Remember when they said, Spoelstra is only as good as Lebron makes him?

[HiphopRelated]

This.

Doc Rivers would destroy Spo. Rivers had them out of timeout set plays, while Miami would simply give it to LeBron or Wade and tell em go.

During the regular season Thibs would give Spo major problems.

Indy competed with Miami far more than they should have. fukking Vogel was doing some great coaching in 2012 and 2013 against Miami.

This doesnt mean Spo is not good. But he had a ways to go. Good for him improving.

What utter shyt.

1st of all Doc Rivers has one series win vs. Spo and that's when he was facing Wade and spare parts. Y'all are the jokers that think every good play is the players and every bad play is Spo.

During the regular season....the regular season doesn't matter back then, it does now. The Nets swept the Heat last year, I guess Kidd > Spo or maybe Spo wasn't pushing players in December.

Win 4 regular season games, win 1 game in the playoff series

To try and discredit the coaching performance with Bosh out is some true sucker shyt. Haven't even heard anybody question that before, but

 

[ReggieFlare]

Then he'd be called a soft shook bytch...see 2011 Finals. Both dudes had more than enough room to operate while Bron was playing hot potato and he was still giving 18, 7,7. We can't question dude's heart and will to take over AND say dude took over and reduced others to ineffective roles. Fact is injury and straight up ness had more to do with those guys reduced roles that Bron. When Wade was healthy he and Bron gave teams fits on both ends and Bosh wasn't just camped out shooting 3s the whole time.

I never questioned his will or heart

I don't think it was about him choosing to take over either; I believe the team just felt like if they were going to win, Bron had to be the guy. As a result, Wade, who was always at his best when playing with the ball had to adopt a new style of play. Injuries didn't help, but even last year in the playoffs when Wade was healthier, he wasn't as sharp as he is now and I believe it had much to do with his altered role on the team.

The situation with Bosh was just a result of him being the third option. No, he wasn't always camped out shooting threes, but he's looking much better now than when Bron was there.

 

[Jplaya2023]

What adjustment to be made was going to stop the Spurs from winning?

He played the same over aggressive double on the perimeter give up open 3 defense the ENTIRE series and as a result the spurs won in record fashion.

He could've tried a different scheme, mixed man and zone, not be so aggressive defending pick and rolls which led to hard doubles resulting in ball movement for open 3's. Lebron was tired and worn out. Doing something else would've sufficed. But he made no adjustment.

 

[FTBS]

I never questioned his will or heart

I don't think it was about him choosing to take over either; I believe the team just felt like if they were going to win, Bron had to be the guy. As a result, Wade, who was always at his best when playing with the ball had to adopt a new style of play. Injuries didn't help, but even last year in the playoffs when Wade was healthier, he wasn't as sharp as he is now and I believe it had much to do with his altered role on the team.

The situation with Bosh was just a result of him being the third option. No, he wasn't always camped out shooting threes, but he's looking much better now than when Bron was there.

Didn't say you did. Notice I said "we" and I have never done that (outside of 2011 Finals) either. I just take issue with double speak and many of the criticisms Bron in MIA are based off of double speak.

Wade played his ass off in an altered role in 2010/11 especially against Boston. He has shown flashes in the succeeding years as well. His game is based on explosion and athleticism and injuries really robbed him of that. Why he waited until Bron was gone to cut weight will always be a mystery to me.

3rd options are supposed to get in where they fit in and do the dirty work. Bosh has said he's not built for that banging in the post aka what the Heat sorely needed the most so he might as well get out of the way and let the guys who are willing to work work . He looked better in TOR as well, but unless the team does any better or at least comes close to what they did with Bron what does that matter?

 

[DaRock]

He played the same over aggressive double on the perimeter give up open 3 defense the ENTIRE series and as a result the spurs won in record fashion.

He could've tried a different scheme, mixed man and zone, not be so aggressive defending pick and rolls which led to hard doubles resulting in ball movement for open 3's. Lebron was tired and worn out. Doing something else would've sufficed. But he made no adjustment.

