't

for someone in economics, you're not being honest here.

You would close a significant number of schools if all publicly funded schools could not charge their students tuition

 

[Aufheben]

We can "afford" anything. We're the world's reserve currency right now.

Thats not the point.

Its the fact that several schools are ALREADY facing budget crises because of funding issues.

How do you explain that to students who go to places like this?

Chicago State University's Future Uncertain Amid Budget Impasse

you were just crying about the costs and now that's not that point but ok.

yeah and these budget crises are the result of budget CUTS. states every where are cutting back on education funding and schools have to raise tuition to make up for it.
all this means we need MORE funding.

there are important problems with free public college but you haven't brought any up and they have nothing to do with affordability. i don't even think you understand what you're talking about here.

first off, to subsidize tuition for all public college students right this minute it would cost $60-80b which is cheap. why would any colleges need to be closed? what does "geography" have to do with it? how is this a "gamble"?
yeah, college enrollment will likely increase once we have free public college, but what is your evidence that we can't afford it like much poorer nations do?

you just throwing random shyt out there without any research or evidence to back up your points.
yes there will have to be considerations for america specifically, and 1+1=2.

but i haven't seen any coherent argument that the obstacles to having free public college have anything to do with economics or logistics. just politics.

 

[Aufheben]

for someone in economics, you're not being honest here.

You would close a significant number of schools if all publicly funded schools could not charge their students tuition

what the fukk are you even talking about here

the schools charge tuition and the government pays it. jesus

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

you were just crying about the costs and now that's not that point but ok.

yeah and these budget crises are the result of budget CUTS. states every where are cutting back on education funding and schools have to raise tuition to make up for it.
all this means we need MORE funding.

there are important problems with free public college but you haven't brought any up and they have nothing to do with affordability. i don't even think you understand what you're talking about here.

first off, to subsidize tuition for all public college students right this minute it would cost $60-80b which is cheap. why would any colleges need to be closed? what does "geography" have to do with it? how is this a "gamble"?
yeah, college enrollment will likely increase once we have free public college, but what is your evidence that we can't afford it like much poorer nations do?

you just throwing random shyt out there without any research or evidence to back up your points.
yes there will have to be considerations for america specifically, and 1+1=2.

but i haven't seen any coherent argument that the obstacles to having free public college have anything to do with economics or logistics. just politics.

1. Government loans aren't helping. They're guaranteed funds for schools. No one addresses this.

2. Colleges would be closed because many of them have sunken costs in terms of investments they have yet to pay off as well as increased resources they've paid with money they anticipated coming in. Many of them aren't clearing these massive margins you think they are. Revenues at schools are rather thin.

3. Geography matters. A lot of public schools are in places away from major cities. You start closing down schools, you put burden on other places to meet that enrollment demand....which themselves due to hampered funding start instituting enrollment caps and importing students to get additional money


4. The estimates are off with how Sanders wants to earn that money. First its a wall street speculation tax. Then its a increase on "billionaires" then its a tax increase on everyone...where is this money coming from? And how long? 10 years? Forever? Dude is just dropping voodoo numbers out here. On top of that fact that none of this addresses capping tuition or any of the enterprising aspects that have made US Universities world leading institutions.

5.

 

[Tate]

for someone in economics, you're not being honest here.

You would close a significant number of schools if all publicly funded schools could not charge their students tuition

Subsidizing public universities hasn't driven private universities out of the market. Regardless, I don't care about that anyway. If we need more schools we can build more schools, not that difficult to comprehend. It may surprise you to learn that many people who go to private schools wouldn't be swayed by cheaper or free public schooling.

1. Government loans aren't helping. They're guaranteed funds for schools. No one addresses this.

2. Colleges would be closed because many of them have sunken costs in terms of investments they have yet to pay off as well as increased resources they've paid with money they anticipated coming in. Many of them aren't clearing these massive margins you think they are. Revenues at schools are rather thin.

3. Geography matters. A lot of public schools are in places away from major cities. You start closing down schools, you put burden on other places to meet that enrollment demand....which themselves due to hampered funding start instituting enrollment caps and importing students to get additional money


4. The estimates are off with how Sanders wants to earn that money. First its a wall street speculation tax. Then its a increase on "billionaires" then its a tax increase on everyone...where is this money coming from? And how long? 10 years? Forever? Dude is just dropping voodoo numbers out here. On top of that fact that none of this addresses capping tuition or any of the enterprising aspects that have made US Universities world leading institutions.

5.

Lmao hold up you think that free college literally means that universities stop charging tuition? Are you fukking retarded?

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

what the fukk are you even talking about here

the schools charge tuition and the government pays it. jesus

It seems you don't know anything about education policy in the USA.

Research the "Bennett Hypothesis"

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/11/03/education/edlife/catching-up-on-the-bennett-hypothesis.html?_r=0

It explains this in detail.

Free money for students, backed by government loans, have exploded college tuitions.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

Subsidizing public universities hasn't driven private universities out of the market. Regardless, I don't care about that anyway. If we need more schools we can build more schools, not that difficult to comprehend. It may surprise you to learn that many people who go to private schools wouldn't be swayed by cheaper or free public schooling.



