Reality Files returns: Case 2, Peyton Manning the mediocre playoff QB.

Snitchin Splatter

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Go ahead and compare the Jets’, Patriots’, and Colts’ rosters right now. Seriously…I’m waiting. Pay specific attention to the injuries that ravaged the Colts and Patriots, as well as the skill-position players on all three teams. Manning and Brady did a brilliant job in the regular season of making us think that guys like Deion Branch (a glorified possession receiver), Pierre Garcon and Ben Tate (incredibly inconsistent speedsters that occasionally can make big plays), Jacob Tamme, Blair White, and whoever the Patriots’ #3 receiver is (not good at all), and Aaron Hernandez and Rob Gronkowski (potentially great, but right now only good tight ends) were superstars. When you add into account their running backs (maybe they became household names, but they only succeed because of their QBs), the skill players on both teams are, AT BEST, mediocre.

Now factor in the defenses of all three teams. It’s important to note that even before injuries, the Jets’ unit was clearly the best of the three.

Fast forward to the playoffs. You have two teams with almost no legitimate play makers besides their quarterbacks matching up against one of the best and fastest secondaries in all of football. Take away their run game, and what can Peyton and Brady do? Check down. All day. How is Deion Branch supposed to beat Darrelle Revis consistently? Do you really expect Jacob Tamme to run roughshod through the Jets?

No. Individuals cannot win football games.

Mike Lombardi believes that the Colts would have gotten the #1 or #2 pick without Peyton Manning. That would mean that he single-handedly accounted for somewhere between 6 and 8 victories. If Tom Brady hadn’t played out of his mind this year, I think you could make just as strong of a case that the Patriots weren’t a playoff team either. So should we really criticize these guys for not getting it done in the playoffs? As cliche as this is, it has to be said: without them, they wouldn’t have even gotten that far.

John Elway never won a Super Bowl in his prime. Dan Marino never won a Super Bowl. Fran Tarkenton, Jim Kelly, Warren Moon, and others never won it all.

Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Doug Williams, Jim McMahon, etc. have won the Super Bowl. Go ahead and try to build an argument on a guy’s playoff record.

INDIVIDUALS DO NOT WIN FOOTBALL GAMES.

The media just tries to convince you that individuals win football games.

The hardest part about following football is that most of us don’t really understand it. I was what you would call a “jock” in high school and college. I played and watched sports constantly. All of my friends did the same thing, but do you know how many of my friends I actually trust to tell me something about football? One. That’s it.

My friend Eric played QB in high school, and he is currently an assistant coach at the collegiate level. He has legitimate insight into football. Everyone else? They don’t really have any idea.

Seriously, go ahead and build a coherent argument explaining to me why Jeff Saturday is the best center in the game. Give me some insight into a 3-4 zone defense. Describe to me why picking up a blitz out of the backfield is so difficult. You can’t do it. That forces us to blindly agree with what the media tells us.

It’s not like basketball, which we have all played a thousand times. We understand how to run the pick-and-roll, how to box a guy out, even how to read our teammates and give them the ball when they need it.

So when we hear ridiculous comments by Bob Costas that tell us that “Peyton Manning is 9-10 while Mark Sanchez is now 4-1 in the playoffs,” we are accustomed to just taking his word for it that this means something. But what does Bob Costas know about football that I don’t? Isn’t he just an observer as well? It’s not like a former player like Tom Jackson gave us some enlightenment.

But think about what Costas actually said. He is making the subtle insinuation that Mark Sanchez is a better player than Peyton Manning. But really, is there actually someone out there who would rather have The Sanchize than Manning or Brady?

Seriously, right now, picture the Jets with Brady or Manning at the helm. Isn’t that a guaranteed Super Bowl right there? Yes. Why? Because teams win football games…and that team would be terrifying.

To be honest, the 2010 Colts and Patriots were nothing more than than the 2007-20010 Cleveland Cavaliers. Without their stud, they would be nothing. Did we blame LeBron James for losing two series to a Celtics team that had the next four best players on the floor? Of course not. Let’s stop treating Brady and Manning like it’s their fault, especially when more than half of the game rides on their teammates’ shoulders.

The storylines are just too easy to keep rehashing.

Besides seeing your team win, I honestly feel that the number one reason that people care about sports is because it gives them something to argue about. It’s also the best part about football. Your team plays on the weekend, and then allows you to argue about how to fix them all week. No other topic gets our juices flowing like the “Which player is greater” argument.