Yeah man I couldn't understand why the Heat played that way on every possession, with every player...you had players who were not even trying to be aggressive or turn the corner on screen & rolls and the HEAT were still trapping high screen and rolls...it's like he played the perfect defense for the Spurs....the Spurs thrive off ball movement...I'm like damn make them go one on one and score over you...stop trapping and making it easier for them to move the ball for wide open shots...

 

[Roadie pipeher]

Spo underachieved when he coached the big 3. They reached half their potential with only winnign 2 titles in 4 tries.

Just saying shyt so that you hope you it can stick huh?

 

[Jplaya2023]

Just saying shyt so that you hope you it can stick huh?

With the talent they had they should've won 4 rings. That's all im saying

Had Pat been coaching the team like i said he should've, they would be in a position to 5 peat.

Just the facts

 

[Kd35brah]

Can it be Spo has got better?

Are we forgetting how clueless Spo was that first year?

Did we forget Doc Rivers and even Indy's coach giving it to Spo in 2012. It taking LeBron going beast mode to save that team's ass?

Spo has got a helluva lot better though. Great to see a coach improve.

Bruh, Wade dropped 41 to close out the series....

 

[MikelArteta]

spo is a good coach but its not like the heat are straight chump status

wade lost weight and looks healthy
bosh when he was the man in toronto was a 24/10 player not surprising hes putting up them numbers.

its not like luol deng is a chump hes a quality player, and the heat have a good bench especially in teh east thats a good team

but finals?

 

[Draje]

Breh they were facing a Celtics team that went 7 games with the Sixers.

That Indy in 2012 didnt even have Lance and Paul George wasnt as much of a threat as he is today (when healthy obviously)
No doubt Bosh being gone hurt. But Spo had no idea what to do with Bosh those first couple of years anyway. He relied on Shane Battier way too much that series.

He started Dexter fukking Pittman that series.

At the end of the day it was LeBron/Wade not being denied that turned that series around.

I just cant believe people are going to forget Spoelstra's wide eyed look when shyt was going wrong.

Are we going to forget how robotic Spo's coaching style was those first few years of the big 3 era? The lack of creativity, etc.


I admit by 2013 he became a damn good coach.

The championship Celtics also went to 7 with the Hawks and Cavs, the year they won...AND?

The Pacers had a big, tough physical team with a size and reboubding advantage against a team that was much smaller and had TWO injured players.

Lack of creativity? It was trying to find the best mixture for that squad. The Heat were TOP HEAVY as hell, in their first year, and had 3 BALL DOMINANT superstars trying to fit into their offense after having two deal with one ball dominant player in Wade. Not only that but neither of the two were reliable three point shooters, Bosh was most comfortable in the post which clogged the lanes, and they were all guys who typically needed the ball to make things happen for the team.

I'm sorry but you guys are nuts if you don't think Spoelstra's a good offensive coach. He completely revamped his Horns centered offense from the first years of the Big 3 to his free flowing "Pace and Space" offense that he runs now. He had a big role in ushering in the new wave of small ball power forwards that we see across the league nowadays, and completely inverted the typical system of bigs playing inside and wings on the outside. Also, the fact that he played a big role in getting LBJ to embrace bruising smaller matchups in the post along with helping Wade develop into one of the best off-ball cutters and weakside fill guys in the league.

The Heat may have had some of the most talented players in the league running his offense, but he ran some good stuff with those teams and managed to smoothly transition from a heavily structured double high post offense into the read and react spaced out type system from the Heat's latest incarnations. Overall an excellent offensive coach in my mind, because there's not much more you can ask from someone as an offensive leader. He taught his players to open up their toolboxes and fill different roles, and implemented a fast paced style of play that whipped the ball around the perimeter and were disciplined about reversing the ball to attack matchups instead of letting it stick too much which is what's needed in today's league.

People look at coaching as "Oh, who calls the trickiest plays or just putting players in and doing a lineup but it's more to it than that.

 

[Dr. Narcisse]

The championship Celtics also went to 7 with the Hawks and Cavs, the year they won...AND?

The Pacers had a big, tough physical team with a size and reboubding advantage against a team that was much smaller and had TWO injured players.