Lmao hold up you think that free college literally means that universities stop charging tuition? Are you fukking retarded?

Universities have to effectively stop charging tuition. Thats what happens.

You want streamlined, first-world cost efficiencies?

Thats what happens.

Just dumping the sticker on the government doesn't change that.

 

[Tate]

Universities have to effectively stop charging tuition. Thats what happens.

You want streamlined, first-world cost efficiencies?

Thats what happens.

Just dumping the sticker on the government doesn't change that.

This is peak nap here brehs we can't go any higher

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

This is peak nap here brehs we can't go any higher

You want free public college.

So who gets stuck paying this ghost number of tuition then?

And how do you address tuition increases?

Oh...and you don't want schools to close?

So how do you address all of these strains?

Only in your world view do you get to input all these variables into a box and none of the characteristics of the box, ever change.

No wonder economics is the "dismal science", laden with ideologues suffering from "Physics Envy"

 

[Aufheben]

1. Government loans aren't helping. They're guaranteed funds for schools. No one addresses this.

2. Colleges would be closed because many of them have sunken costs in terms of investments they have yet to pay off as well as increased resources they've paid with money they anticipated coming in. Many of them aren't clearing these massive margins you think they are. Revenues at schools are rather thin.

3. Geography matters. A lot of public schools are in places away from major cities. You start closing down schools, you put burden on other places to meet that enrollment demand....which themselves due to hampered funding start instituting enrollment caps and importing students to get additional money


4. The estimates are off with how Sanders wants to earn that money. First its a wall street speculation tax. Then its a increase on "billionaires" then its a tax increase on everyone...where is this money coming from? And how long? 10 years? Forever? Dude is just dropping voodoo numbers out here. On top of that fact that none of this addresses capping tuition or any of the enterprising aspects that have made US Universities world leading institutions.

"Colleges would be closed because many of them have sunken costs in terms of investments they have yet to pay off as well as increased resources they've paid with money they anticipated coming in. Many of them aren't clearing these massive margins you think they are. Revenues at schools are rather thin. "

again what research is this based on that free public college = mass school closings. if your point is that we need to increase funding then we are in agreement.

"Geography matters. A lot of public schools are in places away from major cities. You start closing down schools, you put burden on other places to meet that enrollment demand....which themselves due to hampered funding start instituting enrollment caps and importing students to get additional money"

again what research is this based on that free public college = mass school closings

"The estimates are off with how Sanders wants to earn that money. First its a wall street speculation tax. Then its a increase on "billionaires" then its a tax increase on everyone...where is this money coming from? And how long? 10 years? Forever? Dude is just dropping voodoo numbers out here. On top of that fact that none of this addresses capping tuition or any of the enterprising aspects that have made US Universities world leading institutions."

i'm not talking about sander's plan and your thread isn't even about that. this is about free public college in general. to me that means tuition is virtually 0. and we can even talk about living grants and things like that in addition to tuition subsidies. we can talk about different ways to fund it but that's largely political.

we have the money, we can afford it and the obstacles are more politics than economics or logistics-- these are my main points. there are other legit objections to free public college but they don't conflict with what i've just laid out. unless you have a serious, evidenced-based argument against this we can end this conversation here

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

"Colleges would be closed because many of them have sunken costs in terms of investments they have yet to pay off as well as increased resources they've paid with money they anticipated coming in. Many of them aren't clearing these massive margins you think they are. Revenues at schools are rather thin. "

again what research is this based on that free public college = mass school closings. if your point is that we need to increase funding then we are in agreement.

Its been explained. The explosion of schools public and private, have allowed universities to expand more program offerings and types of graduate schools etc.

You put those under public management of funds, then you limit the number of schools who can provide those offerings.

Here's how many colleges have closed in the past 25 years

www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2014-04-14/small-u-s-colleges-battle-death-spiral-as-enrollment-drops

"Geography matters. A lot of public schools are in places away from major cities. You start closing down schools, you put burden on other places to meet that enrollment demand....which themselves due to hampered funding start instituting enrollment caps and importing students to get additional money"

again what research is this based on that free public college = mass school closings

"The estimates are off with how Sanders wants to earn that money. First its a wall street speculation tax. Then its a increase on "billionaires" then its a tax increase on everyone...where is this money coming from? And how long? 10 years? Forever? Dude is just dropping voodoo numbers out here. On top of that fact that none of this addresses capping tuition or any of the enterprising aspects that have made US Universities world leading institutions."

i'm not talking about sander's plan and your thread isn't even about that. this is about free public college in general. to me that means tuition is virtually 0. and we can even talk about living grants and things like that in addition to tuition subsidies. we can talk about different ways to fund it but that's largely political.

Bro...if smaller schools expect to stay alive, they'll have to prove their value to larger universities who will pressure the government and say that a handful of schools aren't returning the same outcomes or offering the same services and resources.

we have the money, we can afford it and the obstacles are more politics than economics or logistics-- these are my main points. there are other legit objections to free public college but they don't conflict with what i've just laid out. unless you have a serious, evidenced-based argument against this we can end this conversation here

Most states already have free tuition for students funded by lottos and other means. A federal oversight of this would hurt the ability for states to tailor to their own needs.