Unfortunately, the storyline has already been told. Peyton Manning chokes in the clutch. Tom Brady is one of the greatest QBs of all time. Because these topics are already “a given” even writers that are usually refreshingly creative decide that they can’t go against the grain.

Jason Whitlock, my second favorite writer, even came to this conclusion last week: “Peyton Manning has never had a good coach, never had a good offensive coordinator, never had any help. So it’s HIS FAULT that the Colts keep losing. He needs to swallow his pride and ask for help.”

Are you kidding me? And this came from one of the only sports writers that has an opinion that I respect!

He admitted that Peyton Manning has never played on a team or for a coach as good as the Patriots and Bill Belichick…and then he blamed it on Peyton Manning. Does that make any sense at all?

In the normal world, KG goes to the Celtics, wins a title, and we say, “Wow, I wonder what he could have done if he hadn’t played for the Timberwolves for so long.”

In the football world? We come close to making an insight, but then fall back on the safe train of thought. I was so angry when I read that column. I wanted to ask why Jason hated Manning so much. I wanted to know why a team whose 3rd and 4th options were Jacob Tamme and Blair White had ANY BUSINESS even being in the game against the Jets. I even wrote him to ask him about his precious “best ever,” John Elway…a guy that notoriously “choked” over and over in the playoffs until his final two years, both past his prime, when he fortuitously rode the best running back in football and a stellar defense to two straight Super Bowls.

But it’s ok. I know he was just taking the safe way out. Write down that Peyton Manning is a choke artist, and everyone nods in agreement. Have the audacity to say that the Colts lost for a different reason? You are ridiculed, just like I am, every time I try to defend Manning.

Again, I understand I’m biased, but this final story speaks volumes to me. I said there was only one guy I trust when it comes to football, but I was wrong. There are actually two. The other guy is my wife’s grandfather. He has lived in Cleveland for his entire life, and follows football religiously. I was interested in his input concerning the “best QB ever” argument, and I was incredibly surprised when he gave me this answer:

“Otto Graham is, was, and always will be the best QB of all time. He played for ten years, went to ten championship games, and won seven of them. But after him, I have seen a lot of players: Johnny Unitas, Bart Starr, Terry Bradshaw, Dan Marino, Joe Montana, and John Elway. But I have to say, they don’t get any better than Peyton Manning and Tom Brady.”

The final part stunned me. I understood the comment about Otto Graham, because he loves Cleveland. But Brady and Manning? Better than Joe Cool? Better than Marino? Better than Elway?

But then I remembered: INDIVIDUALS DON’T WIN FOOTBALL GAMES.

I know many of you will dismiss this as a Colts’ fan trying to defend his favorite player. That’s fine. You aren’t used to any unique thoughts when it comes to football. But for you frustrated Patriots’ fans trying to find someone to blame today, or for you free thinkers out there, remember: his isn’t basketball, it’s football. And although we don’t understand everything about it, this much we know: teams win football games, not individuals.

Just ask Barry Sanders.
 

Snitchin Splatter

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http://www.midwestsportsfans.com/2011/01/crushing-the-myth/ continued
Go ahead and compare the Jets’, Patriots’, and Colts’ rosters right now. Seriously…I’m waiting. Pay specific attention to the injuries that ravaged the Colts and Patriots, as well as the skill-position players on all three teams. Manning and Brady did a brilliant job in the regular season of making us think that guys like Deion Branch (a glorified possession receiver), Pierre Garcon and Ben Tate (incredibly inconsistent speedsters that occasionally can make big plays), Jacob Tamme, Blair White, and whoever the Patriots’ #3 receiver is (not good at all), and Aaron Hernandez and Rob Gronkowski (potentially great, but right now only good tight ends) were superstars. When you add into account their running backs (maybe they became household names, but they only succeed because of their QBs), the skill players on both teams are, AT BEST, mediocre.

Now factor in the defenses of all three teams. It’s important to note that even before injuries, the Jets’ unit was clearly the best of the three.

Fast forward to the playoffs. You have two teams with almost no legitimate play makers besides their quarterbacks matching up against one of the best and fastest secondaries in all of football. Take away their run game, and what can Peyton and Brady do? Check down. All day. How is Deion Branch supposed to beat Darrelle Revis consistently? Do you really expect Jacob Tamme to run roughshod through the Jets?

No. Individuals cannot win football games.

Mike Lombardi believes that the Colts would have gotten the #1 or #2 pick without Peyton Manning. That would mean that he single-handedly accounted for somewhere between 6 and 8 victories. If Tom Brady hadn’t played out of his mind this year, I think you could make just as strong of a case that the Patriots weren’t a playoff team either. So should we really criticize these guys for not getting it done in the playoffs? As cliche as this is, it has to be said: without them, they wouldn’t have even gotten that far.