Lack of creativity? It was trying to find the best mixture for that squad. The Heat were TOP HEAVY as hell, in their first year, and had 3 BALL DOMINANT superstars trying to fit into their offense after having two deal with one ball dominant player in Wade. Not only that but neither of the two were reliable three point shooters, Bosh was most comfortable in the post which clogged the lanes, and they were all guys who typically needed the ball to make things happen for the team.

I'm sorry but you guys are nuts if you don't think Spoelstra's a good offensive coach. He completely revamped his Horns centered offense from the first years of the Big 3 to his free flowing "Pace and Space" offense that he runs now. He had a big role in ushering in the new wave of small ball power forwards that we see across the league nowadays, and completely inverted the typical system of bigs playing inside and wings on the outside. Also, the fact that he played a big role in getting LBJ to embrace bruising smaller matchups in the post along with helping Wade develop into one of the best off-ball cutters and weakside fill guys in the league.

The Heat may have had some of the most talented players in the league running his offense, but he ran some good stuff with those teams and managed to smoothly transition from a heavily structured double high post offense into the read and react spaced out type system from the Heat's latest incarnations. Overall an excellent offensive coach in my mind, because there's not much more you can ask from someone as an offensive leader. He taught his players to open up their toolboxes and fill different roles, and implemented a fast paced style of play that whipped the ball around the perimeter and were disciplined about reversing the ball to attack matchups instead of letting it stick too much which is what's needed in today's league.

People look at coaching as "Oh, who calls the trickiest plays or just putting players in and doing a lineup but it's more to it than that.

2011 - The Heat were awful in late game situations. When I say lacked creativity I'm talking about this. Most resulted in LeBron dribbling at the top of the key and going one on one. Spo had no "get a quick basket" play in 2011. Against Carlisle SPo had no clue what to do when Dallas threw the zone at them. He would either have LeBron standing in the corner or standing at the top of the key. They never attempted to run any kind of pick and roll between LeBron/Wade that series as well. The biggest mistake that series was defensively. He put 270 pound LeBron James on Jason Terry and had him chasing him off screens while logging 45 mins. That was ridiculous. He waited till the last game of the series to finally bench Mike Bibby.

It wasnt until the following year that they added more quick hitter plays between LeBron/Wade. A YEAR.

I'm not saying he was bad, he was solid


I'm not going to act like 2012 playoffs was some great coaching job. LeBron/Wade played at an all time high in 2012 against the Pacers in games 4 to 6. LeBron had one of the greatest playoff runs and dominant game 6 performances ever. Truth be told. The Heat got the best possible matchup in the Thunder and Scott Brooks awful ass.
2013 he was a damn good coach and has been since . I've said that.

But I'm not going to have some revisionist history like Spo didnt have a shytload of trouble those first two years. I cant

I just agree to disagree breh

 

[Draje]

He played the same over aggressive double on the perimeter give up open 3 defense the ENTIRE series and as a result the spurs won in record fashion.

He could've tried a different scheme, mixed man and zone, not be so aggressive defending pick and rolls which led to hard doubles resulting in ball movement for open 3's. Lebron was tired and worn out. Doing something else would've sufficed. But he made no adjustment.

The first two games of the series were close as hell and the Heat lost the first game on a surprise cramp from hell.

Spo had little reason to change the over aggressive defense because their defense has consistently won them games and their frantic pace is what caught the Spurs off-guard when they played the year before. Going into a slow, defensive set is tantamount to death against the Spurs (Points to the Grizzlies getting absolutely demolished the year before)x

What happened was things like Kawhi going absolutely insane and hitting impossible shots with Lebron on him when game 3 took off. Kawhi got energized and pumped, which led to him being more aggressive than usual which surprised Lebron who became less willing to help off Kawhi or play the lanes as comfortably as he normally he does which led to crisp passing from the Spurs and good shots started being hit.

You got a tired D-Wade chasing Danny Green across a team that sets some of the best picks in the NBA, a Chamers who was unable to score and losing confidence against one of the best offensive PG in the NBA when it comes to attacking, you had great size underneath the basket in Duncan and Splitter, and you had a fresh Manu coming into a tired Wade, an old Allen, anunconfident Chalmers, or Cole to guard him.