John Elway never won a Super Bowl in his prime. Dan Marino never won a Super Bowl. Fran Tarkenton, Jim Kelly, Warren Moon, and others never won it all.

Trent Dilfer, Brad Johnson, Doug Williams, Jim McMahon, etc. have won the Super Bowl. Go ahead and try to build an argument on a guy’s playoff record.

INDIVIDUALS DO NOT WIN FOOTBALL GAMES.

The media just tries to convince you that individuals win football games.

The hardest part about following football is that most of us don’t really understand it. I was what you would call a “jock” in high school and college. I played and watched sports constantly. All of my friends did the same thing, but do you know how many of my friends I actually trust to tell me something about football? One. That’s it.

My friend Eric played QB in high school, and he is currently an assistant coach at the collegiate level. He has legitimate insight into football. Everyone else? They don’t really have any idea.

Seriously, go ahead and build a coherent argument explaining to me why Jeff Saturday is the best center in the game. Give me some insight into a 3-4 zone defense. Describe to me why picking up a blitz out of the backfield is so difficult. You can’t do it. That forces us to blindly agree with what the media tells us.

It’s not like basketball, which we have all played a thousand times. We understand how to run the pick-and-roll, how to box a guy out, even how to read our teammates and give them the ball when they need it.

So when we hear ridiculous comments by Bob Costas that tell us that “Peyton Manning is 9-10 while Mark Sanchez is now 4-1 in the playoffs,” we are accustomed to just taking his word for it that this means something. But what does Bob Costas know about football that I don’t? Isn’t he just an observer as well? It’s not like a former player like Tom Jackson gave us some enlightenment.

But think about what Costas actually said. He is making the subtle insinuation that Mark Sanchez is a better player than Peyton Manning. But really, is there actually someone out there who would rather have The Sanchize than Manning or Brady?

Seriously, right now, picture the Jets with Brady or Manning at the helm. Isn’t that a guaranteed Super Bowl right there? Yes. Why? Because teams win football games…and that team would be terrifying.

To be honest, the 2010 Colts and Patriots were nothing more than than the 2007-20010 Cleveland Cavaliers. Without their stud, they would be nothing. Did we blame LeBron James for losing two series to a Celtics team that had the next four best players on the floor? Of course not. Let’s stop treating Brady and Manning like it’s their fault, especially when more than half of the game rides on their teammates’ shoulders.

The storylines are just too easy to keep rehashing.

Besides seeing your team win, I honestly feel that the number one reason that people care about sports is because it gives them something to argue about. It’s also the best part about football. Your team plays on the weekend, and then allows you to argue about how to fix them all week. No other topic gets our juices flowing like the “Which player is greater” argument.

Unfortunately, the storyline has already been told. Peyton Manning chokes in the clutch. Tom Brady is one of the greatest QBs of all time. Because these topics are already “a given” even writers that are usually refreshingly creative decide that they can’t go against the grain.

Jason Whitlock, my second favorite writer, even came to this conclusion last week: “Peyton Manning has never had a good coach, never had a good offensive coordinator, never had any help. So it’s HIS FAULT that the Colts keep losing. He needs to swallow his pride and ask for help.”

Are you kidding me? And this came from one of the only sports writers that has an opinion that I respect!

He admitted that Peyton Manning has never played on a team or for a coach as good as the Patriots and Bill Belichick…and then he blamed it on Peyton Manning. Does that make any sense at all?

In the normal world, KG goes to the Celtics, wins a title, and we say, “Wow, I wonder what he could have done if he hadn’t played for the Timberwolves for so long.”

In the football world? We come close to making an insight, but then fall back on the safe train of thought. I was so angry when I read that column. I wanted to ask why Jason hated Manning so much. I wanted to know why a team whose 3rd and 4th options were Jacob Tamme and Blair White had ANY BUSINESS even being in the game against the Jets. I even wrote him to ask him about his precious “best ever,” John Elway…a guy that notoriously “choked” over and over in the playoffs until his final two years, both past his prime, when he fortuitously rode the best running back in football and a stellar defense to two straight Super Bowls.

But it’s ok. I know he was just taking the safe way out. Write down that Peyton Manning is a choke artist, and everyone nods in agreement. Have the audacity to say that the Colts lost for a different reason? You are ridiculed, just like I am, every time I try to defend Manning.

Again, I understand I’m biased, but this final story speaks volumes to me. I said there was only one guy I trust when it comes to football, but I was wrong. There are actually two. The other guy is my wife’s grandfather. He has lived in Cleveland for his entire life, and follows football religiously. I was interested in his input concerning the “best QB ever” argument, and I was incredibly surprised when he gave me this answer:

“Otto Graham is, was, and always will be the best QB of all time. He played for ten years, went to ten championship games, and won seven of them. But after him, I have seen a lot of players: Johnny Unitas, Bart Starr, Terry Bradshaw, Dan Marino, Joe Montana, and John Elway. But I have to say, they don’t get any better than Peyton Manning and Tom Brady.”

The final part stunned me. I understood the comment about Otto Graham, because he loves Cleveland. But Brady and Manning? Better than Joe Cool? Better than Marino? Better than Elway?

But then I remembered: INDIVIDUALS DON’T WIN FOOTBALL GAMES.

I know many of you will dismiss this as a Colts’ fan trying to defend his favorite player. That’s fine. You aren’t used to any unique thoughts when it comes to football. But for you frustrated Patriots’ fans trying to find someone to blame today, or for you free thinkers out there, remember: his isn’t basketball, it’s football. And although we don’t understand everything about it, this much we know: teams win football games, not individuals.

Just ask Barry Sanders.
 

Snitchin Splatter

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If you really think Peyton has played better in the playoffs then Brady then you are a certified idiot.

Then the NFL's standard of measuring QB performance is idiotic, because that's exactly what it says, That Peyton performs better in the playoffs

I'm gonna keep posting articles shytting on you and everyone who believes the ducktales in the OP for fun though
 

GzUp

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If actually watching games and making up your own mind based of what you see rather than being a sheep and going along with whatever the popular narrative is=:cape: then so be it.
Bro ive been watching football heavy in those times.... im bills fan so i would root for peyton to beat brady and to show he was the better qb.... year after year i would see this dude just choke and play like shyt... i dont hate payton, he just is not good in the playoffs and chokes.... Great player in the regular season.
 

Snitchin Splatter

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Perhaps the greatest article series EVER disproving the Peyton chokes in playoffs and Tom is better LIE

http://www.coltsauthority.com/2012-archives/march/the-clutch-enigma-peyton-manning-part-i.html

The stans will have no response to this or the thorough crushing of numbers and analyzing, believe me

THE CLUTCH ENIGMA: PEYTON MANNING, PART I
Written by Kyle J. Rodriguez on 27 March 2012.

After taking a long look at four of the best clutch quarterbacks of this era, or at least, quarterbacks known for being clutch, we conclude our series with the one and only Peyton Manning. With Manning now fully in the rear-view mirror, its a perfect time to look back at Manning's career with the Colts. While in Indianapolis, Manning often was labeled as a "regular season" quarterback who couldn't get it done in the playoffs. Is this true? How does Manning hold up to the traditional "playoff quarterbacks" like Tom Brady, Eli Manning, and Ben Roethlisberger, or less well known playoff guru Drew Brees?

Reg. SeasonGamesComp. %Yds/AttemptYds/GameTD%Int. %Sack %Rating
19981656.70%6.50233.694.52%4.87%3.69%71.2
19991662.10%7.76258.444.88%2.81%2.56%90.7
20001662.52%7.73275.815.78%2.63%3.38%94.7
20011662.71%7.55258.194.75%4.20%5.03%84.1
20021666.33%7.11262..504.57%3.21%3.75%88.8
20031666.96%7.54266.695.12%1.77%3.08%99
20041667.61%9.17284.819.86%2.01%2.55%121.1
20051667.33%8.27234.196.18%2.21%3.62%104.1
20061664.99%7.89274.815.57%1.62%2.45%101
20071665.44%7.84252.506.02%2.72%3.92%98
20081666.85%7.21250.134.86%2.16%2.46%95
20091668.83%7.88281.255.78%2.80%1.72%99.9
20101666.27%6.92293.754.86%2.50%2.30%91.9
Totals20864.24%7.60
263.60
5.53%2.75%3.10%94.9
One of the things I love about Peyton is his Sack Rate. By far the best among the quarterbacks surveyed, Brees is the next closest at 3.7%. Brady and Eli both sit at 4.7%, while Roethlisberger is well over eight percent. That's why Manning's Net Yards/Attempt are the only one over 7.0 for this group.

Fun Fact: Manning's Sack Rate of 3.1% is 2nd all time to Steve Walsh, a journeyman quarterback who only started 38 games in the NFL, and also backed up Manning in 1999.