All that plus Diaw being able to both run the offense from the post and force constant screens led to the death of the Heat.

Nothing the Heat could have done was stopping that. The Spurs just clicked when the Heat flamed out. It happens.

 

[Luke Cage]

spo is a good coach but its not like the heat are straight chump status

wade lost weight and looks healthy
bosh when he was the man in toronto was a 24/10 player not surprising hes putting up them numbers.

its not like luol deng is a chump hes a quality player, and the heat have a good bench especially in teh east thats a good team

but finals?

we still got three legit all stars in our starting lineup and we play in the East.
why people expected us to be a lottery team i don't know. Our bench is deeper now than it was last three season.
outside of lebron all we lost was old players hurt players and d league players, (battier,allen,lewis, beasley,oden,pittman, jones, miller etc)
and we replaced them with solid rotational players.
not having lebron will hurt during the playoffs, but we're probably a better regular season team right now than we used to be.

 

[MikelArteta]

we still got three legit all stars in our starting lineup and we play in the East.
why people expected us to be a lottery team i don't know. Our bench is deeper now than it was last three season.
outside of lebron all we lost was old players hurt players and d league players, (battier,allen,lewis, beasley,oden,pittman, jones, miller etc)
and we replaced them with solid rotational players.
not having lebron will hurt during the playoffs, but we're probably a better regular season team right now than we used to be.

yup plus bosh and wade are motivated
bosh did lead a bum ass raptors team to a division title with guys like rasho nesterovic, andrea bargnani, anthony parker, tj ford

 

[Draje]

2011 - The Heat were awful in late game situations. When I say lacked creativity I'm talking about this. Most resulted in LeBron dribbling at the top of the key and going one on one. Spo had no "get a quick basket" play in 2011. Against Carlisle SPo had no clue what to do when Dallas threw the zone at them. He would either have LeBron standing in the corner or standing at the top of the key. They never attempted to run any kind of pick and roll between LeBron/Wade that series as well. The biggest mistake that series was defensively. He put 270 pound LeBron James on Jason Terry and had him chasing him off screens while logging 45 mins. That was ridiculous. He waited till the last game of the series to finally bench Mike Bibby.

It wasnt until the following year that they added more quick hitter plays between LeBron/Wade. A YEAR.

I'm not saying he was bad, he was solid


I'm not going to act like 2012 playoffs was some great coaching job. LeBron/Wade played at an all time high in 2012 against the Pacers in games 4 to 6. LeBron had one of the greatest playoff runs and dominant game 6 performances ever. Truth be told. The Heat got the best possible matchup in the Thunder and Scott Brooks awful ass.
2013 he was a damn good coach and has been since . I've said that.

But I'm not going to have some revisionist history like Spo didnt have a shytload of trouble those first two years. I cant

Lebron / Wade PNR really wasn't important. The Mavs would have just blocked off the pass to Lebron and let Wade score. Their defense was intent on making the rest of the Heat beat them and not let Lebron get confident.

The Mavs pretty much went into as quasi-Zone when Lebron had the ball and went man if Wade had the ball. Lebron stayed back because he was trying to give space for Wade to penetrate and the defense was constantly shifted towards Lebron to stop his drives which is why Wade was getting into the lane at will.

The defensive assignment was more...wrong place, wrong time. Lebron was usually on Stevenson or Marion but Terry started heating up and Lebron had been his lockdown defender throughout that entire playoff run. He had put clamps on Rose and Pierce so it was one of those....I trust my star kinda moments. And you can't put Lebron on Dirk because Dirk is too damn tall and will shoot over you.

Spo put his best defender on the biggest perineter threat. It didn't work out but still ubderstandable.

The success of the 2012 playoffs was a result of changing their game plan, Lebron getting into the post, Wade being stronger at off-ball vutting, and Bosh spacing the floor. All of Spo's improvements to the overall look of the offense was a result of good coaching.,you saying he didn't do much but he did a lot. Lebron's post game and focus on running the offense with Lebron being less of a slasher but more of a big man Magic? Spo.

Bosh providing spacing and working on his mid-range jumper for more room to work with plus letting the best interior defender have to cheat out? Spo. All that stuff was important in the two champuonship rubs