But regular season isn't why we're here:

PlayoffsGamesComp. %Yds/AttemptYds/GameTD%Int. %Sack %Rating
19980-------
1999145.24%5.402270%0%0%62.3
2000153.13%6.061943.13%0%0%82.0
20010-------
2002145.16%4.421370%6.45%0%70.3
2003365.05%8.913068.74%3.88%4.63%106.4
2004272.00%9.283485.33%2.67%2.60%107.4
2005157.89%7.632902.63%0%11.63%90.9
2006463.40%6.76258.51.96%4.58%3.77%70.5
2007168.75%8.384026.25%4.17%0%97.7
2008159.52%7.383102.38%0%2.33%90.4
2009367.97%7.47318.674.69%1.56%3.03%99.0
2010169.23%8.652253.85%0%3.70%
108.7
Totals1963.09%7.51283.634.04%2.65%3.23%88.4
It's very clear that Manning's playoff numbers are nowhere near his incredible regular season numbers. Unlike Drew Brees, who has done a fantastic job of keeping his playoff numbers at or above his regular season numbers, Manning has a clear drop in production, with a six-point drop in rating, largely due to a percentage and a half drop in touchdown percentage, and slightly worse completion percentage, YPA, and Sack Rate. Manning has, however, done a surprisingly good job of lowering his interception rate during the postseason, albeit only a tenth of a percent.

Where do Manning's totals fall in our clutch quarterback posse? Well, Manning is second only to Drew Brees in completion percentage (66%) and yards/game (323). He is third in Yards/Attempt, behind Brees and Roethlisberger, but with sacks taken into account (as they would be in N Y/A) Manning would certainly pass Roethlisberger, and likely Brees as well. Manning is fourth in interception rate, way ahead of Roethlisberger, but slightly behind Eli and Brady (Brees kills everyone here). Manning is last in touchdown rate, with Brees again well ahead of the pack. In playoff quarterback rating though, Manning is third, just behind Eli and way behind Brees.

The most concerning piece of information among these statistics is Manning's touchdown rate, which is by far the biggest drop in his regular season vs. playoff performances, as well as the only place where Manning is lacking in comparison to the other four quarterbacks. While Manning gets plenty of yards per attempt, those attempts don't turn into touchdowns nearly enough.
 

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http://www.coltsauthority.com/2012-archives/march/the-clutch-enigma-peyton-manning-part-i.html continued

Why is this? Well, I believe the answer has several parts.

First, Manning's playoff performance can't be taken as a whole. Manning's performance in the playoffs, at it's most basic level, can be broken down into two parts: 1998-2002 and 2003-present. Although it may seem like I'm simply trying to take out Manning's worst years, I assure you that my intentions are pure. Manning is the only quarterback in this group to have a trend like this. Manning's first five years in the league are clearly far inferior to his last five, both in the post season and the regular season. Manning was awful in the playoffs in 1999-2000, and 2002, but since then he has been one of the best in the league during the postseason. Look at how drastically different Manning's career looks in retrospect:

Regular SeasonGamesComp. %Yds/AttemptYds/GameTD%Int. %Sack %Rating
2003-201112866.77%7.79267.275.94%2.23%2.72%100.7
And the playoffs during that time:

PlayoffsGamesComp. %Yds/AttemptYds/GameTD %Int. %Sack %Rating
2003-20111665.747.88301.944.57%2.77%3.77%93.4
While there is still an obvious drop from the regular season to the postseason, this gives Manning's work over his career a much better picture, in my opinion, than the overall numbers. While Manning only played in three playoff games in his first five years in the league, it created a stigma among the media that Manning was a poor playoff quarterback (fairly, because he was during those five years). Unfortunately, over the last nine years he's been one of the best in the league during the post season, I'd say only Brees has out performed him overall.

But, that key statistic, touchdown rate, while much closer to his peers now, is still the worst among the five quarterbacks, dragging down his overall rating. Manning gets a lot of yards, and very efficiently (Brees gets more yards in the postseason, but Manning is more efficient), but it hasn't translated into scores as often as it should have. While looking at the bulk of Manning's career in proper context has helped us get part of the way there, Manning is still lacking.

The reason why lies in the context of the games themselves.

First, Manning has faced far superior defenses during his time in the league. Let's take a look at the defenses the quarterbacks have faced in the playoffs:

Player
Opponent's Average Defensive Ranking (Passer Rating)

Opponent's Average Passer Rating Allowed

Opponent's Average Defensive Scoring Rank
Opponent's Average Score Allowed
P. Manning*7.0071.586.8817.48
E. Manning8.2776.659.4518.85
Brady11.4177.0410.5918.97
Roethlisberger11.9378.349.3618.61
Brees12.6779.2611.5619.51
*As stated above, we're just talking 2003-2010 here. The total numbers, including 1999-2002, bring Manning's averages up, but just slightly. He is still easily ahead in all categories. But, since we're just looking at that period now, I only listed the numbers from that year.

Overall, Manning has faced much tougher defenses during his trips to the playoffs. The difference is actually quite astounding, especially with a player like Drew Brees, who has faced much easier defenses, and feasted upon them. He has faced several top notch defenses (2011 49ers, 2006 Bears), and has put up solid numbers. But, they were nowhere near his average playoff numbers, and his team lost both games.

Manning, on the other hand, has faced twelve top ten defenses out of his 16 games from 2003-2010 (both in scoring and passer rating), most of which were in the top five (Seven in passer rating and nine in scoring). Against those defenses, he has done pretty well, having great games against the 2010 and 2009 Jets and 2007 Chargers. He really only had two bad playoff games from 2003-2010: against the 2003 and 2004 Patriots, who had the number one rated defense in 2003, and another top five one in 2004.

You could point to Manning's low 39.6 game against the 2006 Ravens as well, but that game was wonderfully played by Manning, an incredible chess match against the #1 defense that year (and the best scoring defense out of any in this sample, allowing just 12.6 points per game).

As telling as those defensive numbers are, there is another contributing factor to Manning's low touchdown numbers in the playoffs: drive context.

Colts Authority's Scott Kacsmar has done some fantastic work on clutch quarterback play, and last year compiled a tremendous group of quarterback drive statistics for the playoffs that is quite telling, especially when it comes to Peyton Manning. Although these statistics do not include 2011, they are helpful nonetheless. In the group, Kacsmar charted two dozen quarterbacks over the last thirty years.

Some of the facts that are relevent here:

  • Manning has had the worst starting field position of every quarterback surveyed. Combining that with the best defenses faced, and you get a very difficult time of scoring.
  • Despite playing those tougher defenses, Manning was second among the quarterbacks in yards per drive, easily topping the other four quarterbacks in this study. Brees was second, then Roethlisberger, Brady, and Eli.
  • The worst field position of any of the 314 games in the study was the 2008 Wild Card game in San Diego, where the Colts average starting field position was their own 15. This explains why the Colts only scored 17 points against a defense that wasn't that great (Manning still posted a 90.3 rating).
  • The second worst game was the 2009 Super Bowl against the Saints, where again the Colts only scored 17 points.
  • Manning's average touchdown drives have been 70.6 yards, second longest in Kacsmar's study, and longest among the five quarterbacks here.
This just goes to show that Manning has faced a much longer field in the playoffs than his competitors, which helps explain why his scoring percentage is lower.

Combining this with the defenses faced shows us that Manning has really done an incredible job in the playoffs. I'm not sure if you can push him past Drew Brees, simply because Brees has never had a truly bad game, although he has had a limited sample and faced easier defenses. But Manning, at least from 2003-2011, has been a simply wonderful playoff quarterback, despite facing very difficult circumstances. I would definitely put him ahead of Brady and Roethlisberger, and Eli, until he proves that his playoff stats are more than just streaky performances.
 

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We're not done yet, incase you thought the Peyton chokes and Brady soars in Playoffs myth wasnt 6 feet under yet

http://www.coltsauthority.com/2012-archives/april/the-clutch-enigma-peyton-manning-part-ii.html Part 2

Two weeks ago, I began the fifth and final part to the Clutch Enigma study, a look atPeyton Manning's playoff statistics.


As many Colts' fans have been screaming for years, Manning has been one of the best overall playoff quarterbacks in the league over the past few years, with the 2009 run being especially impressive. Only Drew Brees has had better overall playoff statistical performances, and only Brees and Little Brother have better margins between their playoff performances and their regular season statistics.

Of course, we also explored some reasons why Manning's excellent playoff statistics haven't led to more wins (Manning has the worst playoff win percentage of the five QBs). First, Manning has by far faced the better pass defenses in the playoffs, both in scoring defenses and passer rating. Second, Manning has, in general, played in much worse contexts than the other five quarterbacks, such as having the worst average starting field position of any quarterback in the playoffs in the last thirty years. Both of these numbers have led to Manning's touchdown percentages being much worse in the playoffs than in the regular season, while his other statistics stay relatively the same.

But one of the most important trends we took out of Manning's playoff data was his relative transformation after the 2002 season. From 1998 to 2002, Manning was pretty bad in the playoffs, and as we'll see, pretty bad in clutch situations in general. But from 2003 on, Manning has been a very good playoff (and clutch) quarterback, but his stigma originating from his first five years in the league has been tough to shake. As we'll see, Manning went through a similar change in clutch situations overall.

Here are Manning's situational passer ratings (click for larger image):



As we've discussed before, the most important number to look at here is Manning's numbers in the 4th Quarter w/in 7 (4QW7) category. Manning struggled early in his career, but since 2002, his lowest number has been 84.4, which took place in 2010. In fact, Manning has only had two years where he's been under 90 in this category, and only three years where he's been under 95. Overall, he's been fantastic, only Brees has a better rating than Manning's 88.7 for his career (89.3).

But what we are looking for here is the trend. When did Manning become a clutch quarterback? Playoff statistics would tell us 2002, but the data here points to 2001. (Click for larger image)



Obviously, Manning has become a better quarterback in just about every area since 2001, but the biggest statistical jump is his 4QW7 difference, where he averaged nearly 30 points higher from 2002-2010 than he did during the first four years of his career. During those first four years, Manning's average quarterback rating went down over 17 points during clutch situations, but since 2002, it's
barely dropped at all. In fact, his -1.84 would be second only to Eli Manning's +1.7. Peyton's 4QW7 rating of 98.02 would easily be the best of the five, with everybody else being under 80.

"Wait a minute!" you say. "You can't just pick and choose where you take Manning's stats from. If you do something like that for all the quarterbacks, they're stats will look a lot better too. Everybody improves with experience."

Nope.

Even when you do something like that for the other quarterbacks, only Brees comes close to Manning's 4QW7 rating of 98.

Tom Brady has no obvious break where we can make a comparison, but one place that would make sense would be from 2007-2011, easily his best years as a pro. In the six seasons before 2007, Brady never had a season rating above 95, and only had two above 90. Since 2007, Brady has only had a season rating under 105 once: a 96.2 in 2009 (remember, 2008 is omitted for our purposes). But, in that time frame, Brady's clutch performances haven't really improved all that much. His overall QB rating averaged at about 88.5, while his total QB rating since 2007 has averaged at 107.5, easily his peak years. But his 4QW7 ratings only improve slightly, as he averaged 81.08 before 2007, and 85.4 since then.

Eli Manning also has no discernible trends, but he has been known as "clutch" since 2007, where he led the underdog Giants to an unlikely Super Bowl Victory. However, his numbers since 2007 aren't all that impressive either (89.5 4QW7 rating). He has certainly improved tremendously since 2007 though: from 2004-2006, Eli's total QB rating averaged 69.4, as opposed to an 86.3 since 2007. His 4QW7 numbers have improved dramatically as well, going from 74.4 to 89.5. Still, an 89.5 doesn't beat Big Brother.

Ben Roethlisberger has no trends whatsoever, with his 4QW7 ratings being not so great. He had two seasons over 100: 2004 and 2007. Between those years he had an 83.3 and 55.5, and since 2007 heas had three years hovering around 80, and one good year in 2009 (98.2). It's all over the place for Roethlisberger, and for now, his 87.7 4QW7 rating for his career is pretty accurate.

Drew Brees is the only other quarterback in which a clear, impressive trend emerges, and it's linked with his move from San Diego to New Orleans, where Sean Payton's system has allowed Brees to rack up incredible statistics. While in San Diego, Brees' average season was a 83.8 QB rating, as compared to an average of 98.8 in New Orleans. His 4QW7 ratings have improved as well, from 78.6 to 96.4. While the dropoff from total to 4QW7 hasn't improved nearly as dramatically as Peyton's did (from -5.15 to -2.4), it still has improved to an astounding number. Nevertheless, Manning still edges out Brees in both total 4QW7 ratings (Manning: 98.02 vs. Brees: 96.4) and in drop off (Manning: -1.8 vs. Brees: -2.4).

In short, Manning's clutch performances since 2001 have simply been statistically unmatched. While Eli has been the only quarterback to actually raise his performances during clutch situations, Peyton's overall play has been far superior. Of course, as years go on, these lists could change, as Peyton, Brees, and Brady get older and Eli and Roethlisberger come into their prime.

While this type of data and study isn't the end all be all by any means (I'll be conducting some other research throughout the summer on the topic), it still is fascinating how well Peyton Manning stands up to his contempararies, especially ones who are known for their "clutchness."
 

FTBS

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Bro ive been watching football heavy in those times.... im bills fan so i would root for peyton to beat brady and to show he was the better qb.... year after year i would see this dude just choke and play like shyt... i dont hate payton, he just is not good in the playoffs and chokes.... Great player in the regular season.


I am not gonna deny that he's had his share of chokes (SB vs. Saints, last year) and I won't hesitate to call them on it however most of those L's have been about things outside of his control and most of his teams haven't really been built for playoff football. There is a reason teams like the Steelers and Giants and Ravens have had the playoff success that they have had the last few years and it's not because their QB was better. Playoff football is a different animal and if your squad ain't built for it, it don't matter how good you are as a QB ex. Thomas Edward Patrick Brady.
 

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When you make a title like "Reality Files" there is a clear implication that you are saying something that hasn't been said or goes against the popular narrative. That's his actual reputation. :heh: He's known as a guy who fades come playoff time. What's next "Reality Files: MJ is GOAT"? or "Reality Files: McNabb choked in that SB".

I always :laff: whenever people talk about Flacco's playoff wins. 4 of those wins came with him passing for < 200 yds including one game where he passed for 34. And they all came with a great defense. He's 2-1 in the playoffs against Brady. Eli is 2-0. Guess they are better than Brady. :leon:

And Brady's playoff QB rating is actually lower than Mannings and he's had some very Manning like results the last few years. What happened? Did he fall off or has he just not been as fortunate as he was early on.

If you really are interested in reality Peyton has been extremely unfortunate in the playoffs. Great defense, other players stepping up, and flat out luck pretty much go hand and hand with winning in the playoffs and Mr. Manning hasn't had the luxury of any of those things for the most part. Just look at the last two L's. The Jets offense (not exactly the greatest show on turf) went right down the field for the GW FG in the last minute after Peyton's reciever dropped a pass that ices the game. Last year we saw probably the worst defensive lapse late in a game ever. However I know it's more fun to put it all on him as if it's not pretty much :deadhorse: at this point so :manny: carry on.

Have no fear, this thread is done now :heh:

I had to drop that napalm bomb on em
 
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But is QB rating in the post season is better than Brady's, so does that mean y'alls god is a BAD playoff QB if Peyton is mediocre?? :ohhh:

See that's what happens when you only consider one star

Look at Bradys record wins and game winning drives and yoi get the whole picture
 

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See that's what happens when you only consider one star

Look at Bradys record wins and game winning drives and yoi get the whole picture

But Peyton has more game winning drives and record wins than Brady :ohhh:

And most of Brady's signature playoff "winning drives" consisted of him driving the ball 30 yards to let the greatest kicker of all time win the game :ohhh:

When he actually had to score a touchdown you get game ending INT's like against the Colts in 06 or Broncos in years prior or 3 bad passes to a wide open randy moss in 2007 :ohhh:
 

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I am not gonna deny that he's had his share of chokes (SB vs. Saints, last year) and I won't hesitate to call them on it however most of those L's have been about things outside of his control and most of his teams haven't really been built for playoff football. There is a reason teams like the Steelers and Giants and Ravens have had the playoff success that they have had the last few years and it's not because their QB was better. Playoff football is a different animal and if your squad ain't built for it, it don't matter how good you are as a QB ex. Thomas Edward Patrick Brady.

i agree with most of it.... its a team sport..... But i would add that peyton had a lot of opportunities to set up a winning drive or just to put up some points during games.... this dude was just too much night and day... i love when players step up there game in the playoffs, i really admire it in basketball, thats another reason why i hated peja so much.. this dude sucked so bad in the offs that he cost the kings some titles... and on elie driving his team for game winning drives, elie rises in those moments.... peyton not so much.
 
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But Peyton has more game winning drives and record wins than Brady :ohhh:

And most of Brady's signature playoff "winning drives" consisted of him driving the ball 30 yards to let the greatest kicker of all time win the game :ohhh:

When he actually had to score a touchdown you get game ending INT's like against the Colts in 06 or 3 bad passes to a wide open randy moss in 2007 :ohhh:

Oh look a Peyton Stan relying on regular season stats j. a discussion about his playoff struggles
 

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Oh look a Peyton Stan relying on regular season stats j. a discussion about his playoff struggles

every example I listed in that quotes was from the playoffs what are you talking about :dead:

Infact while we're on it, Peyton led the biggest comeback in Conference Championship game history. (Or caused the biggest choke depending on how you want to spin it :troll:) Against Brady, In the Playoffs :ohhh:

Oh And the Colts spanked the fukk out of the 49'ers this year :usure:
 
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